[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[mr. engino]

17 hours ago, Deltac said:

I've searched through all of BDB parts twice now and I can't find this mysterious sphere half.  The O.R.B. must be complete!

If need be, I'll make a model for cobalt to use, so that we can have a proper pioneer 5! On a side note, Is anyone else having issues with the narly probe core not having any electric charge?

[Deltac]

Juno I Launch with hotdog 1 probe:

Spoiler

Juno II Launch with Pinecone 4 probe:

Spoiler

 

[CobaltWolf]

Twist my arm why don't you...

[CobaltWolf]

I'm actually surprised nobody dug this image up... it's only 2+ years old...

Bear in mind the probe core was originally just something I had sketched in a notebook, and retroactively called both the Pioneer core and the Venera core (I believe it's actually Venera in the files). So it's not going to be a perfect recreation. I'm probably going to touch up the textures too to make it more like the Explorer-6 design (back to the two-tone look). This probe is going to wind up being a mix of Pioneer-5 / Explorer-6 and Pioneer P3. Is there any interest in including the little antennas on the bottom of Pioneer P3? (Second pic). This design was intended to be used as a very very very early Venus flyby mission. I'm hoping this little service module will be useful for flyby course corrections without being overpowered.

Edited January 28, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[mr. engino]

17 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm actually surprised nobody dug this image up... it's only 2+ years old...

Bear in mind the probe core was originally just something I had sketched in a notebook, and retroactively called both the Pioneer core and the Venera core (I believe it's actually Venera in the files). So it's not going to be a perfect recreation. I'm probably going to touch up the textures too to make it more like the Explorer-6 design (back to the two-tone look). This probe is going to wind up being a mix of Pioneer-5 / Explorer-6 and Pioneer P3. Is there any interest in including the little antennas on the bottom of Pioneer P3? (Second pic). This design was intended to be used as a very very very early Venus flyby mission. I'm hoping this little service module will be useful for flyby course corrections without being overpowered.

Ooh, didn't know this was in the works already! I think the antennas could be added, though perhaps using existing ones, with attachment nodes on the bottom piece.

[Deltac]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

a mix of Pioneer-5 / Explorer-6 and Pioneer P3

A fine addition to my collection.

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

including the little antennas on the bottom of Pioneer P3?

Would be interesting to see what you come up with.

 

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

withöut being överpöwered.

Bröther...

Edited January 28, 2019 by Deltac

[DriftNasty]

This is a splendid mod, I really like the space race launchers and pods. All the work that this team has put in is incredible, having the chance to see the hardware up close and in person as a kid and after a career in aviation, seeing it work in the game brings joy to my inner child. The Redstone, Atlas, and Titan launch vehicles are absolutely killer. I am looking forward to the Saturn for sure.

Is there a guide for the Gemini and MOL parts, the cislunar Gemini, and the Gemini lander?  I've read about a quarter of this thread so far(at the development and release of the Saturn/Apollo stuff) so forgive me if I am asking a dumb question. 

The Titan "warhead" does not survive a ballistic style flight re-entry. Is this by design?

I started a new career just for this mod and I have only made it to the Gemini Era, will the new update break my save?

[CobaltWolf]

4 minutes ago, DriftNasty said:

This is a splendid mod, I really like the space race launchers and pods. All the work that this team has put in is incredible, having the chance to see the hardware up close and in person as a kid and after a career in aviation, seeing it work in the game brings joy to my inner child. The Redstone, Atlas, and Titan launch vehicles are absolutely killer. I am looking forward to the Saturn for sure.

Is there a guide for the Gemini and MOL parts, the cislunar Gemini, and the Gemini lander?  I've read about a quarter of this thread so far(at the development and release of the Saturn/Apollo stuff) so forgive me if I am asking a dumb question. 

The Titan "warhead" does not survive a ballistic style flight re-entry. Is this by design?

I started a new career just for this mod and I have only made it to the Gemini Era, will the new update break my save?

Thank you! I can't tell from reading your post - are you looking forward to unlocking the Saturn in your save, or looking forward to us finishing making Saturn? Because it's already in the mod.

The Gemini parts are from a time in development where a lot of stuff was half baked or otherwise unfinished, and I haven't been able to circle back to them to clean them up yet. The "MOL" parts were actually intended as 1.875m station parts for early orbital outposts. I'd like to come back at some point and make proper MOL-based parts that match the real one much closer. The Gemini lander is currently just the can itself, for similar reasons. I'd like to finish that too.

I honestly don't know why the 'warhead' part is even there. I am honestly not planning on including it in the revamp (unless people really want it to stick around).

When did you start the career? The update was released Friday night. It's hard to say, partially because I don't actually know how badly certain things will break saves. The biggest thing is some stuff - likely nothing you've used so far, if I remember - had their tech tree placement redone to make more sense. And then of course a lot of parts got remade but the old versions of those parts should still be in the game so crafts won't break. My advice is to back up your save folder first and then give it a go.

[DriftNasty]

59 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Thank you! I can't tell from reading your post - are you looking forward to unlocking the Saturn in your save, or looking forward to us finishing making Saturn? Because it's already in the mod.

The Gemini parts are from a time in development where a lot of stuff was half baked or otherwise unfinished, and I haven't been able to circle back to them to clean them up yet. The "MOL" parts were actually intended as 1.875m station parts for early orbital outposts. I'd like to come back at some point and make proper MOL-based parts that match the real one much closer. The Gemini lander is currently just the can itself, for similar reasons. I'd like to finish that too.

I honestly don't know why the 'warhead' part is even there. I am honestly not planning on including it in the revamp (unless people really want it to stick around).

When did you start the career? The update was released Friday night. It's hard to say, partially because I don't actually know how badly certain things will break saves. The biggest thing is some stuff - likely nothing you've used so far, if I remember - had their tech tree placement redone to make more sense. And then of course a lot of parts got remade but the old versions of those parts should still be in the game so crafts won't break. My advice is to back up your save folder first and then give it a go.

Oh yeah, unlocking it in the save. I played around with the mod in sandbox first to check out all the parts. I was reading the development history of the mod because it is interesting and so I can learn the "why's?" to the process. I recently starting playing KSP with mods installed and I found this one looking for a real Redstone and Atlas launcher, you all knocked those out of the park. The Making History addon added Titan and Saturn launchers but left out the Redstone/Atlas. Your groups' collective parts pack does those better (Saturn/Titan) in my mind while adding the historic "other" launchers.

As far as tech tree stuff, I have Saturn 1 stuff unlocked so far and various tech levels around that point. Basically enough to get to the Mun, Minmus, and send a few probes out to Eve and Duna.

The 1.875 station parts are useful, even though they were half baked real life ideas due to unmanned technology for spying making them obsolete. It's fun to explore the "what if" side of history as well. It definitely makes it easier to play the game with only parts from this mod for an authentic space race feel while gaining science points to unlock the tree.

The 'warhead' is useful because of the science on it, though it doesn't survive reentry without some additions (I added the Hermes RCS pod parachute system, the small heat shield, and the trapezoidal Thor fins clipped in to keep it from flipping. I think it works with the theme you have of early launchers due to the fact that the majority of them were designed as weapon systems first. For me, it added a gameplay role playing way of testing the early rocket designs and gaining science without it seeming like a waste of funds. If it is possible to keep it in for the next update but make it recoverable after re-entry that would be a bonus.

I like the Peacekeeper addition, are there any plans for Minuteman, or a 'MIRV' bus for science boosting that can launch 3 or more small experiments/probes on the solid launch vehicles?

[CobaltWolf]

16 hours ago, DriftNasty said:

Oh yeah, unlocking it in the save. I played around with the mod in sandbox first to check out all the parts. I was reading the development history of the mod because it is interesting and so I can learn the "why's?" to the process. I recently starting playing KSP with mods installed and I found this one looking for a real Redstone and Atlas launcher, you all knocked those out of the park. The Making History addon added Titan and Saturn launchers but left out the Redstone/Atlas. Your groups' collective parts pack does those better (Saturn/Titan) in my mind while adding the historic "other" launchers.

As far as tech tree stuff, I have Saturn 1 stuff unlocked so far and various tech levels around that point. Basically enough to get to the Mun, Minmus, and send a few probes out to Eve and Duna.

The 1.875 station parts are useful, even though they were half baked real life ideas due to unmanned technology for spying making them obsolete. It's fun to explore the "what if" side of history as well. It definitely makes it easier to play the game with only parts from this mod for an authentic space race feel while gaining science points to unlock the tree.

The 'warhead' is useful because of the science on it, though it doesn't survive reentry without some additions (I added the Hermes RCS pod parachute system, the small heat shield, and the trapezoidal Thor fins clipped in to keep it from flipping. I think it works with the theme you have of early launchers due to the fact that the majority of them were designed as weapon systems first. For me, it added a gameplay role playing way of testing the early rocket designs and gaining science without it seeming like a waste of funds. If it is possible to keep it in for the next update but make it recoverable after re-entry that would be a bonus.

I like the Peacekeeper addition, are there any plans for Minuteman, or a 'MIRV' bus for science boosting that can launch 3 or more small experiments/probes on the solid launch vehicles?

If you want to get caught up, I made a big post ~2 months ago that is mostly still accurate. I have some mixed feelings on the DLC.

Yeah, the problem with how the station parts shook out was twofold. First, I went into it planning on making sort of a 1.875m SSPX but didn't get full enough coverage for all the different parts that would be useful. Only one kind of solar panel, etc. Second, the development of that update stretched on a long time and I kinda forced it out so that I could start work on the Saturn and Apollo stuff in time for the mod's 1 year anniversary. So that stuff really never felt 'complete' to me. They were meant more to represent baby science stations than any sort of military thing but I'm honestly not sure if they actually are useful in career. I wanted to give players an opportunity to do something in the early-mid game other than send out probes (which is always what I wound up doing to get science for crewed landers).

The only reason I wouldn't include a warhead is, since originally making those parts, I've developed a bit of a dislike for basically just recreating missiles and specifically nukes (blame a traumatizing class on nuclear aftermath I took the following semester). Kind of the same with the MIRV bus, though 'multi satellite deployment' is a cool idea.

Out of curiosity, are you using a rescaled system of some type? Since the LVs are balanced in line with stock they are OP in the stock-scaled system.

 

I really wanted to try and get the Pioneer service module in game last night but I wound up leaving work early with a migraine. By the time I recovered and took care of chores I only had about 20 minutes to work, most of which was spent on the 0.3125m autoshroud fairing. But, I had a question - what do people think about this paint scheme for the parts? The initial feedback I got is that it's starting to make people uneasy. I wanted it to look reminiscent of the Explorer-6/Pioneer-5 paint scheme, since the Pioneer P3 aesthetic is... weird. Also, fun fact - while Pioneer-5 (I couldn't confirm Explorer-6's size) was roughly 1/2 a meter diameter, Pioneer P-3 was nearly a full meter - meaning that the 0.625m size in KSP is fairly accurate!

 

Also, I was thinking - another thing I felt was missing was a proper set of probe solar panels big enough to power the mercury ion engine. I think I'd like to get those taken care of too, maybe a couple more small parts, and then make a small incremental release before moving on to the Titan stuff. Gives me a nice little break from LV parts. Does anyone have ideas for what solar panels that big should look like? Bear in mind this would be for a 60s-70s era probe, most likely for a 70s comet flyby. Here is a pic of the design that the ion engine is modeled after, there are a couple more available here. The engines were developed in the 60s but were dusted off for this 80s mission plan which used Shuttle, which make the panel designs shown perhaps anachronistic. The ones in the pic below also don't seem terribly... idk, flexible? Due to the weird mount.

 

Speaking of ion engines, I found out about SERT-1 the other day and couldn't help myself... does anyone feel a need for a radial ion engine? If not I probably won't bother finishing it.

[DiscoSlelge]

I don’t even know what to do with ion engines and at this point I’m afraid to ask.

[CobaltWolf]

19 minutes ago, DiscoSlelge said:

I don’t even know what to do with ion engines and at this point I’m afraid to ask.

I think the most notable mid-game use would be asteroid rendezvous for science.

[DriftNasty]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

If you want to get caught up, I made a big post ~2 months ago that is mostly still accurate. I have some mixed feelings on the DLC.

Yeah, the problem with how the station parts shook out was twofold. First, I went into it planning on making sort of a 1.875m SSPX but didn't get full enough coverage for all the different parts that would be useful. Only one kind of solar panel, etc. Second, the development of that update stretched on a long time and I kinda forced it out so that I could start work on the Saturn and Apollo stuff in time for the mod's 1 year anniversary. So that stuff really never felt 'complete' to me. They were meant more to represent baby science stations than any sort of military thing but I'm honestly not sure if they actually are useful in career. I wanted to give players an opportunity to do something in the early-mid game other than send out probes (which is always what I wound up doing to get science for crewed landers).

The only reason I wouldn't include a warhead is, since originally making those parts, I've developed a bit of a dislike for basically just recreating missiles and specifically nukes (blame a traumatizing class on nuclear aftermath I took the following semester). Kind of the same with the MIRV bus, though 'multi satellite deployment' is a cool idea.

Out of curiosity, are you using a rescaled system of some type? Since the LVs are balanced in line with stock they are OP in the stock-scaled system.

 

 

 

I, for one, like the idea of an early manned space station, it slows down the gameplay to avoid the rush to the Mun and Minmus to unlock the whole tech tree. It's fun to use the early launchers to assemble things in orbit and send out probes in addition to the manned exploration of the natural satellites. I agree on the science aspect of your goals and not the military aspect because there isn't a real reason for anything other than science and completing contracts.

As far as your distaste for warheads, I can see why you wouldn't need or want them in KSP. There is a use for a ballistic approach to science gathering on the surface of Kerbin for those early science contracts. If you are interested you could modify the "warhead" into a ballistic re-entry test probe to perform basic science and re-entry testing in the atmosphere/LKO/surface biomes.  I don't know how complex it is to do all of that but it could be a good analogue to go with the early launchers for design and test to recreate the early space program from infancy to manned flight. In real life they used test dummy payloads that were filled with ballast to perfect the systems and control for the actual re-entry vehicles and to perfect the telemetry and control of the launch vehicles. I have some ideas for what could work if you wanted to explore that facet of the early launch vehicles and the way it morphed into manned exploration, if not I understand, you have a large workload planned.

I am not using a rescaled system but I do modify the thrust and fuel loads to better approximate the flights. How would I go about rescaling the system to match better? It might be worth it to start a new save using the rescaled system. I'm not that far in.

Edited January 29, 2019 by DriftNasty

[Pappystein]

RE color of the probe...  Maybe just the two spherical bump-outs white and leave the rest black?     Maybe a white pinstripe circle through he center of the two bump-outs.

RE the Solar Panels.  I have seen a Trust like that before.  The Entire Truss will rotate with that offset to the panels.  And yes that Truss center section is shaped like a giant Horse collar or a Capitol "U"   The Individual Panels do not move except to extend or retract.  That does make it harder to make an "Accurate" part to build multiple devices out of.  IRL it reduces the part count and allows the truss to be the strength of the whole panel.

Re the Radial Ion Engines.   Yes Please!  

 

[Rock3tman_]

20 minutes ago, DriftNasty said:

I am not using a rescaled system but I do modify the thrust and fuel loads to better approximate the flights. How would I go about rescaling the system to match better? It might be worth it to start a new save using the rescaled system. I'm not that far in.

You'll need to download  the latest versions of Kopernicus and Sigma Dimensions, Sigma Dimensions will allow you to customize the scale of your solar system through some easy cfg file adjustments (I think the exact file is settings.cfg). Ones that work really great for BDB are 2.5x resize and 2.5x rescale. Once you go rescaled, you'll never go back.

[CobaltWolf]

3 minutes ago, Rock3tman_ said:

You'll need to download  the latest versions of Kopernicus and Sigma Dimensions, Sigma Dimensions will allow you to customize the scale of your solar system through some easy cfg file adjustments (I think the exact file is settings.cfg). Ones that work really great for BDB are 2.5x resize and 2.5x rescale. Once you go rescaled, you'll never go back.

Does Rescale! still work?

[Rock3tman_]

3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Does Rescale! still work?

I believe it's broken in the newest update, but Rescale is just a set of SD configs and it's only marginally more difficult to set the scaleyourself. The readme for sigma is quite good.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Rock3tman_

[DriftNasty]

6 minutes ago, Rock3tman_ said:

You'll need to download  the latest versions of Kopernicus and Sigma Dimensions, Sigma Dimensions will allow you to customize the scale of your solar system through some easy cfg file adjustments (I think the exact file is settings.cfg). Ones that work really great for BDB are 2.5x resize and 2.5x rescale. Once you go rescaled, you'll never go back.

Thanks, would this work with the Outer Planets Mod?

[Rock3tman_]

2 minutes ago, DriftNasty said:

Thanks, would this work with the Outer Planets Mod?

Believe so, Sigma applies this globally so it should be functional with all planet mods.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Rock3tman_

[DriftNasty]

MK-2 RV. Used for Thor Jupiter and Atlas testing for instance.

[komodo]

11 hours ago, Rock3tman_ said:

I believe it's broken in the newest update, but Rescale is just a set of SD configs

These things seem mutually exclusive. Separately, they've been working fine for me at 3.2x.

EDIT: Not going to double post for a screenshot tax. Finally got the #$%^ Leo on the upper right unwelded from the badly built docking port...! It was stuck on there from the second assembly flight.

We now have an airlock and all docking ports working once more!

Getting the science module docked in there was a challenge. (The lower one/the one without the transstage.)

@CobaltWolf Whatever the state of affairs with the 'MOL' parts, I get a good deal of mileage out of them, along with a lot of fun needless to say. Next challenge is to try to engineer a way to dock some Skylab/Spacelab modules to this thing.

... Orbital Parallel Parking... This was not planned/the paint got pretty scratched up on the science module somehow, weird...

Edited January 30, 2019 by komodo
Station Showiness.

[Orbital_phoenix]

Playing around with visual settings, I took some screenshots of this wonderful mod as well as AlphaMensae's Launch pads.

Visual mods is Spectra and KS3P.

More Screenshots:

Quote

 

 

[CobaltWolf]

Screenshot tax... up on the Github now, note that we've moved to using a development branch on Github so you have to download that and not the master.

 

EDIT: By the way, has anyone come up with cool Scout or Peacekeeper-derived LVs yet?

Edited January 30, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[Hay]

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

EDIT: By the way, has anyone come up with cool Scout or Peacekeeper-derived LVs yet?

Made this thing:

Decided to use a Gemini as its payload to stay with the black aesthetics. It's basically just a Peacekeeper, without the 3rd stage and with a Athena second stage.

[DiscoSlelge]

My turn for tax time !