[1.8.1] ETT - Engineering Tech Tree - May 4, 2020

[inigma]

@Probus would you be interested in having ETT adopted as one of the base tech trees for the Community Career Framework project?

I want to invite you personally to join in on it, and if not, to at least join in on the discussion and give us permission to fork ETT, or else request github pushes.

Edited December 24, 2015 by inigma

[legoclone09]

@Probus Also the fairings for TantaresLV are in the Biplanes node, maybe you can move them to the node with all the other 1.25m fairings?

[Probus]

18 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

@Probus Also the fairings for TantaresLV are in the Biplanes node, maybe you can move them to the node with all the other 1.25m fairings?

Thanks legoclone09,

I am off this week and plan on scrubbing the tree for any new parts added or ones that I missed. Also checkout CCF! 

[legoclone09]

Ok, also I've been watching CCF, been active in the thread. It's a great idea!

[Praetorian]

I must be missing something, but I swear I cannot find the mystery goo in the tech tree

[theonegalen]

One should not install this alongside CTT, correct? Just one or the other?

[legoclone09]

8 hours ago, Praetorian said:

I must be missing something, but I swear I cannot find the mystery goo in the tech tree

It's up near Nuclear Fission, the early one I think. Look around there.

 

1 hour ago, theonegalen said:

One should not install this alongside CTT, correct? Just one or the other?

Yes, just one or the other.

 

I wonder what that would look like...

[Probus]

I overwrite all the CTT nodes so you can have both installed. This is because some mods require CTT. 

[lordcirth]

Just started a new Career in 1.0.4 with ETT, Atomic Age, and DMagic Orbital Science.  Looks pretty cool so far.  But I have some questions:

Why is DMagic's Micro Goo filed under Nuclear Fuel Systems?  

Where is the 2HOT thermometer?  Got it, Basic Science -> Thermodynamics.  I don't think the Wing icon is the best, maybe the Flame icon?

Why is the surface ore scanner 5 Science when the ISRU it goes with is 550?

Edited December 30, 2015 by lordcirth

[Mister Spock]

My guess is that the Goo is generally associated with radioactive things.  I rather like the idea that Goo is a bit nasty!  But it's Probus's mod, so he may have a better explanation than my guess.

[Probus]

11 hours ago, lordcirth said:

Just started a new Career in 1.0.4 with ETT, Atomic Age, and DMagic Orbital Science.  Looks pretty cool so far.  But I have some questions:

Why is DMagic's Micro Goo filed under Nuclear Fuel Systems?  

Where is the 2HOT thermometer?  Got it, Basic Science -> Thermodynamics.  I don't think the Wing icon is the best, maybe the Flame icon?

Why is the surface ore scanner 5 Science when the ISRU it goes with is 550?

Mr Spock is correct.  I thought the goo to be rather radioactive and created in a lab.  As for the scanner, I think you're right, I should probably move it to a new node.  Where do you guys think it should go?

[legoclone09]

2 hours ago, Probus said:

Mr Spock is correct.  I thought the goo to be rather radioactive and created in a lab.  As for the scanner, I think you're right, I should probably move it to a new node.  Where do you guys think it should go?

I think maybe the node before ISRU or in the ISRU node, or maybe a new node with scanners.

[lordcirth]

Continuing my career, I notice that there are very few Science instruments available at the beginning.  It's also kinda strange to get the Science Jr well before the Goo, but it's not really a bad thing.  You didn't rebalance the Science payouts, right?  So the 5+10 cost Science Jr is worth more than the 10+100 cost Goo?

[Probus]

1 hour ago, lordcirth said:

Continuing my career, I notice that there are very few Science instruments available at the beginning.  It's also kinda strange to get the Science Jr well before the Goo, but it's not really a bad thing.  You didn't rebalance the Science payouts, right?  So the 5+10 cost Science Jr is worth more than the 10+100 cost Goo?

lordcith,

  Are you playing with DMagic Orbital Science?  I have tried to make the beginning quite challenging.

  I marginalized the goo, way back, on purpose since it wasn't really an engineering science experiment.  What would be good is if I changed it from goo to something radioactive related.

[lordcirth]

On 01/01/2016 at 7:15 PM, Probus said:

lordcith,

  Are you playing with DMagic Orbital Science?  I have tried to make the beginning quite challenging.

  I marginalized the goo, way back, on purpose since it wasn't really an engineering science experiment.  What would be good is if I changed it from goo to something radioactive related.

Yes, I'm using DMagic Orbital Science, for the first time.  The beginning is indeed hard, but unevenly so.  I think I prefer the steadier ramp-up of stock's tech tree, though it certainly has its flaws.  What I'm really looking for is a tech tree that makes sense in Hard mode, since I like the idea but playing Hard mode with crew aboard on your first launch doesn't make sense to me.  Better Than Starting Manned completely railroads the early game.  Unmanned Before Manned is ok but it's not different enough to start a new save.

[Probus]

lordcith,

  I would love to hear some suggestions on how to start the tree with a better experiment ramp-up.  What are ya thinking of?

 

[Probus]

I REALLY need to work on the space station/planetary base branches.  For the most part, it appears they are just placeholders that I forgot about. 

[odya-kun]

Hi. I made a quick adaptation for USI Life Support. Should i create a pull request on GutHub? Here is the code:
 

//--- ETT patch for USI Life Support ---\\

//---Life Support MiniPak
@PART[LifeSupportMiniPack]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = spaceExploration
}

//---Life Support MiniPak (Fertilizer)
@PART[FertilizerMiniPack]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = advExploration
}

//---Life Support MiniPak (Mulch)
@PART[MulchMiniPack]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}

//---Life Support Tank (1.25)
@PART[LS_Tank_125]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = advExploration
}

//---Life Support Tank (2.5)
@PART[LS_Tank_250]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}

//---Life Support Tank (3.75)
@PART[LS_Tank_375]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}

//---Nom-O-Matic 5000
@PART[USILS_Greenhouse]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}

//---Nom-O-Matic 25000
@PART[USILS_Greenhouse_LG]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}

Also i propose to move MRS Guidance Nose-Cone to "Probes 2" node. Because it has 100 elecricity & 3 torque. It is too much for "start" node.

//-- Modular Rocket Systems (fixes to ETT)

@PART[NBprobeCone1m]:NEEDS[zETT]:FINAL
{
	@TechRequired = KETT_1779
}

 

[Probus]

Nah.  I will just put it in the CFG right now.  Its almost ready to be released this month.

Grrrr....  You caught the MRS nose cone "cheat".  I always go for that first so I haven't moved it.  This will make it a bit more balanced. *pain*

Thanks odya-kun!

Edited January 8, 2016 by Probus

[Probus]

Going to have to branch off plasma thrusters.  Should ion engines be required before plasma thrusters.  Does anyone know?

[inigma]

18 minutes ago, Probus said:

Going to have to branch off plasma thrusters.  Should ion engines be required before plasma thrusters.  Does anyone know?

Ion before plasma yes.

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hello,

So I am looking at these tech trees and CFF.

I have played KSP realism for quite a while and as a vested player in the game, looking at what other realistic players might want out of the game, I see for example, too much confusion and in fact freedom for a player.

I would think most players dont want such freedom to do whatever that is like you say flying before they can walk. While this is fine maybe there should be larger blocks/nodes at first then go out from there?

The whole Mechanical node section can be replaced by Construction...small, medium, large. Mechanical Engineering implies research not building.

One should have to research before building as well; this tree in my opinion does not look like a standard.

The other problem here is getting modders to make part patches for every tree under the sun (now this has to be done in 1.05 as there is no other way to port trees or graphically make then then import them); yes tech tree design and part implementation has gone from bad to worse.

I was under the impression that the modded tech trees were supposed to augment and add to the Stock Tree, not replace it, including the positioning of the nodes (?); this tech tree does not follow this convention.

Commander Zeta

[odya-kun]

Guys, do you have any thoughts (configs?) about UKS integration? I made a very draft config (without Extraplanetary Launchpads yet). Mostly cloned from CTT one, but with some fixes.

@PART[MKV_*]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}

@PART[MKS_Aeroponics]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = hydroponics
}
@PART[MKS_375_OCTO]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OctoLander]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[MK3_Refinery]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = colonization
}
@PART[MK3_FuelRefinery]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = colonization
}
@PART[MK3_Fabricator]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = orbitalAssembly
}
@PART[MKS_LogisticsHub]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = logistics
}
@PART[MKS_EL_LaunchPad]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = orbitalMegastructures
}
@PART[MKS_EL_OrbitalDock]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
     @TechRequired = orbitalMegastructures
}
@PART[OKS_Workspace]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}

@PART[OKS_Tube_Lg]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OKS_Tube]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_Storage_ILM]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = logistics
}
@PART[OKS_Storage_ILM]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = logistics
}
@PART[OKS_PDU]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = nuclearPower
}
@PART[MKS_PDU]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = nuclearPower
}
@PART[OKS_LgHub]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OKS_Hub]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OKS_Cap]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OKS_Kerbitat]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OKS_HabRing]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OKS_ColonyHub]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = simpleCommandModules
}
@PART[MKS_ColonyHub]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = simpleCommandModules
}
@PART[OKS_AgModule]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[OKS_Aeroponics]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = hydroponics
}

@PART[MKS_Kerbitat]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}

@PART[MKS_Workspace]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_ModuleBase]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_MobileBase]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = longTermHabitation
}

@PART[MKS_RigidTube]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_FlexOTube]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_ExpandoTube_XL]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_ExpandoTube4]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_ExpandoTube_Mini]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}
@PART[MKS_Antenna]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = experimentalScience
}
@PART[MKS_DockingPort]:NEEDS[zETT&UmbraSpaceIndustries]
{
    @TechRequired = shortTermHabitation
}

 

[Probus]

3 hours ago, Cdr_Zeta said:

Hello,

So I am looking at these tech trees and CFF.

I have played KSP realism for quite a while and as a vested player in the game, looking at what other realistic players might want out of the game, I see for example, too much confusion and in fact freedom for a player.

I agree.  To an inexperienced player this tree may be very confusing.  Ton an experienced player (my target audience) it is very balanced and straightforward.

I would think most players dont want such freedom to do whatever that is like you say flying before they can walk. While this is fine maybe there should be larger blocks/nodes at first then go out from there?

Freedom is what this tech tree is all about.  Take away the freedom to choose which engineering discipline you want to research and you might as well use one of the other trees.

The whole Mechanical node section can be replaced by Construction...small, medium, large. Mechanical Engineering implies research not building.

Semantics.  This is a tech tree.  We are using science/research points, therefore Engineering is the correct term.

One should have to research before building as well; this tree in my opinion does not look like a standard.

???

The other problem here is getting modders to make part patches for every tree under the sun (now this has to be done in 1.05 as there is no other way to port trees or graphically make then then import them); yes tech tree design and part implementation has gone from bad to worse.

I never expect modders to implement my tech tree.  That is what CTT is all about.  I create all the dependencies based on technical attributes.  I must disagree with that last statement.

I was under the impression that the modded tech trees were supposed to augment and add to the Stock Tree, not replace it, including the positioning of the nodes (?); this tech tree does not follow this convention.

I have no clue where you got that idea or convention.  This tree replaces the stock tree completely. In fact, that's why I made it and shared with the community.

Commander Zeta

Zeta, this tree is not everybody's cup of tea.  A lot of people like the concept, foreign as it may be to the stock tree.  Personally, I believe it would be nice if one could choose the type of tech tree you want to play straight from stock.  The tech tree can completely change your gameplay experience.

 

[Probus]

3 hours ago, odya-kun said:

Guys, do you have any thoughts (configs?) about UKS integration? I made a very draft config (without Extraplanetary Launchpads yet). Mostly cloned from CTT one, but with some fixes.

 

That looks really good odya-kun.  I am looking forward to integrating it to see how it fits!  I need to move some ETT nodes around for better base and colonization support.