PS4 Announcement Discussion

[Kuu Lightwing]

I find it very odd that a certain group are... maddened by the fact that these console-people are getting KSP for themselves. This group also tended to be mad when 1.0 came out... and .90, etc. etc. A little pattern is arising. It seems that they're also mad about the 'kiddos' from the PS4 community to plague the forum community... a bit hypocritical, don't ya think? Not to put labels on anyone. Just a little trend I've noticed over the months.

Frankly, I don't care if PS4 players get KSP or not, due to the fact that I own no consoles. And if SQUAD loses some dev time (which they will probably not), we have mods, do we not? Hopefully the port is decent enough to not be considered a failure. Good luck to SQUAD and the crew!

The main thing I'm "maddened" about is that "INCREDIBLE NEWS" are not all that incredible unless you own PS4 or plan to buy one. Otherwise they don't affect you IN THE BEST CASE. Plus there is a variety of things that could go wrong because of adaptation to PS4.

False hype is what pisses me off especially since a lot of people waiting for the gorram bugfix release. Had they just announced that, I would be more like "meh" and less like "Are you just trolling me?".

I also can't help but notice that usually devnotes are a bit more than a twitter message...

Edited June 17, 2015 by Kuu Lightwing

[qwertyx2y]

Welp, a Certain forum group is up in arms over an update again, looks like the forums are no-longer the 'Best Community' on the internet anymore, then again, they haven't been since 1.0 was announced...

With regards to the announcement, I think it's a good thing, the games reach will expand once again, to the reach of the non-PC gamer, I know a friend who will be interested, as he doesn't have a decent PC, only every PlayStation under the sun...

[Shpaget]

Without some quotes or links to back this up, It's just speculation to suggest bugfixes are delayed for any reason other than different bugs taking different amounts of developer time to understand and fix. The expected v1.0.3 patch has been undergoing extended testing, due to a modification of the heating system, affecting just about every part in the game. Squad was embarrassed by the need for v1.0.2, a mere 6 hours after v1.0.1 and doesn't wish to repeat that scenario.

You'll find that in one of my previous posts in this thread. Granted, the cause of delay is open for interpretation, but in the light of this announcement, that's my interpretation.

What "core features" do you think should have been implemented? I ask because sometimes what one player thinks is important, is more of a wish-list item, or some small feature Squad mentioned in the past and hoped to get to, "some day."

A nice delta V readout, both in VAB and on the go. Something like Kerbal Engineer Redux readout.

Radar altimeter outside the cockpit.

Support for long and multiple missions, in the style of Alarm Clock.

Fuel transfer for surface bases in close proximity, without having to dock or claw one into another.

With the change of nuke engines, the need to choose the ratio of fuel and oxidizer in the tanks.

Kerbals on EVA need proper 6 degree of freedom.

[Streetwind]

There is no outrage. Nobody is up in arms about it. We are having a critical, but polite, discussion.

Anyway, apparently it does affect PC version through delays to much needed bugfixes and continued non-implementation of core features that should have been implemented a year ago.

[Citation needed]

All I'm seeing so far is Squad saying "hey guys we partnered with this other company so they can port KSP to the Playstation for us, and they actually helped us a lot with the Unity 5 port in general", upon which the PC community responds with wild claims that development of the PC version is forever playing second fiddle at best, and utterly doomed at worst.

Every single statement like that in this thread has no factual basis whatsoever, underlined for emphasis. I'm not saying that I guarantee you that it is false, mind you; that would be equally unscientific. I'm just saying that nobody has a source to claim that it is true. None. Nada. Zilch. The one single source we have on this topic in fact states the exact opposite. Yet this thread, page after page, is filled with people treating it as fact. Why so? Because it is a convenient excuse for everyone with a personal agenda to jump up and shout "oh, so THAT's why <personal pet feature> was never implemented/bugfixed" and similar statements. Which makes about as much logical sense say saying "my car has a flat tire, therefore the government in this country is bad", but hey, at least a lot of people will read the poster's personal agenda now, and possibly repeat it...

Kerbal Space Program is a game about (among other things) physics and science. The community here claims for itself to be more mature than any other gaming community, because science and rational reasoning is said to be held in high regard by everyone. I'd like to implore everyone involved in this discussion to actually follow those claims with actions, and behave like rational human beings. This includes not building a "critical discussion" on the back of a logical fallacy, or by seeing one forum user say something and then repeating it blindly.

I have now read through all three threads on this topic in their entirety (this one, the devnotes, and the mini-FAQ blog post), and I have yet to see a single well-reasoned, fact-based argument for why having a PS4 version would in any way, shape or form negatively affect me as a PC player in the future.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Streetwind

[basic.syntax]

You'll find that in one of my previous posts in this thread. Granted, the cause of delay is open for interpretation, but in the light of this announcement, that's my interpretation.

Fair enough, I gave my opinion on 1.0.3, based on previous Devnotes and Squadcast comments. If you haven't seen these statements before, please check them out and see if they affect your opinion.

A nice delta V readout, both in VAB and on the go. Something like Kerbal Engineer Redux readout.

Radar altimeter outside the cockpit.

Support for long and multiple missions, in the style of Alarm Clock.

Fuel transfer for surface bases in close proximity, without having to dock or claw one into another.

With the change of nuke engines, the need to choose the ratio of fuel and oxidizer in the tanks.

Kerbals on EVA need proper 6 degree of freedom.

Delta-V indication was postponed out of 1.0 for more UI work related to Kerbal skills, but not forgotten, expected for v1.1.

Many of these features you list... are features I'd like to see as well. Something like KAC would be especially good to have in the Stock game. But I can't recall seeing them described in any Squad posting as a "core feature" - that they have failed to deliver. Only delta-V fits that scenario.

[Commander Jebidiah]

Max, you obviously are trying to avoid playing with only a controller, we want to see you play KSP with only a controller.

[Linear]

Can't imagine trying to click manoeuvre nodes while the patched conics are derping. Hard enough on PC.

[Shpaget]

I'm not saying they promised and failed to deliver, I'm saying those features are not here and are needed, and realistically could have been here long ago.

Just because they haven't mentioned something, it doesn't mean it's not needed.

From the technical standpoint, KAC is a very simple mod, yet it is exceptionally useful. Without this functionality you are basically forced to do one mission at the time, spending years of ingame time and missing many launch windows. The way I see it, the space agency simulation part of the game is done minimalistically, and this little feature would help in that sense.

[NovaSilisko]

I have now read through all three threads on this topic in their entirety (this one, the devnotes, and the mini-FAQ blog post), and I have yet to see a single well-reasoned, fact-based argument for why having a PS4 version would in any way, shape or form negatively affect me as a PC player in the future.

In the future, perhaps not much, depending on what limitations arise on the PS4 (and accordingly how much of a gulf between PC and PS4 versions will be allowed in terms of features). However, evidence does suggest toward it having affected development in the past - it's been stated clearly that this has been in the works for "months" now, before 1.0 release and possibly the beta release. Which implies this deal was the reason 1.0 was released so quickly after 0.90 - and accordingly why a number of things had to be pushed back from it to meet the release date they were inexplicably-til-now adamant on meeting.

That's where a good chunk of the frustration is coming from, if you ask me

Edited June 17, 2015 by NovaSilisko

[Scotius]

I was quite surprised by this news. KSP on Playstation...huh. But i'm not angry or particularly worried.

1. Other company will do the work. SQUAD will keep developing core game. Fine by me.

2. Controls. As some posters pointed out before, keyboard + mouse can be plugged into console. It will be one of first things a dedicated player will do.

3. Performance. There will be no mods to bring it down (because console ). Full stock game is not so taxing on the hardware as a game with 2+ gigabytes of mods installed. Plus the boost from Unity 5? I think SQUAD wouldn't jump into deep water without being sure it will work decently.

4. Mods. You all are aware that there is a good portion of people that play pure stock game on PC, don't you? Even more players use only support mods like Kerbal Engineer, Alarm Clock etc. If SQUAD adds similiar features to the core game (Finally. Seriously, get on it guys.) problem will be solved for many players from the get-go.

5. And those PS4 players who will want part packs, beautification mods and other features are always welcome to migrate to the Light Si...*cough* to the PC

6. Community\Forum. I distinctly remember a near panic that tends to sweep through the forum every time Pewdepie or other major YouTubers releases a video about KSP. "OhMahGawwdd! Teh noobs are coming!" Sounds familiar? But guess what - it did not happened. There is an influx of new players, but majority of them is just like forum long-timers: more or less obsessed, creative, sometimes prone to overreaction nerds Face it - the crowd you\we fear the most tends to not play games that force them to sit for an hour, meticulously piecing together 300+ parts interplanetary ship with sufficient TWR and dV budget to reach Jool and put a manned lander + rover on Laythe.

And those console players who enjoy such games deserve a chance to have fun in KSP, just as we do. In other words - relax, you lot!

[carlorizzante]

It sounds like a great news for KSP.

But I do not own a console. Personally I would like to see a stable version of KSP on OS X sometimes soon.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Also, probably the worst thing that could happen because of PS4 is this:

[basic.syntax]

Also, probably the worst thing that could happen because of PS4 is this: (screenshot of Skyrim UI)

Mu announced the UI for v1.1 on Unity 5 was getting an overhaul. I think there will have to be fly-out scrolling lists like in Skyrim, for things like Action groups on PS4. But, Squad would not dump keyboard shortcuts on PC just because of a fancy new optional UI, that also works well with consoles. If I can't push number keys on the PC for action groups in v1.1, I'll be annoyed. So annoyed, that I really don't expect Squad is going to risk that kind of forum rage, by removing keyboard shortcuts.

[malkuth]

So once they port this does these new guys do all the work with patches? For instance minecraft pc and minecraft Xbox are two completely different titles.

Or do they port your pc patches to playstation?

Just curious.

[Kuu Lightwing]

I really hope that UI would be designed for mouse first, and everything else second. What we have now is not perfect, but it's good enough. I really don't want VAB interface replaced with Skyrim-style scrool-a-lot menus...

[tutike2000]

I'm absolutely certain, that SQUAD wouldn't think about a PS4 port, if they wouldn't already have multithreaded physics up their sleeve.

Implementing multi-threaded physics would be a huge time consuming task, incredibly difficult if not near-impossible without re-writing the physics engine. And given the performance improvements you'd get out of it, Squad would have already mentioned it.

This either means that they haven't started implementing multi-threaded physics (which I'm sorry to say probably means they never will),

OR

They have and have kept quiet about it (seems very unlikely)

[WWEdeadman]

Honestly, I can't imagine playing the game with a PS4 controller. Anything I do with the Mouse on PC would be akward to do with either the sticks or the touch-pad or motion tracking or really any way of input with the DS4.

But anyway, I'll just keep to the PC for this one. Good luck with the PS4 launch though, Squad

[NovaSilisko]

Implementing multi-threaded physics would be a huge time consuming task, incredibly difficult if not near-impossible without re-writing the physics engine. And given the performance improvements you'd get out of it, Squad would have already mentioned it.

This either means that they haven't started implementing multi-threaded physics (which I'm sorry to say probably means they never will),

OR

They have and have kept quiet about it (seems very unlikely)

I can't remember - does the new version of PhysX with unity 5 have multithreading?

[tutike2000]

The only good thing about having another dev team work on this is that Squad isn't exactly experienced in making games, the current poor performance and awkward loading times proves it.

An experienced company wouldn't have focused on 32-bit. Would have loaded textures on-demand (if they did stick with 32-bit for whatever reason). Wouldn't have all those huge waiting/loading times when transitioning from VAB to KSC to Map to Flight etc

Another games studio would probably be able to help them a lot. However... this Flying Tiger studio doesn't exactly look like a good choice.

[Superfluous J]

However, evidence does suggest toward it having affected development in the past - it's been stated clearly that this has been in the works for "months" now, before 1.0 release and possibly the beta release. Which implies this deal was the reason 1.0 was released so quickly after 0.90 - and accordingly why a number of things had to be pushed back from it to meet the release date they were inexplicably-til-now adamant on meeting.

This doesn't mean that that it affected the "doneness" of the game as it stands right now. The fact that 1.0 came out missing key features - and with other key features put in poorly or underrepresented - actually implies to me that it did NOT affect the "timeline" (I put that in quotes because I agree with regex that there is no timeline for development) at all. All the PS4 deal affected was the numbering scheme.

If they didn't have any drive to get these sorts of deals, 0.90 would have been 0.26. If they didn't get the PS4 deal, 1.0 would have been 0.27 or 0.91.

Or we'd have gotten a full ISRU update as 0.91, an aerodynamics overhaul as 0.92, gotten a few hotfixes as 0.92.1, .2, and .3, and then 0.93 would update the heating system. And now we'd be wondering what they'd give us in 0.94, and if 0.95 would include Unity 5

[tutike2000]

I can't remember - does the new version of PhysX with unity 5 have multithreading?

It does. If Squad is indeed using the physics engine built into Unity, then this would probably be a 'quick' fix. Although who knows what side effects we'll have from the physics engine changing...

[basic.syntax]

I can't remember - does the new version of PhysX with unity 5 have multithreading?

Yes, check this post by Eric S.

[gogozerg]

I'll keep my mouth shut.

Lot of bad feelings about what the game now is and what it will never be because of Squad's strategy. But when such things happen, I prefer to tell myself there are more important things in life than the fate of a video game.

[MKI]

I think everyone forgets key aspect of the ps4 which is its touch pad, essentially making the game a laptop play through but with joysticks and triggers.

Controls won't be a problem I feel, if anything in concerned for mods and how they would transition since that is one big part of the game that won't be easily replicated in consoles.

[worir4]

I think everyone forgets key aspect of the ps4 which is its touch pad, essentially making the game a laptop play through but with joysticks and triggers.

Controls won't be a problem I feel, if anything in concerned for mods and how they would transition since that is one big part of the game that won't be easily replicated in consoles.

I guess it will be okay with a touch pad, however there are a lot of key bindings that they will have to put on just one controller.

My main concern are mods. If these come to PS4, they MUST be free, if not the KSP community is dead...