Top Gun AI - The Official Tournament Thread

[GDJ]

Oh, just a small clarification:

All guns that can rotate (M230) has to be locked forward, 0/0/0, right?

EDIT: Nevermind. Had to re-read the fine print. Creative already answered my question.

Edited January 7, 2016 by GDJ

[CreativeCombat]

2 hours ago, Zahida said:

Question, when you say no clipping wings, does that include stuff like this? There is a small amount of clipping for aesthetic purposes (ignore the weapons, this was posted before the new rules, I won't be entering this particular aircraft).

This is an acceptable amount of clipping. 

1 hour ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Here's one variant using 4 NCS adapters exclusively as structural fuselage components, however I have been experimenting with other designs using the same idea.

CANUKWorks DF-47 Happy Tail

 

This is too much clipping, especially the NCS adapter clipped into the radome and the fuselage since they provide armor for the radome and fuselage. 

9 minutes ago, Triop said:

Missed me? My PC went fifty shades of grey...  Probably misspelled all of that

Anyway, hard at work!

It needs tests but it looks promising

 

I can't tell for sure because of the Bi-Coupler but those wings look like they might be clipped inside the fuselage.  If they are, please move them out to the side.  

 

All else looks good. 

[Triop]

21 minutes ago, CreativeCombat said:

I can't tell for sure because of the Bi-Coupler but those wings look like they might be clipped inside the fuselage.  If they are, please move them out to the side.  

 

All else looks good. 

Wut ?

Edit, Uhm,I know what you mean, but I never entered your "side contest"....

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by Triop

[Zahida]

A sneaky sneak peak at one of my aircraft which is being tested against the MiG-15.This one's gonna be fun!

Edited January 7, 2016 by Zahida

[Triop]

12 minutes ago, Zahida said:

A sneaky sneak peak at one of my aircraft which is being tested against the MiG-15.This one's gonna be fun!

Wait...who's MiG 15 ?

[Zahida]

13 minutes ago, Triop said:

Wait...who's MiG 15 ?

After some digging, I found that it is yours o.o I've also been testing against the El Quicko and some of my other aircraft.

[Triop]

2 minutes ago, Zahida said:

After some digging, I found that it is yours o.o I've also been testing against the El Quicko and some of my other aircraft.

Owwww, you are up for some fun                       

Edited January 7, 2016 by Triop

[SasquatchM]

I am starting to think that it may be worth while to start a combat craft sharing thread instead of filling up the Top Gun thread

[Triop]

Just now, SasquatchM said:

I am starting to think that it may be worth while to start a combat craft sharing thread instead of filling up the Top Gun thread

Agreed, green light, do it.

[SasquatchM]

7 minutes ago, Triop said:

Agreed, green light, do it.

Should it still be in the challenges section, as the craft, at least nominally, are for the purpose of fighting in the tournament or should we start it in ye old craft sharing threads?

[BlueCanary]

@CreativeCombat how's this on your wing clipping rules? There's quite a bit of clipping but it doesn't really give any advantage other than making the design possible, nothing is armoured and it's not getting silly in terms of fuel volume,

EDIT: Also, are you sure 5 fights is enough? With very closely matched planes like the Anduril and El Quicko, I've had one be winning after five fights but by seven the other has overtaken and by nine be the decisive winner, and with very maneuverable fighters like those two you can expect at least two mid-air collisions, further messing up the result. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by BlueCanary

[CreativeCombat]

If any of you would like to suggest visual mods to be applied to the tournament, such as Collision FX or KerbPaint, please do so now.  If you like, you may also provide HyperEdit coordinates to locations you would like to see matches held at such as the desert or the north pole.  Not all HyperEdit coordinates will be used due to the difficulty of setting up planes at new coordinates, but I'd like to switch locations at least once between the finals and semifinals, and hopefully a few more times in the matches leading up to those. 

8 hours ago, BlueCanary said:

@CreativeCombat how's this on your wing clipping rules? There's quite a bit of clipping but it doesn't really give any advantage other than making the design possible, nothing is armoured and it's not getting silly in terms of fuel volume,

EDIT: Also, are you sure 5 fights is enough? With very closely matched planes like the Anduril and El Quicko, I've had one be winning after five fights but by seven the other has overtaken and by nine be the decisive winner, and with very maneuverable fighters like those two you can expect at least two mid-air collisions, further messing up the result. 

The tail plane connectors being clipped into the wings is fine because they're structural components.  The canards at the front look okay because they seem to be placed above and below each other as opposed to inside each other, which is completely fine.  The delta wings that are clipped into each other are not okay because it makes the plane thinner, and thus harder to hit, without losing the lift it would if the wings were smaller.  If they were offset out to the side until the inner edges of their wings were touching, but not merged into each other, that would be okay.  If you can't offset them out that far, then either use the rotate-offset-rotate glitch to increase your offset range or attach the wings to struts, and the struts to whatever the wings were attached to originally in order to increase the offset range as was done in days of yore.  The wing strakes being clipped into the delta wings is not acceptable because it makes the plane a smaller target while also moving the CoL back and increasing total lift by means of the wing strake.  If the strake was offset down relative to the cockpit a little way and the delta wing offset up so they're not clipped into each other it would be okay.  

I like the way you've used wings to contain the fuel instead of a fuselage.  That's a neat idea and I think it'll give this plane an edge in combat since that will give it a much better lift to mass ratio than its opponents, making it lighter, faster, and more maneuverable. 

 

As to your second statement, it took on average ~10 minutes to film each match in the previous tournament I held.  It's going to take even longer without missiles because now planes can't just obliterate each other immediately after takeoff.  It took an additional ~20 minutes to get each plane into position and oriented correctly, though it won't take as long in the new tournament since most of it won't be held at the north pole, and I only had to do that once for each match because of quicksaving.  That means each match in the new tournament is going to take one to one and a half hours to do, and if this was a best of nine it would take twice that time, not accounting for technical difficulties.  Therefore, it's not that I wouldn't prefer there to be more rounds, it's that I personally as a tournament host am unwilling to do more than five rounds per match, at least until I get faster at it and better at filming.  My apologies. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by CreativeCombat

[BlueCanary]

7 hours ago, CreativeCombat said:

 

The tail plane connectors being clipped into the wings is fine because they're structural components.  The canards at the front look okay because they seem to be placed above and below each other as opposed to inside each other, which is completely fine.  The delta wings that are clipped into each other are not okay because it makes the plane thinner, and thus harder to hit, without losing the lift it would if the wings were smaller.  If they were offset out to the side until the inner edges of their wings were touching, but not merged into each other, that would be okay.  If you can't offset them out that far, then either use the rotate-offset-rotate glitch to increase your offset range or attach the wings to struts, and the struts to whatever the wings were attached to originally in order to increase the offset range as was done in days of yore.  The wing strakes being clipped into the delta wings is not acceptable because it makes the plane a smaller target while also moving the CoL back and increasing total lift by means of the wing strake.  If the strake was offset down relative to the cockpit a little way and the delta wing offset up so they're not clipped into each other it would be okay.  

I like the way you've used wings to contain the fuel instead of a fuselage.  That's a neat idea and I think it'll give this plane an edge in combat since that will give it a much better lift to mass ratio than its opponents, making it lighter, faster, and more maneuverable. 

That's fine, I'll probably make a new plane since I can't really do much to that one without completely changing the aeasthetics and performance - there isn't actually anywhere to offset those wings or strakes. Are you sure about the wings though, because they're slightly angled to stop Z-fighting there's actually only about half a metre of each embedded in each other, not much more than with Zahida's CF-59 Naga. Similarly with the strakes, probably only a third of them is hidden.

[CreativeCombat]

On 1/8/2016 at 11:49 PM, BlueCanary said:

That's fine, I'll probably make a new plane since I can't really do much to that one without completely changing the aeasthetics and performance - there isn't actually anywhere to offset those wings or strakes. Are you sure about the wings though, because they're slightly angled to stop Z-fighting there's actually only about half a metre of each embedded in each other, not much more than with Zahida's CF-59 Naga. Similarly with the strakes, probably only a third of them is hidden.

I can't tell exactly because it's a picture, but it looks to me as if this http://imgur.com/dRdB7jC much of the plane is clipped, which is a rather significant portion. 

Looking forward to your submission! 

[BlueCanary]

4 minutes ago, CreativeCombat said:

I can't tell exactly because it's a picture, but it looks to me as if this http://imgur.com/dRdB7jC much of the plane is clipped, which is a rather significant portion. 

Looking forward to your submission! 

The central section of the wings, at most a quarter of the total wing area, is clipped, not for any tactical advantage (the plane was made way before I even knew about this challenge) but because it is the only way the design worked - otherwise the proportions were all messed up. Also the strakes are slid back into those wings a bit, again just for practical reasons and not in a way that gives any significant combat advantage.

If the plane is completely unclipped (which has the side effect of making it look like seriously messed up and be completely unflyable) it's really not that much bigger than it is now, and the total area of parts concealed is really not that big. IMO it's nowhere near to becoming an unfair advantage, especially since it's still quite a big plane compared to much of the submissions. It doesn't seem by any means hard to hit when an enemy gets a good angle on it, and is usually destroyed in the process - any unfair advantage it may have is more than made up for by the disadvantage it has in being a very low part plane where any hit is usually a vital part destroyed, unlike in a high part count plane like the Anduril that can lose parts with little ill effect.

 

If you're still sure it's an unfair design, I've been working on some replacements, without much success so far:

 

Re-engined light attack plane (the delta winged single engined one), decent all-round but just a bit behind the Anduril and El Quicko (my current main benchmark planes for testing) in terms of maneuverability and acceleration, although benefitting from a significantly smaller planform than both, which didn't actually seem to help it a huge amount - if a plane could get behind it, it could kill it.

Modified HNC (reverse sweep and vertical engines)- again, the Anduril and El Quicko had the edge in maneuverability and acceleration and managed to completely outclass it.

F-8 Red Kite (big reverse swept wing one)- very maneuverable but had wing strength issues and lacked the TWR to keep up, was quite easily taken down.

[GDJ]

SHUBADUB

Here's my submission. The purple/pink lines are BDArmoury Debug lines.


PLANES PULLED DUE TO A MASSIVE CHANGE IN AI BEHAVIOUR ON THE NEW 0.10 UPDATE. WILL RESUBMIT IN A FEW DAYS.

 

Both planes are the same. 4X M230 turrets per plane = 8 points total for both planes.
No clipping of parts.
No hiding anything.

Best of luck to everybody in the tournament!

@CreativeCombat: Both planes are configured so everything turns on when you hit the staging control (space bar). AI pilot, Weapons manager, afterburner will turn on automatically. Hit the space bar again and engine goes into dry mode, weapons manager turns off, autopilot stays on.
I tried to make it as simple as possible for getting tournaments rolling a bit easier.

Edited January 28, 2016 by GDJ
Pulled plane submission due to AI changes in the BDArmory 0.10 update

[DoctorDavinci]

Here's some pics of what I have been working on ... I am in final testing and will post the craft file in a day or so

I present the CANUKWorks DF-39 Manta V

 

[CreativeCombat]

On 1/12/2016 at 11:20 PM, DoctorDavinci said:

Here's some pics of what I have been working on ... I am in final testing and will post the craft file in a day or so

I present the CANUKWorks DF-39 Manta V

 

You have yet to post the craft file. 

 

Please provide the flag as well when you post it, it looks too lovely with it on to not include it in flight! 

[DoctorDavinci]

1 hour ago, CreativeCombat said:

You have yet to post the craft file. 

 

Please provide the flag as well when you post it, it looks too lovely with it on to not include it in flight! 

Sorry 'bout that, some pesky human came by and busted a hole in one of the dams for my pond so I had to go chew down some trees and plug the hole ... Can't they just leave a retired beaver alone?

Anyways, I digress .........

I'm still working on a second variant as I want to enter 2 planes with different load-outs. I've put many hours into fine tuning the DF-39 Manta and the first variant has a single hidden Vulcan which is designated the DF-39 Manta V .. I'm testing the GAU and an M230 variants at the moment and will post my entries soon as well as including my avatar for the contest too.

[DoctorDavinci]

SHUBADUB

I now present the CANUKWorks DF-39 Manta V in it's final iteration ... I discovered that the V outperformed both the GAU and the M230 variants so I'm just gonna enter two Manta V's (I also linked my flag below)

DoctorDavinci - 1 - Manta V
DoctorDavinci - 2 - Manta V
FLAG

Weighing in at a meager 9.5 tons, it has a single hidden Vulcan for all your dog-fighting needs as well as sporting two fashionable Panthers and air brakes.

NOTE: The AI Pilot toggle, Guard Mode toggle and Activate Engines are hot-keyed to '1'

Edited January 21, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[colmo]

Nothing to see here.

Edited January 26, 2016 by colmo

[drtricky]

20 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

I now present the CANUKWorks DF-39 Manta V in it's final iteration ... I discovered that the V outperformed both the GAU and the M230 variants so I'm just gonna enter two Manta V's 

I tried your manta V (1) against my huge 40-ton fighter-bomber, and I probably shouldn't be telling you this, but you should add more guns to your aircraft. My huge fighter-bomber (with a slower turn rate, larger turning radius and larger size) was initially losing 80% of its fights against your manta when equipped with a single GAU-8 (not surprising). But when I instead put three hidden vulcans side by side, my aircraft began winning ~40% of the fights. The spread and RoF of the three vulcans countered your fighter's increased maneuverability.

 

Your plane has an excellent design, however! It is very stable and accurate when firing, unlike a lot of fighters I've tested that are twitchy.

Edited January 20, 2016 by drtricky

[DoctorDavinci]

1 hour ago, drtricky said:

I tried your manta V (1) against my huge 40-ton fighter-bomber, and I probably shouldn't be telling you this, but you should add more guns to your aircraft.

I refer you to the rules for the current tournament posted on page 51 of this thread (one page behind this one)

[drtricky]

54 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

I refer you to the rules for the current tournament posted on page 51 of this thread (one page behind this one)

Oops. Well then, your plane should be the one that has more gun 

 

On an unrelated note, there should be a standard minimum altitude and default altitude, as that can affect when the plane starts engaging, and could really make the difference in a fight.

Edited January 20, 2016 by drtricky

[DoctorDavinci]

2 hours ago, drtricky said:

On an unrelated note, there should be a standard minimum altitude and default altitude, as that can affect when the plane starts engaging, and could really make the difference in a fight.

I refer you to the rules for the current tournament posted on page 51 of this thread (one page behind this one)