[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Mike`]

As i'm currently into building landers, i'd also vote for anything lander related.

Do you have any ideas/images regarding probe cores?

[Kuldaralagh]

hey, I'm having a few bugs that i did not have in a previous version.

first, some parts are without models. they used to have them.

example:

name = SSTU-SC-GEN-PDC

has this

model = SSTU/Assets/EmptyProxyModel

I know the custom probe core is also showing no model, so it must have the same holder. 

that is awful because I loved those two parts.

 

the other issue that i'm having that is killing me, whenever I add a capsule in the VAB, either the SC-B-CM or the SC-C-CM, I cant right click to configure them. it locks the game. 

i still am able to click on some of the functions of the part menu, but I cant click outside of the menu at all.

no idea what is causing that. could be compatibility with other mods. dunno.

I still have to do a fresh install and check it out if it works.

 any ideas?

 

edit. just did a fresh install with only sstu and still had the same results.

the cursor arrow goes green when I click anywhere and it does nothing.

I suppose it is something to do with features in the capsule, because I can configure the lander capsules, no problem.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Kuldaralagh

[tater]

[gmiddlemass]

7 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

 

• LC Fuel tank rework --
  • new fuel tank models,
  • new textures (with recoloring support and texture set support)
  • proper 'modular fuel tank' setup (top/bottom adapter selection)
  • proper octagonal engine mounts
• More ShipCore series pods (likely one at a time)
  • SC-M - Mercury
  • SC-G - Gemini
  • SC-D1 / D2 - SpaceX Dragon/Dragon2
  • SC-?? - Boeing capsule
• ProbeCore part series
  • Probe bodies
  • More solar panels
  • More RCS thrusters (mostly single-port thrusters, for main-engine use, but using RCS module)
  • A bit leery on starting work on these yet, as I would like to do a bit more concept development to see precisely what models and features are needed in this line of parts.

 

Suggestions / preferences / opinions?

Personally I would love to see the SpaceX Dragon/Dragon 2 stuff or more probe stuff as I do like my probes.

[Drakenex]

14 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Snipped

To keep it short, Like you've said, there a lot of the others, but an SSTU Dragon2 could be awesome.

[Shadowmage]

12 hours ago, Kuldaralagh said:

hey, I'm having a few bugs that i did not have in a previous version.

first, some parts are without models. they used to have them.

 

The problems you are reporting sound like either an install or mod-conflict issue.

Could you please upload the KSP.log file (found in the main KSP directory; upload it to a file-sharing site like drop-box, or open an issue ticket on github and attach it directly there)?

Won't be able to troubleshoot/debug the problem without at least that.

15 hours ago, Mike` said:

Do you have any ideas/images regarding probe cores?

The SC-PC-HECS2 part in the current release is pretty much what the probe-core series of parts would be all about -- a basic solid mesh for the 'bus' of the satellite, with various adapter selections, solar selections, rcs ports, etc.

As far as what the specific body/bus models would look like -- no clue yet, but probably fairly basic models (all the probe-ey bits would be added by the player / selected as options such as the solar panels).

[tater]

For reference:

huge images (vertical layout of crew pod compared to SSTU):

https://www.nasa.gov/images/content/327732main_jsc2007e113282_high.jpg

https://www.nasa.gov/images/content/327714main_jsc2007e113275_high.jpg

Russian lander design (could almost make this with SSTU now, actually...):

 

I tend to like "near future" concepts, though give the Apollo stuff, perhaps the never built  follow-on ideas from Apollo might be interesting (LEM base with cargo, I think they had a habitat concept, etc).

 

 

 

[Kuldaralagh]

12 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

The problems you are reporting sound like either an install or mod-conflict issue.

Yeah,  I think so too. I don't think it's conflict, as I have tried sstu on a fresh install. I'll go on and refresh my files from steam and download sstu again and see what gives.

If the problem persists I'll open the ticket on github.

But that still leaves me with the parts with a model holder. I mean the 

model = SSTU/Assets/EmptyProxyModel

line that I've pulled out from the .cfg file for the part. 

Are you working (or planning on working) on models for these? Or am I completely wrong and it's just happening on my copy?

Edited September 30, 2017 by Kuldaralagh

[Shadowmage]

59 minutes ago, Kuldaralagh said:

But that still leaves me with the parts with a model holder. I mean the 

model = SSTU/Assets/EmptyProxyModel

line that I've pulled out from the .cfg file for the part. 

That is completely normal and intended.  The model for those parts is created by the plugin.  (Edit:  KSP won't load a part unless it has some sort of model.  The empty placeholder is to get the part loaded, where the plugin takes over and creates the actual model based on the config / ui parameters.)

Which would point to it likely being a problem that is causing the plugin to fail for one reason or another.  Please add the log file to the github ticket and I can probably help you get it all sorted out.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Shadowmage

[Kuldaralagh]

32 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

That is completely normal and intended.  The model for those parts is created by the plugin.  (Edit:  KSP won't load a part unless it has some sort of model.  The empty placeholder is to get the part loaded, where the plugin takes over and creates the actual model based on the config / ui parameters.)

Which would point to it likely being a problem that is causing the plugin to fail for one reason or another.  Please add the log file to the github ticket and I can probably help you get it all sorted out.

makes perfect sense.

Im just finishing the new fresh install here and if the problem persists Ill post the log

[Sudragon]

If there were, say, an extra copy of ModuleManager 2.8.0 floating around in a subdirectory....would that cause problems?

Update: Grrr, One full reinstall and then I find the problem. Grumble. 

Notice: 

Has a copy of ModuleManager 2.8.0 floating inside its NEBULA directory (\gamedata\NEBULA). This will cause problems.

 

Update II: this has been fixed. Nothing to see here. These are not the droids you're looking for. We're all fine down here...How are you?

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Sudragon
Action taken

[Pappystein]

@Shadowmage

Didn't see any followup by you to your post asking for opinions on what is next.

I will rank em with some thoughts on each/most of the choice by my preference:

Most important:   LC tanks.   Like @tater the I like the LC tanks.  They are awesome for their intended use... and SOO usable in other situations (small looking tanks of large volume for space station comes to mind.     I just love them.   Truth be told, they are probably the 2nd most used part from SSTU in my campaigns (the first being your awesome looking but not broken docking-ports.)  

Second most important.:   Dragon.    However a request.  I assume the folding docking port cover would be used.   While real life has a 90 degree opening.   ASSUMING you model the part, could it be made to open 90 and then with a second click open to what ever the maximum angle to JUST clear the Dragon capsule (to allow more flexibility in docking.)   If that is to be a jettisoned part than please move along from these comments... as these comments are not the comments you are looking for.... *HAN SHOT FIRST!*

Third most important would be the Boeing CTS...    Although, admittedly, this is almost an ancillary/dark horse type of capsule since most "Commercial" ventures are leaning towards Dragon (besides DRAGON-RIDER sounds soo much more cooler than CTS mission pilot! )

Bottom of the barrel in my opinion is the Mc-D ships.   3 reasons.  

1. Of all of the real world produced space ships, Mercury and Gemini are in 3rd and 4th place across many mods for being built by my count.   Apollo is in 1st place. Soyuz appears to be second
2. Of all these capsules mentioned Mercury and Gemini are only useful in a total conversion of the game 
3. as much as I love the Mc-D space craft, you have already mentioned in earlier posts that bringing them to full fruition (Gemini family) might be a bridge too far other than basic capsule that flew the R/W Gemini missions.... this also reduces effectiveness of the capsule.

  I will be honest here.  I don't share your opinion on Stock-alike textures. BUT I understand your view on this subject.   You already mentioned re-skinning existing models via patch and additional texture files as being an option.   Might I suggest grabbing onto an existing mod that is UNDER DEVELOPMENT (please not a nearly dead necro mod for this.) for said re-texturing to your standard for textures on the Mc-D birds?

 

[Jimbodiah]

On 29-9-2017 at 2:10 PM, Drakenex said:

To keep it short, Like you've said, there a lot of the others, but an SSTU Dragon2 could be awesome.

Dragon 2 will never fly, haven't you been keeping up    It's the BFR junior now. But yeah, a propulsion landing pod would be cool    I actuall use the Kerbel Reusability Pack dragon boosters to land my pods without any chutes; just make sure to have 350-400 dV of fuel and it's awesome to see it land without a chute (high pucker factor)  

8 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I love the Mc-D space craft,

I keep thinking big macs and chicken nuggets... stahp!

[Drakenex]

34 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

Dragon 2 will never fly, haven't you been keeping up    It's the BFR junior now. But yeah, a propulsion landing pod would be cool    I actuall use the Kerbel Reusability Pack dragon boosters to land my pods without any chutes; just make sure to have 350-400 dV of fuel and it's awesome to see it land without a chute (high pucker factor)  

I keep thinking big macs and chicken nuggets... stahp!

ehhh hum... DragonV2 was already paid by NASA (8 initial flights) and developed in full by SpaceX, if everything keeps going as expected, it will be flying next year. Source? I work for the company who manufactures all Satcom systems for it to interact with NASA's TDRS network, and I'll be in charge (well, my team) of the Sat link-budgets.

NASA CCP

All Elon said was that BFR could be used to send astronauts and cargo to the ISS, and BFR is not even defined or have a final configuration.

[tater]

Yeah, I'd like to see "near future" crew stuff (landers, too) in the mix. Crew Dragon is of course super cool, but so is CST-100. I don't do spaceplanes, but Dream Chaser is certainly a follow-on to Shuttle, and the latter is in SSTU. There have been various Roscosmos Soyuz replacement floated (Federation?). It might be possible to make a more cylindrical orbital module for Soyuz and have a Chinese analog.

From a game standpoint, however, the "bang for the buck" factor isn't there. In that sense it's about covering uncovered ground. Commercial crew vehicles are 7 people. Orion is 6. Meaningful differences would require looking at duration, etc. Soyuz holds 2 in SSTU, 3 in RL (now), but it gives a variant crew option (1 in a mk1, 2 in Soyuz, 3 in Apollo, etc). More stuff is always cool, but given limited resources, it seems like the parts should be: 1. what shadowmage feels like playing with. 2. Assuming 1 is done, what adds the most options/variation per unit work.

@Drakenex, jimbo was joking about crew Dragon.

[Drakenex]

38 minutes ago, tater said:

@Drakenex, jimbo was joking about crew Dragon.

I know, I'm not angry, just overenthusiastic 

[tater]

I'd add that the biggest issue for SpaceX stuff in KSP is the utter inability to do what we all want to do with the system. I suppose the KSP way to land a booster would be to build a scale F9 stack, which would be grossly OP, and fly the booster into either a minimal orbit, or suborbital but capable of making one rev back to KSC (periapsis in atmosphere somewhere West of KSC). Put your US into a real orbit, then switch to the booster, and land it. (I've managed to boost S2 really high, then switch for landing, but it's a major PITA).

[Drakenex]

32 minutes ago, tater said:

I'd add that the biggest issue for SpaceX stuff in KSP is the utter inability to do what we all want to do with the system. I suppose the KSP way to land a booster would be to build a scale F9 stack, which would be grossly OP, and fly the booster into either a minimal orbit, or suborbital but capable of making one rev back to KSC (periapsis in atmosphere somewhere West of KSC). Put your US into a real orbit, then switch to the booster, and land it. (I've managed to boost S2 really high, then switch for landing, but it's a major PITA).

haha yes! Operating the Falcon 9 it's cooperative multiplayer business.

[Jimbodiah]

Tater gets me

Returning a realistic scale falcon 9 in stock is easy, RSS not so much: engines tend to flame out with ksp mechanics causing RUDs all over the place.

[tater]

I've returned them in even scaled up KSP (not RSS), but I have to abandon stage 2. I suppose I should put mechjeb on and try it some time, it's not like people pilot rockets by remote control...

[Jimbodiah]

Yeah, if you stay with stage 1 then stage 2 will not continue it's burn and drop down almost as fast as the first stage. If you want to return the first stage you can't burn too long to get the payload high enough and still have enough fuel left. There's a mod that allows you to go back to a previous save for things like this, but I'm not that set on doing both stages enough to try it. I like returning the first stage, but then my secon stage is just a dummy load.

[Shadowmage]

Updated release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.6.37.141

See link for downloads and change-log.  Mostly fixes to the SRBs (gimbal, effects), but also includes the new 'modular rcs' part-module for testing (8-way angled rcs block).

 

[Akira_R]

@Shadowmage If you're still looking for community input I personally would love to see a rework of the Lander series of parts, I already use the excrement out of them, so it would be great to see their features and textures/models brought up to the current SSTU standard, and I would like to second tater on seeing some Altair-ish designs(the current ones are already very close to this), and maybe some models/textures that look like they would be suitable for atmospheric landings for Duna trips.

I already pull Mercury and Gemini pods from BDB, and while the stock alike aesthetic does bother me I use them for such a short period of time in my career games that it doesn't really matter much to me.

As for probes I already use CA Probes Plus for all my probe needs, probes are one of the few places where I am totally ok with having part bloat, as I like all the diferent looking designs for my various probes.

Thanks so much for all the hard work, you've completely changed how I play KSP!

[tater]

The RCS stuff is going to be great, based upon the test version.

[Sudragon]

2 hours ago, tater said:

The RCS stuff is going to be great, based upon the test version.

Hypergolic RCS? yesssss, now my vessels need only one type of fuel. Makes logistics for the moon missions so much easier.