KSP 1.0: The x64 Report!

[RogueMason]

KSP 1.0: The x64 Report!

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Be advised, this is a wall of text, but it's an important wall of text, so please read it all. I am also aware that work is supposed to be commencing on porting to Unity 5 now, but this is for in the meantime.

Alright, so over the last week and a bit, I've been experimenting, and from the title, you can all probably guess exactly what it is that I've been experimenting with. Yes, I've been looking at that prototype x64 player that's been bundled with the last few versions of Unity and saw a brief but sadly marred service with KSP. Well, I wasn't all too happy when support for that mode was withdrawn, what with me using some hefty mods in my copy of the game, so I set about getting my own x64 version up and running for 1.0.

"What? Are you mad, mate?! There's a reason we left that dead and buried!"

Well, yes, like I said, it had a marred stint of service with KSP. Bugs galore. CTDs. BSoDs (well, I never actually heard of BSoDs happening with x64, but people like exaggerations, right?).

The point is it was rough and tumble for most of those who elected to use it. I was one of the luckier ones, and didn't actually have all that much trouble. Sure, I had problems, and 0.90 was about the worst it got for me, crash-wise.

"Why are you telling us this? What's this thread even for??"

Hush. I'm here to tell you about the results of my experimental KSP 1.0 x64 edition. So, without further ado, here's the rundown.

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The setup was identical to the original method identified all the way back in 0.23.5/0.24. See the original thread here. The only difference was that KSP currently uses Unity 4.6.4, not 4.3.3. From there, it was just starting up the game as normal. Module Manager confirmed that KSP was running x64, so that was a good start. I'd loaded up all the mods I have that still worked from 0.90, including the very RAM-hungry Astronomers Visual Pack: Interstellar for EVE. That was the biggy; x86 KSP couldn't handle it even when it was the only mod installed.

So, all the assets loaded up fine, and we get to the main menu. I'm not sure how many of you experienced this in 0.90 or earlier, but the x64 versions would actually pause for a moment on the main menu screen before all the options came up. That's gone in 1.0; it's instantaneous once the little solar system loading icon has vanished. And obviously, it hasn't crashed by exceeding a memory limit, which is good; that's the entire purpose of x64, after all

Next up was to load a save. This is where things would go wrong for me in 0.90; I'd try to load my save and it would crash the game, so I had a workaround that left me loading a scenario every time I started the game just to give it a kick-start. That's also gone in 1.0; I can load my save just fine now.

We are now at the space centre screen. Sometimes, x64 would crash if you tried to enter the VAB or SPH, or any building for that matter. This hasn't happened to me at all in 1.0.

We're looking a lot more stable already, huh?

That was the limit of my problems with x64 prior to 1.0; I never encountered anything else, but it's my understanding that the x64 version would often crash regardless of the circumstances. I’ve not experienced a single crash at all when playing with this modified version of the game.

Of course, it isn’t perfect. I did have to get a fresh install sorted out when I realised it was neither Universe Replacer nor Texture Replacer that was causing the ‘Positive_X’ skybox texture to not load (with neither mod installed and just using the stock skybox, everything loaded fine), but that’s fixed now. I don’t know if it’ll happen again, but it’s not happening now.

I’m not sure if this next one is a problem inherent to KSP regardless of whether or not it’s x86 or x64, but the game can (not always) also develop a bit of a frame stutter when piloting a craft that can get to be annoying, but it doesn’t completely freeze up. It’s solvable about 50% of the time by exiting to the space centre and then returning to the flight. It is also possible for there to be some freezes that last for a few seconds at most, but the game just continues as it was before the freeze.

…

That’s it, actually. That’s all the bad stuff I can think of. No crashes, just annoyances.

“Wait, wait, wait, are you saying x64 got BETTER??â€Â

Well, yeah. Here’s my summary.

First, the positives.

1. Much higher RAM limit, as expected (duh).

2. Absolutely no crashes on loading.

3. No pause or delay when entering the main menu after watching the 'little solar system loading icon' (technical term).

4. No crashes on starting a save.

5. No crashes upon entering buildings.

6. No crashes in flight.

Now, the negatives (that I’ve encountered).

7. Potential for frame stutter, sometimes pretty bad, but usually solvable by exiting to the space centre then returning to the flight (about 50% effective). The more extreme but less common variant of this is that the game will freeze for a few seconds instead of a few milliseconds before resuming.

8. Potential to interfere with the loading of some assets, though only with those of mods.

Basically, the prototype x64 player is actually in the most useable state it’s been in since we first found out about it.

And to think that Squad went and dropped it before testing it out themselves. Tut tut. Leaving the dirty work to the players. Well, player. Singular. Just me.

Actually…

This is where you guys could come in. As with any scientific experiment (and believe me, this is very scientific), there need to be repeat readings, which I have tried as much as possible, but there also needs to be verification from others to increase reliability. So, I'm asking anyone who’s willing to test to download the 4.6.4 version of Unity (select 'Unity Editor' from the drop-down lists). Refer to the original x64 post linked above for instructions on what to do with that download (when you get to the Mono.dll, I’d also install the ‘etc’ folder that’s alongside it).

OBVIOUSLY, do this on a separate install! Get Module Manager installed too to verify that you are indeed running x64, then cram a load of hefty mods into the Gamedata folder to check the RAM limit. Once you’re sure that you’ve got an x64 version up and running, start testing it out. Hopefully you’ll also come to realise that this version is vastly superior to any previous version we’d been offered.

If you made it this far down the page, then well done, but I’m not quite finished yet.

“What?! How much more?!â€Â

Not much. Basically, I want to compile a list of known issues here (see below), if there are any more to be found. Should you encounter anything that's any degree of bad (from mild bee sting to global armageddon), post it, and I'll try to keep tabs on what's happening. With a little luck, this thread will garner some attention from Squad provided the overall result of this new x64 player is good, and that can only be determined by your testing! So get out there and test, I'm not paying you by the hour!

"You're not paying us at all!"

Nuh-uh; Rep points for all who provide valuable input! This is a little bit of 'work' I'm asking you guys to indulge in, so I will offer a little something for your contributions

Thanks for reading. I'm surprised you made it this far

- - - Updated - - -

KNOWN ISSUES:

1. Potential for frame stutter, sometimes pretty bad, but usually solvable by exiting to the space centre then returning to the flight (about 50% effective). The more extreme but less common variant of this is that the game will freeze for a few seconds instead of a few milliseconds before resuming.

2. Potential to interfere with the loading of some assets, though only with those of mods.

3. The 'right-click bug'. The one which can sometimes leave you right-clicking on a part a million times before it opens its menu, and then a million clicks before it closes again. Also affects the middle mouse button, which is noticeable after you've shifted the camera around with that MMB function. Not an overly serious bug, but it can be very annoying. I don't know whether or not this is inherent to KSP or just the x64 player, so I'm listing it on the off chance it's x64.

4. (Reported by Thiagobs) Potential GUI issues on scene changes (e.g. KSC to VAB). Persist for longer if more RAM is in use. Menus from other scenes will appear momentarily, most notably the astronaut complex.

5. (Reported by AlphaAsh) Possible issues with building tiers not functioning correctly, showing a fully upgraded facility despite being a lower tier. Apparently solvable, at least temporarily, by exiting to the main menu and reloading the save, OR by loading up the VAB/SPH and then returning to the Space Centre view.

6. (Reported by ObsessedWithKSP) (Very minor) Left click doesn't work properly after exiting the game. Right clicking after exiting should instantly fix this.

7. (Not really x64) Some mods will still disable themselves if they detect that they're running on the x64 version.

8. (Reported by John FX and myself) Reverting to the VAB/SPH can sometimes cause the parts and sub-assemblies to just disappear, requiring you to exit the editor and then returning to it in order to fix it. Relatively minor, but still an issue.

-----

This thread isn't the only one, it would seem. Keep an eye on this thread, too, they're also investigating x64.

Edited June 8, 2015 by RogueMason

[RogueMason]

NEW ISSUE OBSERVED: The 'right-click bug'. The one which can sometimes leave you right-clicking on a part a million times before it opens its menu, and then a million clicks before it closes again. Also affects the middle mouse button, which is noticeable after you've shifted the camera around with that MMB function. Not an overly serious bug, but it can be very annoying. I don't know whether or not this is inherent to KSP or just the x64 player, so I'm listing it on the off chance it's x64.

Also, it's been a little while since I posted this now, and it's had no replies. Odd considering that x64 for KSP is a feature that pretty much everyone is dying to get their mitts on. I've had a rep point from here, sure, but that's not much. Do none of you really have anything to say about this? Or are you all too busy testing it out?

[MatterBeam]

How useful is the x64 if you've only got 4GB of total RAM anyways?

[RogueMason]

Not very. x64 is intended for those with more than 4GB of RAM. It'd run just fine with 4GB but you wouldn't get the full benefit, so it'd be better to stick to the trusty x86 instead.

[Thiagobs]

Made some preliminary tests here...

First, my specs:

Windows 8.1 x64

Intel i7 950

6GB Ram (not very ideal)

GTX 760 2Gb

I've crammed my GameData full of mods... Attempting to launch the "regular" KSPx32 would only get me to the main menu... starting a game means instant crash.

With x64, I was sitting at the KSC menu with KSP using 3.7Gb according to Task Manager

I've built a quick and small craft with a powerful engine and infinite fuel to get things going fast. Launching this craft at 400m/s at sealevel means that every part of my craft was overheating, but I've left the memory leaking gauges on to push the memory.

In space, with overheating bits, Task Manager reported that KSP was using 5.3Gb and I've started experiencing sound stuttering from Chatterer, probably because my overall RAM use was near my 6gb limit. Non-chatterer sounds were still fine, and graphic-wise, there wasn't any stuttering or glitches either.

I haven't noticed any glitches, only a few mods not working, probably due to them disabling themselves under x64

Changing scenes (from KSC to VAB, or from gamescreen to KSC) caused some GUI issues, menus from other screens (most notably the Astronaut Complex menu) would pop up very quickly. The more RAM was used, the longer these GUI issues would persist.

I have not experienced the right-click glitch yet.

Ultimately KSP hanged while I was alt+tabbing, but my whole system was getting a bit iffy. (FYI, I do have a fixed pagefile set up with 6Gb -- same amount as my installed RAM)

Other than that, not much more to say, I was positively surprised to see how KSP performed, I had far more issues with the "stock" x64 before SQUAD dropped it.

[Alewx]

As much as I understand the need for x64 and share the opinion that it is highly needed to have an awesome great and widely varied KSP experience with all the mods out there.

But as Squad is already in the process of converting the project into Unity5, is this thread not just some kind of pressure to provide the x64 version?

The reason that x64 was dropped is totally understandable for me, just random crashes ever now and then without particular reasons, so shouldn't we wait until we get somekind of devblog about the progress of the conversion to unity5 before we raise any new demand for x64?

[Superfluous J]

I think this thread is important. It shows those who want to put the work in and do the testing how to get x64 running. With any luck, those are the exact people who won't run into every mod thread in this forum with "ur mod sux u bork mah game" posts when the fault is actually theirs for using something that is known to be buggy.

Squad didn't drop 64 bit support because it was buggy. They dropped it because the mod using community as a whole couldn't handle the responsibility.

[RogueMason]

As much as I understand the need for x64 and share the opinion that it is highly needed to have an awesome great and widely varied KSP experience with all the mods out there.

But as Squad is already in the process of converting the project into Unity5, is this thread not just some kind of pressure to provide the x64 version?

The reason that x64 was dropped is totally understandable for me, just random crashes ever now and then without particular reasons, so shouldn't we wait until we get somekind of devblog about the progress of the conversion to unity5 before we raise any new demand for x64?

I totally agree with the reasoning for the old x64 being dropped, as it was pretty bad, but this thread was never meant to put any pressure on anyone to do anything. It's just here to say that the current x64 player seemed to actually be a lot better than those before it, and I wanted some help testing it out to ensure that it wasn't just me experiencing a relative lack of bugs and glitches.

As I said, I know work on Unity 5 is supposedly rolling now, but the method here for applying x64 to KSP is simple enough that it should at least satiate the wants of those of us who preferred to use x64 prior to Squad dropping it. I don't mind if the devs don't reimplement it, because at least I've got the means to run it myself, and anyone else can follow the instructions if they want to

...

Thiagobs, thanks for that info, anything is useful here

[Alewx]

I might give it a try, if I get some extra time.

But so far I'm pretty skeptical.

Also did I miss something? isn't EVE mod not updated for the current game version?

[RogueMason]

I might give it a try, if I get some extra time.

But so far I'm pretty skeptical.

Also did I miss something? isn't EVE mod not updated for the current game version?

Scepticism is fine in small amounts, but I really wouldn't be as enthusiastic about all this if it wasn't worth the hassle

If you do try, use a separate copy of the game, as mentioned. I don't want anything bad to happen to anyones main saves.

And EVE works fine. AVP Interstellar also works fine if you've got the RAM for it (and it's the reason I use x64).

[moronwrocket]

I know that some mods actively disable themselves if they detect a x64 installation, is there a list anywhere of which mods that do this? Can't live without my KER, KAC, and PreceiseNode.

[RogueMason]

I'm not sure. I know some mods did do that, but I think the only way to be sure is to try them out. If they don't work, then it could be that they're disabling themselves, or it could just be that they're outdated and need patching up for 1.0.

[Thiagobs]

I don't see this as pressure for Squad to reinstate x64, but information gathering...

If Unity5 doesn't bring back x64, this info can be useful, even for Squad.

It's not unlike the OpenGL shenanigans, KSP doesn't officially support it, but it works fine for some people and they're happy to use it

I might give it a try, if I get some extra time.

But so far I'm pretty skeptical.

I was skeptical too, until I tested.. So far, x64 have been quite solid for me, better than the previous stock x64...

Of course, your mileage may (and will) vary.

I know that some mods actively disable themselves if they detect a x64 installation, is there a list anywhere of which mods that do this? Can't live without my KER, KAC, and PreceiseNode.

Usually a mod will say in their mainpage if they don't work in x64, like RealChute:

Please note that this mod will not work on windows 64bit builds.

On my testings, KER and KAC worked (loaded), but I haven't played around with them much... I've never used PreciseNode, so I can't comment on that...

All in all, don't look at this x64 experiment as a "hey, let's use x64, it works well! Ditch your x86(x32) and use this instead"... Always assume it will be broken, and even if it isn't, assume it will break eventually, so don't go playing with your main save on this.

[Captain Sierra]

*sees this thread* Yisss!!! Get over here AVP! Loading you up right now!

Will report back after I duplicate my standard install and add both New Horizon planets and AVP 8k.

[AlphaAsh]

So, first a disclaimer. I tried the previous 'hack' and for the first few hours was impressed with how it let me run every mod I could. I eventually couldn't ignore the constant crashes and instability and regretted my initial enthusiastic endorsement.

I've not had a single crash this time and I've been playing nearly 6 hours today and about 8 hours yesterday. So yes, IMHO, something has definitely gotten fixed in the version of Unity KSP is currently running on.

Only one small bug that I've had to contend with - the facilities at the KSC can't decide what tier they are. I suspect this is just an incompatibility with Kerbal Konstructs and I've managed to work around it.

If you run a heavily modded KSP and keep hitting the memory limit, I would recommend at least trying this on a separate install.

[RogueMason]

So, first a disclaimer. I tried the previous 'hack' and for the first few hours was impressed with how it let me run every mod I could. I eventually couldn't ignore the constant crashes and instability and regretted my initial enthusiastic endorsement.

I've not had a single crash this time and I've been playing nearly 6 hours today and about 8 hours yesterday. So yes, IMHO, something has definitely gotten fixed in the version of Unity KSP is currently running on.

Only one small bug that I've had to contend with - the facilities at the KSC can't decide what tier they are. I suspect this is just an incompatibility with Kerbal Konstructs and I've managed to work around it.

If you run a heavily modded KSP and keep hitting the memory limit, I would recommend at least trying this on a separate install.

Hmm, I'll mention that building tier thing in the known issues, just in case anyone else happens across it. If anyone else mentions it, it may be a good idea to post the workaround you used.

Thanks for the testing

[AlphaAsh]

An update.

I've been using the latest KSP x64 'hack' for windows exclusively now for approximately 12 hours of continuous up-time (since last post), with one crash. According to the log, EVE's lack of exception handling that usually doesn't cause an issue, finally killed KSP. Considering how out-dated the last stable build of that mod is, I'm not surprised or bothered.

There is some stuttering in the kerbal-cam windows, just like the last hack but it isn't as severe. There is some strange rendering of the astronaut complex between scene switches. This time around it's appearing almost kerb-cam like in the top right, rather than full-screen. It's only for a moment.

I'm also using the latest dev-build of MechJeb and that does seem to interact badly with KSP intermittently, in that I can lose control of a vessel until I switch back to KSC and then back to the vessel. It's a minor thing.

I haven't confirmed whether the unreliable level of KSC's facilities is due to Kerbal Konstructs. I'll get that done for the next update for this thread. I'll compile a list of mods I'm using for the next update as well.

I'm happy to continue using x64 KSP on Windows. It has been far more stable this time round.

Edited May 22, 2015 by AlphaAsh

[vexx32]

The buildings' tiers were all weird in 0.90's x64 version as well, for the record. It might be a similar thing here.

[AlphaAsh]

The buildings' tiers were all weird in 0.90's x64 version as well, for the record. It might be a similar thing here.

*nod* I want to eliminate KK as the cause, anyway. I had to to 'fudge' the mod to work with facility levels in 0.90, hence my caution.

[RogueMason]

There is some strange rendering of the astronaut complex between scene switches. This time around it's appearing almost kerb-cam like in the top right, rather than full-screen. It's only for a moment.

I think that might be what Thiagobs reported earlier in the thread, and I do encounter it myself, but it's so superficial an issue that I didn't bother mentioning it, especially as it's pretty much limited to scene transitions at the space centre. It's not related to Kerbal Cam, that's for sure.

Good to see x64 worked out for you. That's at least 3 of us now with good reports for it

[sergioberg]

57 mods.

5.4 Gb memory used by KSP.

No crashes.

Edited May 22, 2015 by sergioberg

[Lumaan]

Just did a quick test and have to say after dropping some addon's (chatters, KJR, Realchute and a few more I had to remove. *need more testing as I'm not sure if needed to remove the "few more"*), run 40+ addon's with "Astronomer's Visual Pack - Interstellar V2"'s clouds high/4k, RAM around 5Gb and did a trip to Mun in Kerbal X.

But I happy with the Unity 2.6.4 64bit in KSP

Addon's installed:

TransferWindowPlanner

FinalFrontier

Toolbar

MechJebForAll

Surfacelights

CrowdSourcedScience

AlternateResourcePanel

AutoAsparagus

KSP-AVC

KerbalAlarmClock

MechJeb2

ScienceAlert

TACLSMining

KerbalEngineerRedux

MenuStabilizer

TACLS

SmartStage

DockingPortAlignmentIndicator

VNG-ParachuteAutoSmartParts

ContractRewardModifier

SmartParts

ContractsWindowPlus

TacFuelBalancer

ModuleManager

TemperatureGaugeKiller

CapCom

HeatManagement

EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements

MiniAirbrakes

ModularFlightIntegrator

PilotAssistant

RCSBuildAid

RCSSounds

RoverWheelSounds

S.A.V.E

DistantObject

StockBugFixModules

ThermalMonitor

RasterPropMonitor

StageRecovery

Scatterer

PlanetShine

Edited May 22, 2015 by Lumaan

[RogueMason]

Oh excellent! That's a lot of mods... good to see x64 was still pretty much stable!

Thanks for the testing

[sergioberg]

My list. 2 mods not works in Winx64.

- ASET

- AlternateResourcePanel 2.7.1.0

- ASETPropsIdentifier autodetected dll

- AstronomersPack-AtmosphericScattering Interstellar.V2

- AstronomersPack-Clouds-Medium Interstellar.V2

- AstronomersPack-DistantObjectEnhancement Interstellar.V2

- AstronomersPack-Eve-Jool-Clouds-4K Interstellar.V2

- AstronomersPack-Sandstorms Interstellar.V2

- AstronomersPack-Snow Interstellar.V2

- BDAnimationModules v0.6.1

- Chatterer 0.9.1

- DistantObject v1.5.5

- DMagicOrbitalScience 1.0.3

- DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.2

- EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 7-4

- FinalFrontier 0.8.2-1285

- FuelTanksPlus 0.9.1

- Fusebox 1.31

- Historian 0.2

- InfernalRobotics v0.21.2

- IR-Model-Rework-Core v01b

- IR-Model-Rework-Expansion v01b

- KAS 0.5.1

- KerbalAlarmClock v3.3.2.1

- KerbalConstructionTime 1.1.7

- KerbalEngineerRedux 1.0.16.6

- KerbalJointReinforcement v3.1.3 - Winx64 support disabled in mod

- KerbalNRAP 1.5.0.4 - Not works correctly!

- KIS 1.1.4

- KWRocketry 2.7

- MechJeb2 2.5.1

- MechJebForAll 1.2.0.0

- ModuleManager 2.6.3

- NavHud 1.2.1

- ProceduralParts v1.1.1

- Protractor v2.5.0.2

- QuickScroll v1.22

- QuickSearch v1.12

- RandSCapsuledyne 1.5.01

- RasterPropMonitor v0.19.4

- RasterPropMonitor-Core v0.19.4

- RCSBuildAid 0.7

- RemoteTech 1.6.5

- SCANsat v12.0

- ShipManifest 4.2.1.1

- SmartParts 1.6.5

- SmartStage v2.6.1

- SpaceY-Lifters 0.14

- StockBugFixModules v1.0.2d.3

- surfacelights 1.0

- TacFuelBalancer v2.5.1

- TextureReplacer 2.4.4

- Thermometer 1.0.5

- Toolbar 1.7.9

- TransferWindowPlanner v1.3.0.1

- VesselView 0.71

- WaypointManager 2.3.2

- xScience 4.4

Edited May 22, 2015 by sergioberg

[Lumaan]

Oh excellent! That's a lot of mods... good to see x64 was still pretty much stable!

Thanks for the testing

If I get time over the weekend, I'll try and see how far I can push it with some of the big part-mods. Got 16Gb of RAM, need to see how far KSP 64bit (Unity 64bit) can be pushed without crash