Do you consider Offset Clipping cheating?

[yorshee]

This is something I've been curious about - do you consider using the Offset tool to clip things inside one another cheating? Examples of this include clipping multiple fuel tanks inside each other so your rocket isn't too tall, or offsetting engines far inside the fuel tanks so they don't stick out so much.

[Robotengineer]

No.

5char

[Rithsom]

I don't consider Offset cheating if the said part was moved over a few centimeters or so. I do, however, consider it cheating if it is used to clip many parts into one another.

[Slam_Jones]

It's an official part of the game, accessible with no prerequisites.

Per definition, it is not cheating.

[SpenSpaceCorp]

I would say it depends, though strongly leaning towards no it is not cheating. I often use it to hide a little bit of an engine or part inside another partially. Where I personally draw the line for part clipping to be "cheaty" would be something like clipping 2+ engines or 2+ tanks exactly together; I tend to use it to make craft look beautiful, not to "cheat" more fuel into what looks like one tank, or an engine with "twice" the amount of thrust.

[adinfinitum]

I would say that in some cases it could be an exploit, but not in others. Clipping multiple fuel tanks into each other, yeah, I'd call that an exploit. Nudging a few parts around to make things more streamlined and adjusting the height of landing gear isn't what I'd call an exploit though.

[Starwhip]

I say there is nothing wrong with it. To hell with logic if the player wants it. Dimensionally transcendental fuel tanks are all the rage these days, I hear.

[Superfluous J]

Aside from the "no cheating in singleplayer games," no. It's still not cheating even then.

Space programs have a lot of options we don't have, and our way to end run around that is to clip a little here and there. The mass is the same so other than aerodynamics, it's all a wash.

[Katalliaan]

I'm fine for doing it with structural pieces. However, if it would have two things clip together in such a way that they'd inhibit their use (e.g. clipping something into a fuel tank), I wouldn't do it.

[Aegrim]

It's an official part of the game, accessible with no prerequisites.

Per definition, it is not cheating.

The word he's looking for then is "gamey"

[katateochi]

I have no issue with it with it at all, it makes for much more aesthetically pleasing craft. Even if you put one tank right inside another it doesn't gain you any advantage, you still have the same weight to lift and (correctly me if I'm wrong here), drag for radial parts is calculated where the part is originally attached. Off-setting something inside something else won't reduce your drag, it will still be as if it was outside.

[JokingHinge]

There is nothing wrong with any method of part clipping.

[Thomas988]

Nope. If it were "cheating," then Squad wouldn't have put it into the game.

[Voidryder]

Of course it's cheating. Look at RL rockets. Designers stick everything on the outside. Usually with space tape.

[MGCJerry]

In my opinion... Is it cheating? Here is how I handle it for me.

* If I have 2+ engines occupying the same space at the same time = Yes

* If I have 2+ full fuel tanks occupying the same space at the same time = Yes

Exceptions to 'cheating':

* Clipping fuel tanks together needs the appropriate amount of fuel removed. Such as, if have a tank half way clipped into another tank, that tank can be filled half.

* I set out specifically to create a replica of something. These are independent of my "main save".

* I'm trololololllling the kerbals by building wacky vehicles.

[AlamoVampire]

this is a single player game. Cheating is a non issue. Cheating only becomes relevant when playing with players, and only then, if the "cheat" in question is providing an unfair or unnatural advantage to you over the other players. This is why, this is not cheating, nor is any other mod for this game, as, again, all players are playing in a self contained universe that is not connected to other players. And yes, I am intentionally disregarding the current multiplayer mod.

[Woopert]

No, because it makes craft look beautiful

In my opinion... Is it cheating? Here is how I handle it for me.

* If I have 2+ engines occupying the same space at the same time = Yes

* If I have 2+ full fuel tanks occupying the same space at the same time = Yes

Exceptions to 'cheating':

* Clipping fuel tanks together needs the appropriate amount of fuel removed. Such as, if have a tank half way clipped into another tank, that tank can be filled half.

* I set out specifically to create a replica of something. These are independent of my "main save".

* I'm trololololllling the kerbals by building wacky vehicles.

Clipping engines is creative because you can come up with unique combinations for the job. Before the thrust fix changes I used to use a Skipper and Poodle clipped together for more thrust, and better in space efficiency.

[Dodgey]

Can we please sticky one of these discussions at some point, it seems like every couple of weeks one of these threads pop up and the results are always the same.

It's a single player game, it is a mechanic that is built into the game, it compensates for limitations that real life space programs do not have when designing a space craft, it is a game.

[Bill Phil]

You still have to pay for the mass...

[Amram]

Who cares?

Is this cheating? Is that? What about x mod? What about <insert here>. Answer?

Someday people will get over themselves and play however they want and not care that they or others might play differently....I suspect I'll be retired long before then.

[Jolbucley]

In my opinion, something is cheating at a given time iff it meets two of the following criteria:

1. Somebody has enough of a problem with it to have a problem with you if you do it
   
2. It’s against the rules
   
3. You’re asking yourself or someone else if it’s cheating
   

That’s how I measure it, and I figure unless somebody is complaining to you about your offset clipping habit, you aren’t cheating, since I haven’t seen any rules against it..

[zarakon]

It all depends on how reasonable you are about it.

If you're using it to cram your entire rocket inside of a service bay, then yeah that's going a bit too far

[AlamoVampire]

Who cares?

Is this cheating? Is that? What about x mod? What about <insert here>. Answer?

Someday people will get over themselves and play however they want and not care that they or others might play differently....I suspect I'll be retired long before then.

i think people who start these sorts of threads, are either self conscious about mods that they use, or design tools or what ever and are looking for a reassuring pat on the back that they are in the right. I am NOT implying that this is the case here, but, it seems to be a commonality. Look, its this simple: Do you enjoy the game using what ever tool<s> you have at your disposal in a single player game? if so, then YAY, if not? find a way to enjoy it, or walk away.

It all depends on how reasonable you are about it.

If you're using it to cram your entire rocket inside of a service bay, then yeah that's going a bit too far

no. it does not depend on how reasonable you are about it. Why? its a single player game, and it effects NO ONE but the OP. I have said this I have no many times since I joined in 2013: MODS =/= cheating. design tools =/= cheating. Why? it is not giving you an unnatural advantage over me or anyone else, as it is SINGLE PLAYER. I just wish these sorts of topics would end.

[Gerandar]

its a feature in the game that you dont need the debug menu to get to thus its not cheating.

[problemecium]

The way I see it:

Want your side-mounted engine pods to fit in more smoothly with the hull? Fine.

Want to cram a few batteries inside a probe core? Fine - the electronics can't possibly be so big they fill the whole interior anyway.

Want to make a super-tank that holds 3x the fuel by clipping three tanks inside each other? No go.

Want to clip a moving part like a landing gear of scanner inside something? Blech. It really kills immersion when I see stuff moving through other stuff.

Want to make an SSTO, but don't want to put the necessary size wings on it, so you instead decide to place 38 wings inside each other to make an uber-wing? *barfs* It doesn't even LOOK right any more, let alone the matter of being "cheaty".