1.0.0 Demo

[UmbralRaptor]

1 hour ago, Findthepin1 said:

Inb4 lock

this is from 2015

Embarrassingly, this thread is probably still relevant, as the demo is still 1.0.x based. And lacks minor features like an engine with thrust vectoring. (The only liquid fuel one is the LV-T30, and it seems like the T-45 and 909 would show a lot more gameplay elements and make getting to the Mün reasonable instead of nigh-impossible)

[Alshain]

33 minutes ago, UmbralRaptor said:

Embarrassingly, this thread is probably still relevant, as the demo is still 1.0.x based. And lacks minor features like an engine with thrust vectoring. (The only liquid fuel one is the LV-T30, and it seems like the T-45 and 909 would show a lot more gameplay elements and make getting to the Mün reasonable instead of nigh-impossible)

You are correct, the current demo version is still the version that this description was written for, so it is very much relevant.

That said, despite being out of date, it still does what it needs to. @igor290506 An update probably wouldn't change very much.  The key benefits from 1.0.2 and beyond are not going to be very noticeable to the average demo player.  The aero is only slightly different which would make the biggest change, the parts won't be there, the part performance of Unity 5 doesn't matter with locked runway and launchpad.  So realistically it's nearly what we have.  Upgrading to 1.1.3 would probably make it worse than it is now, since landing gear is broken, and there is not really any point since in a few weeks 1.1.3 will likely be obsolete itself.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Alshain

[Wallygator]

17 hours ago, Findthepin1 said:

 

Inb4 lock

this is from 2015

 

However, the topic is valid, as a more up-to-date demo is always a good thing. Especially as 1.2 is on the horizon.

This thread might be a good reminder for our dev team to consider it - or at least feed back on their thoughts regarding when and what regarding an update to the demo.

Not sure a lock is appropriate, but if it happens... whatever...

[Sharpy]

 I seriously wonder if you can install mods. Because - piracy potential aside - it would be very interesting to try the game with only mod-derived planets, and only mod-derived parts. "No Stock".

[Deddly]

No need to discuss whether or not the thread should be locked. As has already been mentioned, it's still relevant. Remember, everyone, the rules (2.5) say that necroposting is not forbidden if you have something meaningful to add.

I personally would like to see a more up-to-date demo, but not if it means a lot of work, because I think the 1.0 demo is a pretty good representation of what the game is about.

12 minutes ago, Sharpy said:

 I seriously wonder if you can install mods...

The demo doesn't support mods, presumably for the reason that a modded demo is a fully-fledged game for free.

[wumpus]

On 5/11/2015 at 11:33 AM, SkyRender said:

A good demo for a good game helps, but any other scenario (good demo/bad game, bad demo/good game, bad demo/bad game) does not to varying degrees.

I suspect that most bad indie games are going to have enough trouble without a demo, and that good indie games still need all the advertising they can get.  It is only the studios that can get away with hyping a bad game and getting millions of pre-orders.

I'd seriously hope that Squad does *something* about the 1.0.0 aero model.  My memory of that was that "get into space" became significantly harder than "get into orbit" as the capsule didn't provide much aerobraking at all (you tended to come down faster than the parachutes could survive).  It could easily drive off future buyers.

[Andem]

On 8/18/2016 at 3:51 AM, magnemoe said:

Yes, its an serious lack of demoes today, for me in vastly increases the chance of buying. 
I bought KSP because of the demo, same with Mount&Blade, Daggerfall too, 

I think demos is even more important for indy games as they are less known and has limited marketing budgets. 
 

This is pertinent to the discussion, and something that people need to understand.

[magnemoe]

14 minutes ago, Andem said:

This is pertinent to the discussion, and something that people need to understand.

I agree with many points of the video, far from all yes it might be me understanding that the demo shows gameplay, and just fractions of features, environment and story, you don't get much feeling of gameplay from an video. 
Add elder scroll online to list of game bought after demo, in this case the beta was a demo, an exception as I probably bought this anyway but probably not as preorder.

Yes an hyped AAA game will probably do better without an demo, more so if the game is bad, Even if its an good game many will not like it, the tomb raider reboot was an objectively good game, however I could not take it because of quicktime events overdose, critical limit here is very low for me
However the videos focus also seems to be people who buy lots of games, I don't, yes it put me outside of the target group as I'm unlikely to buy their game anyway

Second is that people has other options, one they don't buy a game of an new franchise, the buy an follow up, this is why we don't see many new franchises but instead new versions of old games, the current trend is PS4 and One versions of PS3 and 360 games, or the pc version for consoles. 
Another option is to buy another game you try at an friend, second last is illegal download as "demo" this has the downside that unless the game is legendary most will finish the game on the illegal version while many would have bought it after an demo. 
Steam refund is pretty much an demo version anyway, however you have to stop before 2 hours if you want to refund it. 

Last and more critical the video talked about micro transactions as something positive. this make me question the rest of the content a lot, is this a paid work or are they on heavy drugs. 
Generally micro transactions are bad, from obvious cash grab down to scams,  its a few exceptions, this tend to be very popular games who is pretty cheap to develop and run so the publisher don't need to push hard to get load of money. MMO tend to be expensive both to develop and run. 
Still greed is an strong force, good chance the changes in Pokermon GO was to to get people to use money in the game, this backfired hard so its now an bug.

[Andem]

20 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Last and more critical the video talked about micro transactions as something positive. this make me question the rest of the content a lot, is this a paid work or are they on heavy drugs. 
Generally micro transactions are bad, from obvious cash grab down to scams,  its a few exceptions, this tend to be very popular games who is pretty cheap to develop and run so the publisher don't need to push hard to get load of money. MMO tend to be expensive both to develop and run. 
Still greed is an strong force, good chance the changes in Pokermon GO was to to get people to use money in the game, this backfired hard so its now an bug.

I agree with you completely up to this point, here. This channel is a labor of love by a group of game consultants, and you can't dismiss them based on something that wasn't even related to main the topic of the video. You're talking about a completely different type of microtransaction here, the scammy Pay2Win model, which is not what the Extra Credits team is suggesting.

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Andem

[MaxxQ]

Back in the old days, PC Gamer, Maximum PC, and Computer Gaming World all included discs with game demos on them.  Because of this, I was able to try out a LOT of games, and ended up buying several because of the demos - Deus Ex, Homeworld, Pharoah, Stronghold, Freespace 1 and 2, Independence War 1 and 2, various MechWarrior games, No One Lives Forever 1 and 2, Grim Fandango, Crimson Skies, and probably a few others that I've forgotten.  A few of these I can't play anymore (IWar 1, Crimson Skies, NOLF1) due to changes in hardware that renders them unplayable (IWar 1 required a Voodoo 2 or 3 card, and Crimson Skies used a weird asymmetrical texture process that modern cards don't do), but the rest I still fire up every so often.  IMO, demos are a good thing for both players and developers.  Players get a taste of the game, and they decide whether they like it or not, and Devs get their game out for people to try.  If it's a good demo, then most likely, it will be a good game, and people will buy.

The Deus EX demo is especially noteworthy, because it's the entire first level of the game, and because of the nature of the game, you could get many hours of playing just the demo, trying out the different ways of playing the game.  Or inventing new ones, such as using LAMs to climb up the outside of the Statue of Liberty to get to the primary objective, avoiding most of the enemies completely.  Fun times...

[igor290506]

On 8/18/2016 at 7:40 PM, UmbralRaptor said:

Embarrassingly, this thread is probably still relevant, as the demo is still 1.0.x based. And lacks minor features like an engine with thrust vectoring. (The only liquid fuel one is the LV-T30, and it seems like the T-45 and 909 would show a lot more gameplay elements and make getting to the Mün reasonable instead of nigh-impossible)

<UmbralRaptor> i sign in to ksp wiki so can edit as i want

Edited August 22, 2016 by igor290506

[UmbralRaptor]

5 hours ago, igor290506 said:

<UmbralRaptor> i sign in to ksp wiki so can edit as i want

???

You should be able to make an account. Or is there something IRC-related?

[wumpus]

On 8/19/2016 at 8:40 PM, MaxxQ said:

Back in the old days, PC Gamer, Maximum PC, and Computer Gaming World all included discs with game demos on them.  

They were also available on the internet, and presumably some of them were worth downloading on dialup (I'm pretty sure I had a few from then, and then a ton from when I got dsl).  Oddly enough, I don't remember NOLF demos (but I do remember the game).  The only game I remember being all that different from the demo was Need For Speed 3: the game never felt nor looked quite like the demo.  I liked both, but they weren't the same (the demo managed to distill the feel of "hot pursuit" wildly better).  Other notable demos were Baldur's Gate 1/2.  Each demo took up an entire CD (each game came with 6) and included the introduction (not sure about 1, but the second game had the entire "tutorial dungeon" before entering the city).

While there is some truth about demos only working for a "good game with a good demo", I can't imagine that indie gamers (without the marketing budgets of an EA or Activision to sucker people to pre-order the thing) getting the hype they need to sell a game without a good demo.  Sure, KSP had Randal Monroe including it in multiple XKCD cartoons, but few games can count on that type of thing.

As far as "free to play", it can be done well.  I got caught up with Dungeons & Dragons Online when they went "free to play".  It shouldn't be too surprising that they set it up to emulate the old Apogee/Id system of "givem about 1/3 of the game and charge for the rest": you could get about 1/3 of the way to cap playing for free, but slowly the free quests dried up.  It also helped that plenty of the game's target audience remembered buying "ready to play" D&D modules in their youth.  Sadly, management saw this as an opportunity to slowly add "pay to win" to the game.  For most players, it took years before the "pay to win" aspects started ruining the game, but I'm sure that was true for most players (of course, from a management aspect, they had already paid as much as they were going to.  But it doesn't help to log into a MMO and see few players).  Last time I logged on all my inventory was labeled  "String Table Error; TableDID", so I suspect they are in non-maintenance mode.