[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[gary.townsend]

16 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Odds are they are not producing mulch... so you need to send them some supplies.

sounds like a excrementsty mission....

[Elick320]

48 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Odds are they are not producing mulch... so you need to send them some supplies.

According to the resource screen, the greenhouse is producing supplies normally and mulch is being generated

 

 

Btw loving your rover mod and how modular it is

[apocriva]

14 hours ago, Elick320 said:

Btw loving your rover mod and how modular it is

I'm very excited for an update to support 1.2. Playing with USI-LS really makes the game come together for me!

[goldenpsp]

2 hours ago, apocriva said:

I'm very excited for an update to support 1.2. Playing with USI-LS really makes the game come together for me!

Well you can pretty much expect if it is a @RoverDude mod it will update pretty much when the 1.2 release hits.

[kcs123]

USI mod update might be availabe even before official KSP 1.2. upload finish to distribution servers. Or couple of minutes later

 

[RoverDude]

Pretty much   Technically everything is done other than final MKS configs (working on the Tundra parts now) and because of some of the tweaks I did to the balance guide I use (to balance all things!) I have to go back and tweek the USI-LS bits as well.

[DStaal]

Honestly, how I expect to find out about updates to KSP is by seeing a notification that RoverDude has released a new version of his mods...

[Merkov]

29 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Honestly, how I expect to find out about updates to KSP is by seeing a notification that RoverDude has released a new version of his mods...

Same here. I remember when 1.1.3 launched I was asleep between night shifts, and I woke up to see almost a dozen emails from github saying that there was activity on RoverDude's mods.

34 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Pretty much   Technically everything is done other than final MKS configs (working on the Tundra parts now) and because of some of the tweaks I did to the balance guide I use (to balance all things!) I have to go back and tweek the USI-LS bits as well.

You have mentioned a giant balancing spreadsheet in the past. Is that spreadsheet going to be released with the new versions of USI mods?

[RoverDude]

Yep, once I am 100% sure I am happy with it.  Which means not on day zero.

[Kobymaru]

Once in a while, I'm still having issues of overly hungry Kerbals on scene switches.

I have recyclers and agroponics, which should produce a net output of supplies and fertilizer. And it *does* produce that, when the vessel is loaded in all timewarp settings. When I go to the tracking station however, and timewarp there and come back to the base, I see that parts of the supplies are munched up.

So obviously there's something wonky in the catch-up mechanic, because I believe timewarp with the active vessel and timewarp away from the vessel should produce identical consumption/production.

This is in the old versions, KSP 1.1.3 ; USI-LS 0.4.4, MKS/OKS 0.40.4 ; but assuming that there are no significant code changes there, I think we'll see the same thing in the new versions.

Note that this is not a real bug report yet (this will come some time after the new versions land), more like a question to other users: have you seen similar behaviour?

[mcortez]

Stock catch up mechanics works in roughly 6 hour chunks.  Do you have enough stored for 6 hours of output for each resource?

[Kobymaru]

43 minutes ago, mcortez said:

Stock catch up mechanics works in roughly 6 hour chunks.  Do you have enough stored for 6 hours of output for each resource?

Yes, definitely. Had 1100 units of supplies for 4 kerbals.

[Merkov]

11 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

Yes, definitely. Had 1100 units of supplies for 4 kerbals.

But do you also have enough storage for mulch? With the way catch up works, if you only have a tiny amount of mulch storage, as the game tries to catch up, it will convert large chunks of supplies to mulch, then try to convert that mulch and fertilizer into supplies. If you don't have enough mulch storage, you may run into some losses there as the game dumps "excess" mulch.

[Kobymaru]

4 minutes ago, Merkov said:

But do you also have enough storage for mulch?

 

First, I have to correct myself: I have capacity for 600 Supplies, and 1100 Mulch.

Second, here's an album:

http://imgur.com/a/sU9ST

First picture: +3y262d , full supplies, fertilizer 71

Second picture: +3y357d. Taken immediately after loading, but before (or at the beginning of) catch-up

Third picture: +3y357d. Right after catch- up.

All of my supplies and fertilizer munched up, although I had a net production of everything? That doesn't make sense to me.

4 minutes ago, Merkov said:

With the way catch up works, if you only have a tiny amount of mulch storage, as the game tries to catch up, it will convert large chunks of supplies to mulch, then try to convert that mulch and fertilizer into supplies. If you don't have enough mulch storage, you may run into some losses there as the game dumps "excess" mulch.

Is that how it works? Why though? Wouldn't it be smarter to temporarily unlimit the storage, do the calculations and then clip the storage back to the original limits?

I have a feeling that this might be a stock bug, but a stock bug that's not reproducible without mods. Which makes it impossible to report

[Merkov]

@Kobymaru A couple of things I am noticing in those screenshots. First, it looks like what you're running into is simply a case of you running out of fertilizer, which of course stops production of supplies.

Also, why is your "start" picture at +3y362d, but your after timewarp pictures are at 3y357d? That timer should be counting up, shouldn't it? Was the start screenshot really taken before the other two?

As for why the catch up mechanics work the way they do, I don't know. I assume it's to stop the game from running into ridiculously high numbers in the event that you have a huge amount of production of some kind of resource over a long timewarp period. Basically, like mcortez said, you need enough storage for about 6 hours of output, and this includes for all intermediary resources (like mulch). In stock, the only time you would notice this is if you built a mining vessel with a tiny amount of Ore storage and a large amount of fuel storage.

[RoverDude]

Actually... one of the things I sorted in 1.2 is how catch-up mechanics handle multi-step production chains   So this is something you might see go away in 1.2

[Pthigrivi]

Any chance we'll see ISRU integration without loading MKS? 

Pretty excited for the update man  You guys are killin it. 

[RoverDude]

What do you mean by ISRU integration?

[goldenpsp]

34 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

What do you mean by ISRU integration?

If I had to guess he means a way to mine for resources to make supplies etc without needing MKS

[noob]

Does USI Life Support have a procedural part with the procedural mod like TAC? If so, I'll switch over to using this LS instead.

[Pthigrivi]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

What do you mean by ISRU integration?

Yeah basically the ability to mine Fertilizer somehow. I can config my converter to do it, which isn't a big deal, just curious if there might be something official at some point?

[burner_nn]

Stock ISRU can already do it. If mod's wiki don't lie

[monstah]

4 minutes ago, burner_nn said:

Stock ISRU can already do it. If mod's wiki don't lie

Fertilizer is a USI resource, not a stock one, so I guess not  

[Merkov]

22 minutes ago, burner_nn said:

Stock ISRU can already do it. If mod's wiki don't lie

 

17 minutes ago, monstah said:

Fertilizer is a USI resource, not a stock one, so I guess not  

USI-LS includes a MM patch to allow the 1.25m stock ISRU to produce Fertilizer from Ore, but it is a very inefficient conversion. Note that the larger (original) 2.5m stock ISRU does NOT have this capability.

[Pthigrivi]

24 minutes ago, Merkov said:

 

USI-LS includes a MM patch to allow the 1.25m stock ISRU to produce Fertilizer from Ore, but it is a very inefficient conversion. Note that the larger (original) 2.5m stock ISRU does NOT have this capability.

Oh interesting. I almost never use the the small converter so I hadn't noticed. Not too fussed about the efficiency, I guess I'd just have expected that to be switched? It seemed more intuitive that the larger converter would have more capabilities? 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Pthigrivi