The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[DaMachinator]

Requesting permission to use USI Survivabilty (airbags, inflatable floats, escape pod system)

I assume Lithobrake Exploration Technologies is allowed, it being previously approved.

[septemberWaves]

1 hour ago, DaMachinator said:

I assume Lithobrake Exploration Technologies is allowed, it being previously approved.

I'd be careful with that assumption if I were you; mod updates can break previous balances and perhaps it is no longer approved for that reason.

[DaMachinator]

@eloquentJane The post it was approved in was less than a week old, so I felt safer in my decision.

[sdj64]

Four entries reviewed, I think that we're caught up now.

@Sean24135 Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 3!  I liked the look of your mothership but thought it was funny that it was much more aerodynamic than your lift rocket!  Good use of your Tylo lander's top stage to do the small moons.

@littlebuddy0 Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 3!  Your landers were great, small and especially your Laythe lander looked like a Starfox ship.  Your long wobbly mothership and video antics were entertaining to watch.  As a small tip, if you click the green arrow in a fuel tank's right click menu, it locks the tank so fuel doesn't drain out.  Might save you some time in the future!

 

@Mesklin Congratulations, you have completed the Low Mass Level 1 Challenge!  Ever so briefly holding the record at 10.775 tons!  With the now iconic low-mass design and a very interesting heat minimization technique on liftoff.  I'm glad the idea of a LFO Vall lander worked.

@Nefrums Congratulations, you have completed the Low Mass Level 1 Challenge!  Breaking the 10 ton barrier and a whopping 4 tons lighter than your previous best, at 8.600 tons you are the new record holder!  And the undisputed master of gravity assists.  Everything was not only low mass but low volume, which no doubt helped with drag and fairing mass.

If the Jool 5 Challenge could give out honorary PhD's, you've both earned it.  Barring a rule change about pods (not going to happen) or a major Kerbal breakthrough in quantum mechanics (probably even less likely), I doubt we'll see more than a few tenths of a ton better.  Can the Laythe lander be just Rapier+jetpack?

 

I have also added the two mods to the list that I had previously approved, and put a note at the top saying you may still do the challenge in 1.0.5.

Edited May 24, 2016 by sdj64

[sdj64]

11 hours ago, DaMachinator said:

Requesting permission to use USI Survivabilty (airbags, inflatable floats, escape pod system)

I assume Lithobrake Exploration Technologies is allowed, it being previously approved.

USI Survivability is not allowed, on the basis of its extremely lightweight pod and very high temperature tolerances for many parts.

[Barefoot Friar]

Just to keep myself accountable and to inform any interested parties:

I got to Tylo after using way, way too much fuel in my Jool insertion burn, disconnected my lander and the tug from the mothership, got it into the orbit I wanted, and then realized that the lander has no control authority because it lacks both RCS and a reaction wheel.  It was late, so I quit for the night.  Then I got an idea for an entirely new mothership design that I want to try.  So I want to just start over from scratch.  After testing the daylights out of everything first, of course.  In fact, I'm giving some thought to doing it with ISRU, but I haven't decided yet.

Edit: Also, @sdj64, you rock.  Just thought you needed to know that.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Barefoot Friar

[DaMachinator]

1 hour ago, sdj64 said:

USI Survivability is not allowed, on the basis of its extremely lightweight pod and very high temperature tolerances for many parts.

Thank you, sir. Do you know of any other mods that add floats that would be allowed?

[sdj64]

On 5/24/2016 at 7:29 PM, Barefoot Friar said:

Just to keep myself accountable and to inform any interested parties:

I got to Tylo after using way, way too much fuel in my Jool insertion burn, disconnected my lander and the tug from the mothership, got it into the orbit I wanted, and then realized that the lander has no control authority because it lacks both RCS and a reaction wheel.  It was late, so I quit for the night.  Then I got an idea for an entirely new mothership design that I want to try.  So I want to just start over from scratch.  After testing the daylights out of everything first, of course.  In fact, I'm giving some thought to doing it with ISRU, but I haven't decided yet.

Edit: Also, @sdj64, you rock.  Just thought you needed to know that.

Thank you for the encouragement!  And good luck with your new design.

On 5/25/2016 at 8:30 PM, DaMachinator said:

Thank you, sir. Do you know of any other mods that add floats that would be allowed?

I assume you want inflatable floats, since empty fuel tanks make excellent rigid floats.  The only other one I know of is SXT, which is also not allowed for reasons unrelated to the airbags.  You can download the airbags mini-pack and it will be allowed.

[DaMachinator]

20 hours ago, sdj64 said:

Thank you for the encouragement!  And good luck with your new design.

I assume you want inflatable floats, since empty fuel tanks make excellent rigid floats.  The only other one I know of is SXT, which is also not allowed for reasons unrelated to the airbags.  You can download the airbags mini-pack and it will be allowed.

Thanks!

[DaMachinator]

More requests, I haven't even started sending up mothership modules to LKO and I'm already running into engineering problems...

USI Freight (1.0.5) 

Starlifter (chassis for mounting Kontainers, large toroidal SAS module, reactor similar to the MKS/OKS ones)

Honeybadger (not really sure, never used it)

[septemberWaves]

Oh the honeybadger parts are nice, they're great for huge rovers, heavy lifters, and inter-planetary freighters. I doubt the mod will be allowed though because the honeybadger part set also includes powerful turbofans that don't consume any fuel (although they do consume electric charge).

[Planet Destroyer]

Don't you realize Jool has been destroyed by me. This challenge has no purpose!

[JacobJHC]

@sdj64 I am working on a delta-v map for the approximate amount of delta-v required to complete the challenge, although it requires one to visit the moons in a specific order, I have the orbital requirements done and am working on the rough lander requirements and was wondering if you would want to use it for anything regarding this challenge. I based my calculations of of my challenge submission. I also rounded up for a safety margin. 

[Barefoot Friar]

40 minutes ago, JacobJHC said:

@sdj64 I am working on a delta-v map for the approximate amount of delta-v required to complete the challenge, although it requires one to visit the moons in a specific order, I have the orbital requirements done and am working on the rough lander requirements and was wondering if you would want to use it for anything regarding this challenge. I based my calculations of of my challenge submission. I also rounded up for a safety margin. 

May I please see it?  I'd like to know if my calculations are anywhere near correct.

[JacobJHC]

@Barefoot Friar Here you go - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/140771-jool-5-rough-orbital-delta-v-requirements/

 

[Barefoot Friar]

1 hour ago, JacobJHC said:

@Barefoot Friar Here you go - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/140771-jool-5-rough-orbital-delta-v-requirements/

 

Thank you!

[JacobJHC]

@Barefoot Friar No problem, just remember to have spare delta-v because your mission will not go exactly as mine. I would pack extra for transfers and for the Jool capture, you should also plan for course corrections.

[Barefoot Friar]

I can see from this that I was off by a good margin in my intra-system dv allowance.  I'll need to do some more testing.  At any rate, this is very elegantly shown, whereas mine is random scribbles in a spare notebook I found lying about.  I probably ought to invest in a whiteboard; it would make me look way cooler and smarter to visitors.

[JacobJHC]

@Barefoot Friar lol all I did was watch my own video with a stick note and a pencil

[sdj64]

On 5/28/2016 at 4:18 PM, Planet Destroyer said:

Don't you realize Jool has been destroyed by me. This challenge has no purpose!

Luckily we have multiple backup Jools in storage just for this purpose.  Every few months the Kraken eats Jool and takes its place, but no one notices because it's the same color and shape.  Then we tell him to move along and he eventually leaves but not without changing some of the physics first, and we put in a new Jool to replace the one that was eaten.  When this happens, we increment the number in the bottom right corner of the main menu screen...

 

On 5/28/2016 at 11:24 PM, DaMachinator said:

More requests, I haven't even started sending up mothership modules to LKO and I'm already running into engineering problems...

USI Freight (1.0.5) 

Starlifter (chassis for mounting Kontainers, large toroidal SAS module, reactor similar to the MKS/OKS ones)

Honeybadger (not really sure, never used it)

It seems like this mod is having all sorts of issues with bugs and balance.  The ruling is a no for now but I'll check on it again once the problems are sorted out.

 

6 hours ago, JacobJHC said:

@sdj64 I am working on a delta-v map for the approximate amount of delta-v required to complete the challenge, although it requires one to visit the moons in a specific order, I have the orbital requirements done and am working on the rough lander requirements and was wondering if you would want to use it for anything regarding this challenge. I based my calculations of of my challenge submission. I also rounded up for a safety margin. 

Cool and good work, the numbers look mostly right to me.  Though right now it's only useful for doing the moons in the order you did them.  For example, if you wanted to do Tylo first you would have a much different map.  When it's finished I can provide a link in the main post.

Delta V for the landings, starting in low orbit:  Tylo = 5500, Laythe = 3000, Vall = 2400, Bop = 300, Pol = 200

These should give a bit of safety margin, Tylo especially can be done for much less if you're a good pilot.

 

[Norcurion]

I've got 2 requests.

1)Can you put [x]Science onto the mod list?

[x]Science

It's a pure informative mod that shows which science you've already done, no matter if it's stored in any ship or returned to the KSC.

I am a little bit messy/confused person and it would help me alot.

 

2) Does things like that thud count as part clipping? Strictly speaking it would violate the Tank/Engine-Partclipping rule,

but i've got some things like that that are mostly just visual improvements and would like to keep them

Edited May 30, 2016 by Norcurion

[DaMachinator]

On 5/28/2016 at 8:33 AM, eloquentJane said:

Oh the honeybadger parts are nice, they're great for huge rovers, heavy lifters, and inter-planetary freighters. I doubt the mod will be allowed though because the honeybadger part set also includes powerful turbofans that don't consume any fuel (although they do consume electric charge).

forgot about those, although i've never had luck with a honeybadger VTOL

[GwynJHawke]

I'm making a stock attempt of jool 5 in 1.0.5. Going to try a level three attempt (5 kerbals, a full time pilot with the others taking turns). My biggest issue so far is designing my ship. I've come up with 5 different designs and scrapped all 5 due to each design having too much dead weight.  Any suggestions on how to minimize my non-fuel mass? I'd appreciate some direction and suggestion.

I should mention the overall design I'm working around though. I have a detachable heat shield section comprised of multiple heat shields at the front of the ship. Linked to that via large docking port is a simple hitchhiker crew container. Linked to that, via large docking port, is the main fuel section containing a 2.5 to Mk.3 addapter, Mk. 3 monoprop tank, Mk. 3 to 3.5 adapter, the smallest 3.5 fuel module, and the rest is stepped back down in reverse order. That's then linked via large docking port to my lander for all 5 moons and also the main engine drive for the entire ship. Its a Mk.2 lander can, large reaction wheel, 2.5 utility bay filled with batteries, a full scientific instrument arrary, small monoprop tanks, and a pair of RTGs, folloeed by a large orange tank with a poodle engine attached with six dart engies attached radially with large 1.5 meter tanks.  It also has 4 drouge and radial parachutes to slow the lander on Laythe.

[Planet Destroyer]

I destroyed the universe. All the backup Jools are gone! Luckily we have multiple backup Jools in storage just for this purpose.  Every few months the Kraken eats Jool and takes its place, but no one notices because it's the same color and shape.  Then we tell him to move along and he eventually leaves but not without changing some of the physics first, and we put in a new Jool to replace the one that was eaten.  When this happens, we increment the number in the bottom right corner of the main menu screen...

Edited June 1, 2016 by Planet Destroyer
Needed a quote

[samamstar]

On level 3:

I'm considering doing a mission where my lander fits 1 kerbal, but my mothership lands to refuel. Tylo and laythe would only have 1 kerbal land, but all 5 would land on Pol, Bop, and Val. Would this still qualify for level 3? Or would it only be level 2?