[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[AccidentalDisassembly]

1 minute ago, Streetwind said:

Honestly my (not very experienced) money is on the homesickness timer in this case. If you didn't modify any settings, then ReplacementParts aren't your problem. Since you had the hab timer running, it's even possible that they got grouchy before running out of supplies, just from homesickness/lack of habitation. And perhaps that status doesn't get removed when you turn the option off.

The easiest course of action for you would honestly to launch a crew shuttle to your station, pack these guys into it, and bring them home. The same crew shuttle can carry a replacement crew on the way up.

That seems plausible, turning it off didn't make them magically pop back into action, but they did wake up on reentry to Kerbin. Unfortunately, that was mere moments before their fiery deaths. 

[Streetwind]

...Isn't that a bit of a drastic punishment for poor working condition related insubordination...?

[RoverDude]

Merry Christmas..

[DStaal]

Yum.    (Hmm.  As a lab, does it have science?  Running a couple of experiments on how to get aeroponics working would make sense...)

[Domfluff]

Awesome. Any plans for the specs on that? How does it slot into the overall progression?

[panarchist]

23 hours ago, Streetwind said:

They have no mass and are invisible, but that doesn't mean they are nonfunctional. For example, any recycler part consumes them at a slow rate (about 100 per Kerbal capacity per 5.4 Kerbin years), and since you cannot refill them, that will eventually render the recycler inoperable.

Also, you can configure USI-LS to consume an amount of ReplacementParts together with supplies just to keep Kerbals alive. After the resource is consumed, you need to deorbit the parts because they have become permanently unable to support life. But this is turned off by default, so unless you turned it on yourself, this shouldn't affect you.

Replacement Parts can be replenished from MaterialKits, if an Engineer performs maintenance.  If the engineer is in a Workshop, this happens automatically once a day, so they can, in a sense, be refilled.

[panarchist]

23 hours ago, AccidentalDisassembly said:

I don't think I modified any settings (other than turning off hab effects) from default, but the kerbals nevertheless won't de-tourist. How would I even find out whether everything is set to wear out? I can see wear numbers on things like the science lab, but nothing else, and since the spare parts are invisible, I can't know if they've run out. I'm not sure I see the logic of making them invisible, come to think of it... also did not find anything in the wikis about turning that feature on or off, only reducing the rate of deterioration.

EDIT: Should note that the wear on the science lab etc. is something like 0.4%

If you have UKS installed, then Wear is turned on.  If not, then Wear is off by default unless you set it to on.  On the latest version of USI-LS, you can go into the spiffy new UI screen in the SpaceCenter view, and look for a wear value which is anything other than "0".  "0" means Wear is off.  Anything else means Wear will happen.  Wear only happens if there are Kerbals actively occupying the space, so if your Kerbals are all in the science lab, then that's why Wear isn't at 0.

Streetwind is probably right - it's likely the Homesickness timer - and that information in the latest USI-LS is also present within the UI screens, so it should be easy (now) to see that.

[Streetwind]

1 hour ago, panarchist said:

Replacement Parts can be replenished from MaterialKits, if an Engineer performs maintenance.  If the engineer is in a Workshop, this happens automatically once a day, so they can, in a sense, be refilled.

That's not a feature of USI-LS, though. That's another mod that does it.

I mean, I realize that Kolonization and Life Support are intimately connected, but from a practical viewpoint, they are still bot h stand-alone mods that can be run by themselves.

 

1 hour ago, panarchist said:

If you have UKS installed, then Wear is turned on.  If not, then Wear is off by default unless you set it to on.

Even without UKS, the science lab suffers wear if the recycler component is run. That always consumes ReplacementParts at a slow rate, regardless of your config

[RoverDude]

2 hours ago, Streetwind said:

That's not a feature of USI-LS, though. That's another mod that does it.

I mean, I realize that Kolonization and Life Support are intimately connected, but from a practical viewpoint, they are still bot h stand-alone mods that can be run by themselves.

 

Even without UKS, the science lab suffers wear if the recycler component is run. That always consumes ReplacementParts at a slow rate, regardless of your config

Not quite.  Only if you have your wear amount > 0.  It's off by default.  And the repair mechanic is actually part of core, not UKS.  I leave it off by default tho because there is no way to create new MaterialKits in USI-LS by itself, but you can if you have UKS, MKS-Lite, OSE Workshop, etc.

 

4 hours ago, DStaal said:

Yum.    (Hmm.  As a lab, does it have science?  Running a couple of experiments on how to get aeroponics working would make sense...)

No science, just a greenhouse.

3 hours ago, Domfluff said:

Awesome. Any plans for the specs on that? How does it slot into the overall progression?

Exactly the same as the large Nom O Matic, just a different aesthetic.

[Domfluff]

6 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Exactly the same as the large Nom O Matic, just a different aesthetic.

Awesome, and a form factor which will slot into space stations/launch stacks easier. Cheers!

 

[panarchist]

7 hours ago, Streetwind said:

That's not a feature of USI-LS, though. That's another mod that does it.

I mean, I realize that Kolonization and Life Support are intimately connected, but from a practical viewpoint, they are still bot h stand-alone mods that can be run by themselves.

Right, I get that, you're correct - my point was that if AccidentalDisassembly didn't modify the Wear setting, then UKS is installed, and there are mechanics in there (no pun intended) to change MaterialKits into ReplacementParts.  I can see where the mechanic would be an issue if someone tweaks the value in the UI and UKS or Workshop are not installed, and that's a great point.

[Kerbal Pig]

Is your MKS mod and the Planetary Base mod compatible? I ask because I want MKS and already have the planetary base mod, but am afraid of destroying current bases by removing the planetary base mod.

[RoverDude]

Yup, they are compatible, feel free to mix and match

(Edit) Realized this was in the USI-LS thread.  Only bit I can't speak to is what KPBS does with USI-LS and how that differs from UKS.  So things might get a bit odd if it does fertilizer generation.  Tho I'll be adding some standards for that in the next USI-LS update that balances the Gypsum->Fertilzier path of UKS with an Ore->Fertilizer path for stock.

[autumnalequinox]

I was just thinking "I could really use a stackable nom-omatic" and bam, a beautiful creation emerges like magic from RoverDudes' busy brain.

 

I am starting to grow really attached to the concept of habitation and homesickness.  I used to just RP it (make long duration ships extra big, centrifuge, etc) but now I can't see my game without that feature.
Oh and my USI-LS hardcore mode:  High power consumption (like 0.15/sec per Kerbal) so bring batteries!  And very short time without supplies (about 1 hour).  Just enough time to re-enter in a pod (I assume there is some simple life support systems in command pods).  This forces one to carefully manage supplies and always bring something in the service module.  I also enjoy the idea that O2 production/water cleaning is being performed by ship systems representing the high power consumption.  So far it adds interesting challenge.  Plus everybody dies without supplies and goes tourist when hab or homesickness happens.  So mission planning and resupply is veeeeeery important, which is how I like it.  

Oh and combine with the USI DERP parts and you get a nice tiny fuel cell which is great for those times when the batteries go dry and a planet is in the way of the sun!  

I think I enjoy torturing myself with resource management. 

[panarchist]

On 5/20/2016 at 10:07 AM, RoverDude said:

Yup, they are compatible, feel free to mix and match

(Edit) Realized this was in the USI-LS thread.  Only bit I can't speak to is what KPBS does with USI-LS and how that differs from UKS.  So things might get a bit odd if it does fertilizer generation.  Tho I'll be adding some standards for that in the next USI-LS update that balances the Gypsum->Fertilzier path of UKS with an Ore->Fertilizer path for stock.

The current release of KBPS does not generate fertilizer, and seems to play nice with USI-LS.  The MM file in that mod for USI-LS is pretty standard, implementing Mulch+Fertilizer+ElectricCharge=Supplies, and the Recycler function.  Other than the recyclers being really efficient (75%), it doesn't look like there's anything in there which would be a game-breaker for those using both mods.

Unlike a couple other mods I'm using, like the DarkSideTechnologies Centrifuge, which is an awesome part but which has ridiculous amounts of Supplies listed in the incorporated MM config file.

If any other mod makers are reading this thread, and putting together a USI-LS MM file, I'd strongly encourage you to look at RoverDude's existing OKS Kerbitat and OKS HabRing parts to see what values are in use before setting things like Supplies, Recycler Efficiency, or values like KerbalMonths in ModuleHabitation.  KBPS sets KerbalMonths=37.5 for the Central Hub, (which supports 6 Kerbals) and 13 for the Mk2 Habitat. (Which supports 4) - basically 6 months per Kerbal for the Central Hub and 3.25 months for the Mk2 Hab.  I don't know if those are reasonable values, given that the MKS Kerbitat is set to 3, and the OKS HabRing is set to 6.25.

@RoverDude - Why does the OKS HabRing have a KerbalMonths value of 6.25?  With 10 Kerbals, shouldn't that be higher?

 

[RoverDude]

@panarchist - that's it's bonus.  It already gets a separate bonus for crew capacity.  

Also - there are really clear balance guidelines included with USI-LS

[panarchist]

6 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

@panarchist - that's it's bonus.  It already gets a separate bonus for crew capacity.  

Also - there are really clear balance guidelines included with USI-LS

Other than the 10 KerbalMonths from having 10 seats?

Re: balance guidelines - in the wiki?  I've been cooking up some MM patches for other mods for USI-LS, and I've found great explanations of the mechanics on the wiki, but haven't run across sample values / guidelines anywhere.  Presumably that means I'm not looking in the right place. :-D

[RoverDude]

Look at the Lif support config file - it has comments in it.  Hab ring is low because it's an inflatable - i.e. not very durable.  A rigid structural ring, while harder to launch, would be more massive and have more durability.

[panarchist]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

Look at the Lif support config file - it has comments in it.  Hab ring is low because it's an inflatable - i.e. not very durable.  A rigid structural ring, while harder to launch, would be more massive and have more durability.

Ah - got it, thanks.  Presumably surface habs are going to be higher than orbital habs, since your average Kerbal could go outside and walk around (in gravity), whereas orbital habs have a certain amount of "cabin fever"?

[RoverDude]

Not necessarily.  Guides are there for relative balance

[Phocks]

I have a two Nom o matic 5000 units radially attached to a space station, with fertilizer and mulch. They comsume large amounts of electricity, but don't appear to produce any supplies.

Is there some condition I'm not meeting?

[RoverDude]

Odd... can you toss a screenshot of the craft and your resource panel along with the context menu of the nom o matic?

[Malich]

8 hours ago, Phocks said:

I have a two Nom o matic 5000 units radially attached to a space station, with fertilizer and mulch. They comsume large amounts of electricity, but don't appear to produce any supplies.

Is there some condition I'm not meeting?

How many kerbals are onboard? Are they just eating it as soon as it is produced?

[Phocks]

4 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Odd... can you toss a screenshot of the craft and your resource panel along with the context menu of the nom o matic?

Weird, just loaded up the game, and my supplies are slowly ticking up now. Not sure why it wasn't working before; but it is now.

Does it require mulch to be >1? I think I was at ~0.5 last night.

3 minutes ago, Malich said:

How many kerbals are onboard? Are they just eating it as soon as it is produced?

Last night I had two NOM 5000's with one kerbal. I think I just didn't have enough mulch for it to start; cause it's going now.

[Malich]

Well, as long as they're getting fed and not slowly ticking down to the point at which they rip the command seat out and try chewing on the foam!