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Top Gun AI - The Official Tournament Thread

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GDJ

GDJ

Posted
Posted

Wow.

BTW, I've been doing some experimenting with the .50 Cal turrets on the CF-86 and I've run into a small snag. The minimum travel I can set it is +5 pitch, -1 pitch and 19 degrees yaw. Now with those settings I can literally annihilate any target but that would be considered an unfair advantage to others since the turrets can rotate far greater than the steerable Vulcans.

I can readjust the turrets so they only have +2/-2/4 degrees yaw but I would have to go into the config files to do it. I can set it here on my computer, but unfortunately once I transfer the file over to another users computer, the travel will be reset to the default travel which will be +5/-1/19 degrees.

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Guest

Guest

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I personally think that wing clipping also should be forbidden, ´cause wing spamming is forbidden but wing clipping is spamming you don´t see. I wouldn´t mind if some control surfaces would slightly cut each other, but if you hide half of your main wings in the body you´re much harder to hit and track, and that´s unfair.

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Slam_Jones

Slam_Jones

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wait, fully inside? Shouldn't that be considered illegal clipping? I know we established it for fuel tanks and engines, but I don't see why wings shouldn't fall under the same category.

Happen to know which page the plane is posted on? I'd like to take a look, myself.

Edited by Slam_Jones
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Alphasus

Alphasus

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Posted
I personally think that wing clipping also should be forbidden, ´cause wing spamming is forbidden but wing clipping is spamming you don´t see. I wouldn´t mind if some control surfaces would slightly cut each other, but if you hide half of your main wings in the body you´re much harder to hit and track, and that´s unfair.

I agree, but it's hard to legislate. Most planes at this stage have this clipping, but I haven't gone crazy with it and never will.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, fully inside? Shouldn't that be considered illegal clipping? I know we established it for fuel tanks and engines, but I don't see why wings shouldn't fall under the same category.

None are fully inside....

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GDJ

GDJ

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Posted
I personally think that wing clipping also should be forbidden, ´cause wing spamming is forbidden but wing clipping is spamming you don´t see. I wouldn´t mind if some control surfaces would slightly cut each other, but if you hide half of your main wings in the body you´re much harder to hit and track, and that´s unfair.

I do see your point on this. Some of my plane designs do have the wings blend into each other to form a smooth leading edge line (Typhoeus for example) but none of the wings go thru the body itself. They attach to the outside of the plane's body just like any wing.

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Guest

Guest

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Well, I saw 2 completely and 2 almost completely clipped Wing Strakes and 4 completely clipped Elevon 4s. I can´t tell more from my brain, but there may be.

It ´s all fair for this tournament, but the next should contain a "No wing clipping rule". Otherwise I´ll just clip 50 wings and 50 Elevons into my fuselage.

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Zixor

Zixor

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Posted
Wow.

BTW, I've been doing some experimenting with the .50 Cal turrets on the CF-86 and I've run into a small snag. The minimum travel I can set it is +5 pitch, -1 pitch and 19 degrees yaw. Now with those settings I can literally annihilate any target but that would be considered an unfair advantage to others since the turrets can rotate far greater than the steerable Vulcans.

I can readjust the turrets so they only have +2/-2/4 degrees yaw but I would have to go into the config files to do it. I can set it here on my computer, but unfortunately once I transfer the file over to another users computer, the travel will be reset to the default travel which will be +5/-1/19 degrees.

The way I did it was to edit a turret in a craft's save file. For example:

  1. save a craft in you SPH that consists of just a probe and a .50cal turret
  2. find the craft's save file in your SPH folder and open it in notepad
  3. use ctrl+f to find "minpitch"
  4. you should see that the save file holds not just the current value of minpitch, but also the limits of the minpitch slider.
  5. set the limits for minpitch to 0 to -4 (it does not matter what you set the actual current minpitch value to)
  6. repeat step 5 for yaw and maxpitch (use 0 to 4 degrees)
  7. load the craft you just edited into the SPH and save this modified turret as a subassembly.
  8. all angular range sliders should now let you use incraments of 1 degree

This hack should stick even when you give the craft file to someone else.

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colmo

colmo

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Posted

Having watched my plane lose to a 'design' which outmanoeuvred it with one wing, I find myself thinking how "it's hard to legislate wing clipping" becomes "I'm going to completely take the .... with wing clipping and take a steaming dump on the spirit of the contest as originally envisaged"?

Apologies for the bluntness, but I'm disgruntled at the abuse of the contest. It doesn't even remotely meet my idea of fair. I don't mind my plane losing, because I'm happy I didn't cheat to build it.

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Alphasus

Alphasus

Posted
Posted

I am more than happy to legislate wing clipping with you.. Demonstrators for this kind of stuff are needed to prove a point. Why don't we should art with limiting the number of wing pairs?

Your bluntness is understandable.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, very little is clipped into the body, which is how I define wing clipping.

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Slam_Jones

Slam_Jones

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Posted
Having watched my plane lose to a 'design' which outmanoeuvred it with one wing, I find myself thinking how "it's hard to legislate wing clipping" becomes "I'm going to completely take the .... with wing clipping and take a steaming dump on the spirit of the contest as originally envisaged"?

Apologies for the bluntness, but I'm disgruntled at the abuse of the contest. It doesn't even remotely meet my idea of fair. I don't mind my plane losing, because I'm happy I didn't cheat to build it.

Hmmm I certainly agree that a plane being able to maneuver with little to no difference after losing a wing seems a tad suspicious. I'd certainly say it's indicative of some techniques not used by any of the other jets, but the question is: is anything done to the plane illegal? I'm not sure, but I will take a look at it after work.

There are many indications of wing spam, and very little change in maneuverability after losing a main wing (not even a minor one... a MAIN WING) seems to be pointing that direction. At the very least we should have seen some loss of stability... which I saw no indication of. It maneuvered and took down its opponent as if nothing were wrong.

Not accusing you of cheating, Alpha, but you do have to admit it looks a wee bit odd.

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Alphasus

Alphasus

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Posted
Hmmm I certainly agree that a plane being able to maneuver with little to no difference after losing a wing seems a tad suspicious. I'd certainly say it's indicative of some techniques not used by any of the other jets, but the question is: is anything done to the plane illegal? I'm not sure, but I will take a look at it after work.

There are many indications of wing spam, and very little change in maneuverability after losing a main wing (not even a minor one... a MAIN WING) seems to be pointing that direction.

Not accusing you of cheating, Alpha, but you do have to admit it looks a wee bit odd.

The rules were read many many many times in its construction. The FA27 uses the same techniques as well and can do the same trick. But it is heavier and turns worse.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the main body was interpreted as the fuel tanks.

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