[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[Shadowmage]

13 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

@Shadowmage I know scaling does exist. For submodels position certainly does; for the root model, I don't know offhand.

And NP. Also, pinging @Porkjet since he's been doing a lot on IVAs, and because some of the stuff I wrote I wrote for him.

Ahh, yes, I forgot about the internalSpace.cfg stuff; there is certainly a MODEL node for the IVA model, but unsure if it supports the same operations as in the PART configs.  Will attempt to do some testing this evening.  And thanks btw for at least looking into it

 

 

And, updated render of SC-E with (hopefully) all decals in-place:

Fuselage decals are mirrored on the other side.  Any positions that I'm missing?  All decals are the same size (256x100), only the text differs; they are large enough that they could have some graphics added in place of the text if needed/wanted.  Decals will use a new custom module to allow for texture switching (or potentially updated/repuposed texture-switch module); fuselage has two such decal modules, one for the front decal, one for the rear decal.

Flags are standard KSP flag sized/setup (and will use the normal flag-switching module/setup)

[Jimbodiah]

Nah, I'll never do a shuttle, he said.

[Porkjet]

Since MODEL can be used to spawn meshes in IVA, they should be positionable with the additonal parameters, yea. I have never actually done that tho. Try it out.

Also, Dude, that shuttle looks awesome!!!

[Jimbodiah]

OMG, Porkjet.

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, Porkjet said:

Since MODEL can be used to spawn meshes in IVA, they should be positionable with the additonal parameters, yea. I have never actually done that tho. Try it out.

Also, Dude, that shuttle looks awesome!!!

Indeed, positioning the base model for an IVA does work with a MODEL node.  It doesn't move the props with it, so I'm working on a patch now to move them as well.  Thanks for the confirmation.

And thanks;  couldn't have done it without such an awesome game to work with though

 

 

After a bit of patching magic:

 

+INTERNAL[MK3_Cockpit_Int]:FOR[SSTU]
{
	@name = SC-E-FS-IVA
	@PROP[*],*
	{
		@position[1] += 1
		@position[2] += -13		
	}
	MODEL
	{
		model = Squad/Spaces/MK3CockpitInternal/MK3_Cockpit_Int
		position = 0, 1, -13
	}
}

The stock config lacks a MODEL node, but seems to accept having one manually defined just fine.  Have not tried the scale or rotation parameters, but I would expect they would work as well (with some extra math to reposition things properly, if needed/possible).

Now to create a couple 'ExtraKerbalSeatXXX' empty models with seat transforms and patch those in to add some extra capacity (along with patching in more seat props)

With this bit of knowledge, I should be able to adapt at least some stock IVAs for most existing parts that lack them.  Might not be entirely fitting, but better than nothing.

 

 

Thanks for the help and info NathanKell and Porkjet; is much appreciated, I likely would have never thought of trying it that way.

[davidy12]

@Shadowmage:Just delete the slashes of seat 6 and 7. 

If you can make the Mk1-2 3 abreast side by side seating, THAT'D BE AWESOME!!!!

[Sudragon]

Are you jumping on the beta prerelease of 1.1 to have SSTU ready for 1.1 offical release?

[Shadowmage]

37 minutes ago, davidy12 said:

@Shadowmage:Just delete the slashes of seat 6 and 7. 

If you can make the Mk1-2 3 abreast side by side seating, THAT'D BE AWESOME!!!!

 

There is a 7th seat squished back there on the far left that you can barely see (inside the cargo bags=\ going to fix that...) (this is using my custom patched-in extra-kerbal-seat model transforms that I mentioned earlier)

A bit cramped as it is all a single-deck; but they fit.. mostly.

Edit:  Yes, this means I can potentially (re) position the seats for custom IVA reworks... with a bit of.. work and effort.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Sudragon said:

Are you jumping on the beta prerelease of 1.1 to have SSTU ready for 1.1 offical release?

 

I was not aware that such a thing was available; bit if it were / is, I would gladly start working on the update now as I'm sure it'll take me a few weeks to get everything done.  (If you have any information about it, please share )

Edited March 3, 2016 by Shadowmage

[Sudragon]

1 minute ago, Shadowmage said:

 

There is a 7th seat squished back there on the far left that you can barely see (inside the cargo bags=\ going to fix that...) (this is using my custom patched-in extra-kerbal-seat model transforms that I mentioned earlier)

A bit cramped as it is all a single-deck; but they fit.. mostly.

 

 

 

I was not aware that such a thing was available; bit if it were / is, I would gladly start working on the update now as I'm sure it'll take me a few weeks to get everything done.  (If you have any information about it, please share )

Main page of the site. Top of the page. Devblog. Coming on Steam.

[Jimbodiah]

Maybe one of the Squad staff @NathanKell could get you early access, being a modder.

[blowfish]

@Jimbodiah I just modified my rescale settings to 3.2x and tried getting the Soyuz capsule to orbit.  And honestly, using the soyuz launcher and a single RL10-A-3 upper stage, I was having trouble making it small enough.  Even with a high liftoff TWR I ended up with over 1 km/s of leftover delta-v after making a 180 km orbit around Kerbin.  So I'm entirely unsure of why you think more thrust is needed.

E: Oh and @Shadowmage I think the Soyuz service module could have its thrust cut by at least a factor of 2 - It's like 0.66 with the orbital and descent modules as it is which is way more than necessary for orbital operations.

Edited March 3, 2016 by blowfish

[Jimbodiah]

Rescaled what, the tanks/eningines, or just the thrust?  

If I take a single RL10A3 and the smallest upper stage, I barely make the next peninsula across of KSC, let alone orbit. Total dV is around 5100m/s not counting the SM itself, which is around 500-900m/s short with proper TWR. With one engine, first stage lets go around 79-80km up, and the second stage does not go higher than 90km before dropping back down again (TWR 0.45).  I need a pretty long second stage to reach 180km, and a second or third RL10A3 to compensate for the extra tank weight and time needed to get that up to escape velocity before dropping back into the atmosphere. Not mentioning that the extra weight bogs down the first stage's dV. 

Are we playing the same scale here?

Edited March 3, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[blowfish]

1 minute ago, Jimbodiah said:

Rescaled what, the tanks/eningines, or just the thrust?  

If I take a single RL10A3 and the smallest upper stage, I barely make the next peninsula across of KSC, let alone orbit. Total dV is around 5100m/s not counting the SM itself, which is around 500-900m/s short with proper TWR. I need a pretty long second stage to reach 180km, and a second or third RL10A3 to compensate for the extra tank weight and time needed to get that up to escape velocity before dropping back into the atmosphere. Not mentioning that the extra weight bogs down the first stage's dV. 

Are we playing the same scale here?

Rescaling the solar system.  Parts remain with their default balancing, including the LH2 patches.  Delta-V to orbit is about 5.5 km/s, so I believe the scale is being done correctly.  You can see the craft, including its delta-v and TWR distribution here, and the final orbit here.

[Jimbodiah]

That is not the shortest tank   That is about what I am using with 2x RL10A3. What angle do you use to get into orbit?

My setup with 3x RL10A3 and a bit longer tank: I can just get the apoapsis up in time while dropping down from 95km to 86km before coasting to the other side of kerbin at 180km to circularize. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[blowfish]

4 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

That is not the shortest tank   That is about what I am using with 2x RL10A3. What angle do you use to get into orbit?

And why would I want the shortest tank?  I was initially about 5-10 degrees above prograde, but that actually proved excessive.  Your time to apoapsis just has to be about half your burn time.

[Jimbodiah]

1 hour ago, blowfish said:

And honestly, using the soyuz launcher and a single RL10-A-3 upper stage, I was having trouble making it small enough.

I read that as being minimum length, otherwise you would not have trouble making it smaller 

PS: I just tried 5 different approaches to getting into orbit with a single engine, even straight up to ~140km and then trying to circularize, but I never make orbit, even with the 27% patch I made. I also notice you have around 1100dV more than I do with the same setup (one engine and same length tank).

Edited March 3, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[blowfish]

@Jimbodiah Okay, clearly there is some discrepancy here.  My upper stage tank contains 7110 units of LH2 and 474 units of oxidizer, and masses 0.43t dry (this is a 4.0875 x 1.875m tank with the flat mount).  The mass numbers that MechJeb is reporting are slightly different than those that RCS Build Aid and the Engineering Report are saying, but of any of those I'd trust MechJeb (and it seems to be right - the discrepancy is in the engine but MJ seems to report it correctly).  The reported delta-v and TWR are consistent with the stats of the engine (27 kN and 450s I_sp).  Does anything here not match up with what you see?

EDIT: here is my test craft, for what it's worth.  Maybe you could load it and see if it produces any discrepancies with the numbers MechJeb shows in my screenshot.  I could try the same for yours.

Edited March 3, 2016 by blowfish

[ComatoseJedi]

ADD MOAR BOOSTERS.. problem solved

[davidy12]

14 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Yes, this means I can potentially (re) position the seats for custom IVA reworks... with a bit of.. work and effort.

If you could make a stock remake of re-adjusting the stock Mk1-2 CM IVA...  

I'd DIE of happiness. I'm so tired of the 2 abreast one below layout.

 

Edited March 3, 2016 by davidy12

[JoseEduardo]

15 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

I was not aware that such a thing was available; bit if it were / is, I would gladly start working on the update now as I'm sure it'll take me a few weeks to get everything done.  (If you have any information about it, please share )

will be available through steam for anyone who bought it on steam, they will announce when the beta will start

[tater]

1 hour ago, davidy12 said:

If you could make a stock remake of re-adjusting the stock Mk1-2 CM IVA...  

I'd DIE of happiness. I'm so tired of the 2 abreast one below layout.

 

Can 3 abreast actually fit with their giant helmets?

[davidy12]

Just now, tater said:

Can 3 abreast actually fit with their giant helmets?

From my POV, It's close, but yes.

[Jimbodiah]

HAH, I can actually make the SD HLLV with the E fuselage...

[Shadowmage]

22 hours ago, blowfish said:

@Jimbodiah I just modified my rescale settings to 3.2x and tried getting the Soyuz capsule to orbit.  And honestly, using the soyuz launcher and a single RL10-A-3 upper stage, I was having trouble making it small enough.  Even with a high liftoff TWR I ended up with over 1 km/s of leftover delta-v after making a 180 km orbit around Kerbin.  So I'm entirely unsure of why you think more thrust is needed.

E: Oh and @Shadowmage I think the Soyuz service module could have its thrust cut by at least a factor of 2 - It's like 0.66 with the orbital and descent modules as it is which is way more than necessary for orbital operations.

Noted and added to the todo-list; you have any stats on what the real thrust of it would be?

 

7 hours ago, JoseEduardo said:

will be available through steam for anyone who bought it on steam, they will announce when the beta will start

Noted, and good to know   I don't check the front page very often.

 

23 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

Maybe one of the Squad staff @NathanKell could get you early access, being a modder.

Thanks, but apparently I'll be able to get at least a bit of a head-start via the steam pre-releases; I've still got plenty of stuff to finish-up in the mean-time, so no rush

 

9 hours ago, davidy12 said:

If you could make a stock remake of re-adjusting the stock Mk1-2 CM IVA...  

I'd DIE of happiness. I'm so tired of the 2 abreast one below layout.

 

How about I give you the tools, and an example, and you can do the work yourself   I really have no desire to go reworking stock IVAs any more than I need to.  If/when I update the stock IVA for the SC-A parts I'll look into it, but that might be awhile.

[Shadowmage]

Someone wlll probably like this one: