[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Duski]

Tried even running the mod on its own, cant even get past the loading screen. And yes I do have MM installed.

[JoseEduardo]

have you tried shift+delete your whole KSP folder and then install it from scratch?

[Duski]

Just now, JoseEduardo said:

have you tried shift+delete your whole KSP folder and then install it from scratch?

Yep, I fixed the stuck on loading screen anyway but the items still not showing on partslist. I'll try the previous version.

[JoseEduardo]

are you on Steam? if so, have you set it to NONE on the BETA tab?

EDIT: also, have you tried loading the game without any mod, 100% stock?

Edited October 28, 2016 by JoseEduardo

[blowfish]

Logs would answer many of these questions ... but since everyone, including the person with the issue, seems to be ok with just shooting in the dark, don't let me stop you!

Edited October 28, 2016 by blowfish

[tater]

Yeah, the initial problem report was entirely consistent with what we all saw with the previous release, hence my answer. Once that was off the table, it's not SSTU, it's something else (as the rest of us seem to be having no issues whatsoever). So as @blowfish said, post the log.

[Duski]

30 minutes ago, tater said:

Yeah, the initial problem report was entirely consistent with what we all saw with the previous release, hence my answer. Once that was off the table, it's not SSTU, it's something else (as the rest of us seem to be having no issues whatsoever). So as @blowfish said, post the log.

Ok, will have a look.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Duski

[Duski]

Never had to post a log file but anyone know a place to upload them?

[blowfish]

2 hours ago, Duski said:

Never had to post a log file but anyone know a place to upload them?

Google Drive or Dropbox are good options.  Make sure to share the file.

[Duski]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Lm99pMlyEtvk_TexOaewHST0Kmhl3pvUDGMh2_A-rgk/edit

Hope that helps.  

[Shadowmage]

4 hours ago, Duski said:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Lm99pMlyEtvk_TexOaewHST0Kmhl3pvUDGMh2_A-rgk/edit

Hope that helps.  

Well, it sort of helps.

It tells me that your game is not loading the model definition files for some reason.  Are you sure that you have the latest version of ModuleManager (2.7.1)?  I use Module-Manager callbacks to load and cache the model datas, so if MM is not loading properly then nothing else will either.

Sadly that log file appears to be missing the first 1/2 of the file, which contains all of the details regarding ModuleManager patches, OS, assembly errors, what ModelData entries were loaded, etc.  Do you have a complete log file that could be uploaded that contains the first portion of the log as well?

 

Edit:  One other possibility is it could be that the custom shaders are not setup properly for the OS/rendering in use -- again though, I would need the rest of the log file to know if that is the problem.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Shadowmage

[blowfish]

5 hours ago, Duski said:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Lm99pMlyEtvk_TexOaewHST0Kmhl3pvUDGMh2_A-rgk/edit

Hope that helps.  

Yeah, as Shadowmage said we kind of need to see the entire log.  I would recommend just uploading the file in its entirety rather than copy pasting into a document.

[Shadowmage]

A couple times I have mentioned 'non-inflatable centrifuge'/'non-torus centrifuge' parts, though I had never posted any examples of what they might look like.  So.. here is an example:

Anyhow, just a concept.  Not sure I like the design that much.  It is a bit novel, but also of potentially limited use.  It would have far less habitable space than a torus.  The one shown is a 5m outer diameter, with 2.5m core, so the extending bits are ~1.25m deep each.  Ends up being ~25m diameter when expanded.

In the end whether I do some of this type will come down to texturing -- if it can re-use the textures from the inflatable centrifuges (or at least the same texture sheet) then I'll likely make at least one variant.  If it would require new textures... I'll probably leave it as a concept for expansion in the future.

 

[Jimbodiah]

Hermes-esque.

BTW: Just realized you can now make an ATV clone out of just SSTU parts...

Spoiler

Yikes, non-sstu rcs blocks I just noticed.. but you get the jist of it.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[tater]

56 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

A couple times I have mentioned 'non-inflatable centrifuge'/'non-torus centrifuge' parts, though I had never posted any examples of what they might look like.  So.. here is an example:

Anyhow, just a concept.  Not sure I like the design that much.  It is a bit novel, but also of potentially limited use.  It would have far less habitable space than a torus.  The one shown is a 5m outer diameter, with 2.5m core, so the extending bits are ~1.25m deep each.  Ends up being ~25m diameter when expanded.

In the end whether I do some of this type will come down to texturing -- if it can re-use the textures from the inflatable centrifuges (or at least the same texture sheet) then I'll likely make at least one variant.  If it would require new textures... I'll probably leave it as a concept for expansion in the future.

 

There are examples of designs like this in NASA concept art, though they are usually cylinders with a normal to the circular cross-section in the radial direction. For the particular design you show, the curved floor would not be terribly desirable I would think since they are short enough segments that a flat floor would be more normal. I'd perhaps be inclined to make the hub smaller, and the radial bits deeper such that a flat floor could be superimposed inside, with the curved areas below forming presumed storage. 

If it works with off the shelf textures, it would be a neat design to have, though.

 

 

[Jimbodiah]

Use the tiling from the cylindrical habs/labs?

[cxg2827]

30 minutes ago, tater said:

For the particular design you show, the curved floor would not be terribly desirable I would think since they are short enough segments that a flat floor would be more normal.

My guess would be that the exterior is shaped to 5M radius, but the internal is designed with flat floors, or curved for 25M radius (though might lose some usable space to accommodate this).

As cool as this idea is, My question is how ~20m worth of crew tunnel/trussing for 4 of those would fit inside that 2.5M hub when stowed? Assuming the tunnel is inflatable, and wall thickness enough to be considered durable enough for deep space. I wouldn't think that kind of material would fold up very easily, or have a sharp bending radius.

[tater]

True, I forgot about the spokes...

[JoseEduardo]

19 minutes ago, cxg2827 said:

My guess would be that the exterior is shaped to 5M radius, but the internal is designed with flat floors, or curved for 25M radius (though might lose some usable space to accommodate this).

As cool as this idea is, My question is how ~20m worth of crew tunnel/trussing for 4 of those would fit inside that 2.5M hub when stowed? Assuming the tunnel is inflatable, and wall thickness enough to be considered durable enough for deep space. I wouldn't think that kind of material would fold up very easily, or have a sharp bending radius.

[Shadowmage]

17 minutes ago, cxg2827 said:

My guess would be that the exterior is shaped to 5M radius, but the internal is designed with flat floors, or curved for 25M radius (though might lose some usable space to accommodate this).

As cool as this idea is, My question is how ~20m worth of crew tunnel/trussing for 4 of those would fit inside that 2.5M hub when stowed? Assuming the tunnel is inflatable, and wall thickness enough to be considered durable enough for deep space. I wouldn't think that kind of material would fold up very easily, or have a sharp bending radius.

The same way that ~50m worth of truss is stuffed into the ISS-solar-array central tubes   Folded, rolled, and smashed as tightly as possible.

I watched a video of those things being deployed, and that was my exact question... how the heck did that giant truss come out of that tiny little can?  Never got a real answer (from an engineering standpoint), but if it is possible for those, I would reason that it is possible for other uses as well.  (Not the best video, but kind of shows what I was referring to)

The crew tube would be a bigger concern (as to how it might be packed into such a small area, considering a certain minimum wall-thickness is needed, and that wall-thickness could not be compacted/compressed).  Though I'm not really too worried about it; could always hand-wave away that it is all packed up into the central pillar area prior to deployment.

[Pappystein]

18 hours ago, blowfish said:

@Pappystein @Duski ModuleManager is designed to detect other versions of itself and only use the newest.  Deleting older versions never hurts though.

If you're getting errors on startup though, the only way to find out what's causing them is with logs.

@blowfish,That may be true, in theory, but I have never had it work that way.   I routinely have had Mod Manager running 2x at once (easy to tell, the text on the loading screen is lines written on-top of lines making them un-readable.  This ALWAYS produced an unstable KSP 1.0.5 back then

Edited October 28, 2016 by Pappystein

[cxg2827]

24 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

I watched a video of those things being deployed, and that was my exact question... how the heck did that giant truss come out of that tiny little can?  Never got a real answer (from an engineering standpoint), but if it is possible for those, I would reason that it is possible for other uses as well.  (Not the best video, but kind of shows what I was referring to)

The SAW truss will probably be the biggest mystery of my life . I would legit buy a beer for anyone who can actually explain the operation of how the truss compacts and then deploys from the can.

 

[Pappystein]

@Shadowmage

2 thoughts on the Solid Torus model you posted

1) 3.125 or 3.75m for more room?

2) many NASA Torus proposals were modified.  as 6, 8, 10 and 12 flat sided rings, often times with the livable space being attached to the outside of said flat sided rings....  It would be easier to build said flat rings and allow players to customize what payloads their particular  stations need.   You could make the Rigid torus a Structural ring that other modules are docked onto to create a large HAB / LAB area.   This gets around the perceived issue with expanding structures because instead of a full HAB or LAB space packed down, we are now just talking about a walk-way to the hab/lab modules that the player  builds up.   (Yes I realize that the existing DOS modules would actually be too long and have a greatly variable gravity)

 

A Small "Elevator" capsule could easily be used to transfer from the ring to the central node of the station further alleviating concerns about everything packed so tightly

 

 

2 minutes ago, cxg2827 said:

The SAW truss will probably be the biggest mystery of my life . I would legit buy a beer for anyone who can actually explain the operation of how the truss compacts and then deploys from the can.

 

FREE BEER! 

Ok, so remember that in Space we have to worry about the forces of Solar Wind, Gravity and Friction...  But only Friction is similar to what it would be on the Earth's surface and Solar wind would be replaced by real wind.

The Truss is made up of Helix shaped parts that interlock and when folded down lie both above and below but inside and outside of each other.  Much like a standard chain can fold up into a small package.   The Guide rails compact down like an old fashion (1970s old fashion) rabbit ear telescoping antenna.  The Helical chain parts are Connected to the Solar array on the inside,  The Telescoping Guide rails are attached via cables on sliding rings, to the outside of the Panel.     A Motive force is applied to the telescoping guide rails (not certain WHAT this force is but it could even be some form of intert gas or a worm gear and electric motor given how minute the opposing forces can be.)  The guide rails extend pushing the end cap out that is also attached to all the above parts.  the Central truss starts to follow and like a lego block locks in place when properly extended.

 

Over simplified and I am CERTAIN given the lighting that this was done on the Dark side of the planet (Sun opposite) and with the array pointing at earth for minimal solar wind activity and maximal boost from Gravity.

[tater]

It could always have a small component of required "rocket parts" to deploy. The spoke tubes would be too thin, then the crew adds an internal tube (the "parts". Since the rest is rigid, no other parts needed. There's my hand wave.

[Jimbodiah]

I have a weird thing happening, have not checked on a sstu-only save yet, but maybe someone has seen something similar:

Twice now I have had a part blow up on an approaching station while I was doing a burn to slow down from a rendevouz. First time two materials bays (SSTU-SC-GEN-RMB) exploded simultaneously and the second time an engine of a previously docked ship (SSTU-SC-ENG-LMAE). I was doing the burn 100-300m away from the station in question, but with engines (also sstu) pointing towards the station. The station was within the 2.2km render zone, but just coming into the final focus; the object you near always pauses for a split second a few hundred meters out (don't know exactly, but looks like between 500-1000m away).

Weird right?

Logs included:  KSP and output

I quit the game a few minutes later after finishing docking and checking what exploded but can not find anything relevant in the logs. At the end of the log I do see Stage Recovery throwing a few nullrefs as well which is caused by a previous stage re-entering and SR trying to recover it, but this happened on every launch I made today it seems and is not happening at the time I noticed the exploding parts. I've docked with the same station about 10 times so it seems to be randomly happening. Just now I removed StageRecovery and KerbalAlarmClock (also giving some nullrefs) to see if ti happens again without these two tampering, but as all the parts that exploded were SSTU parts and not any of the other mods... I don't know.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Jimbodiah