Astronomers may have found giant alien 'megastructures' orbiting a star in the Milky Way

[RainDreamer]

Related video:

[Deadpangod3]

Its a matter of energy expenditure, and Isps required to move that amount of mass in any reasonable fashion.

If they have that much energy, for a similar amount of energy, they could power massive light sails/laser propulsion systems (indeed, such a structure would be meant to harness more of the energy output of the sun). If they move that much mass, they already have high Isp drives, and wouldn't even need light sails in the first place.

If they exist on vast timescales and the huge distances aren't a problem, then its even more likely they'd spread.

Any alien that could construct such a large structure should also have the capability to easily go interstellar.

That thing is so close, that if it was aliens capable of interstellar travel, they should have surrounded us by now.

It appears we aren't surrounded by an alien civilization.

There are plausible natural explanations.

Considering those two together... its not aliens, its a system that was disturbed by a passing star/massive object.

I have specifically challenged that assumption.

Then I attempted proof by contradiction.

If P, then Q

If not Q, then not P.

Q is false.

Therefore P is false

Assume that the statement is true.

Derive a conclusion from it.

Show that the conclusion doesn't match observations

Conclude the statement is actually false.

Its not aliens people!

Its possible they could have realized our planet had life or had the potential for life, and didn't settle within a certain distance of us, to let us evolve normally.

I'm not saying it IS aliens, but I just wanted to say they may want to avoid contact for whatever reason.

[problemecium]

Piggybacking off this, I'll rehash something I said a while back in a different thread.

Currently we have a number of rovers on Mars. Since at least some of them were sent to look for life forms, we've always been careful to completely sterilize them before launch, taking days or weeks of extra work. This is not only to avoid accidentally putting life there without realizing it (and then discovering our own hitchhikers), but as a secondary measure, to avoid introducing potentially destructive species that could disrupt any Martian ecosystems we find.

Recently, one of them found a bit of water (as was blown up in the media). As a result, at least a few environmentalist groups started to express concerns about our presence there - in our search for life, we could accidentally destroy it while bumbling about.

So let's assume that our species doesn't go extinct in the next century and that we successfully find a life-bearing exoplanet. The probe we send there is likely to be very carefully prepared so as to have the absolute minimum impact on the native ecosystem. In fact, we might go so far in this pursuit that nothing even notices we're there.

Turn that around on us: any civilization advanced enough to travel to other planets is, more likely than not, at least as concerned as we are about environmental damage (or at least their scientists are). So it stands to reason they'd be careful about disturbing things in places they'd visit, to the point of barely leaving any trace whatsoever - we don't want to go violating the Prime Directive after all. This might (MIGHT - I'm not saying it is) even be the reason we have no reliable reports on aliens investigating us even if they have dropped by.

Thus the purported advanced civilization over there has plenty of perfectly rational reason not to have left obvious traces all over the place even if they did go exploring. Add that to the previously cited possibility that they didn't feel like going interstellar after all. Why explore space when you could spend money on retirement funds, militaries, and video games about space? ;P

[kerbiloid]

Thus the purported advanced civilization over there has plenty of perfectly rational reason not to have left obvious traces all over the place even if they did go exploring.

If an advanced interstellar civilization yet treats the Space as a sacred place, and not just as a backyard with rusty trash.

Would anybody hesitate to confuse gophers, marmots and humans with a rusty pickup.

[KerikBalm]

Turn that around on us: any civilization advanced enough to travel to other planets is, more likely than not, at least as concerned as we are about environmental damage (or at least their scientists are). So it stands to reason they'd be careful about disturbing things in places they'd visit, to the point of barely leaving any trace whatsoever - we don't want to go violating the Prime Directive after all.

...

Thus the purported advanced civilization over there has plenty of perfectly rational reason not to have left obvious traces all over the place even if they did go exploring. Add that to the previously cited possibility that they didn't feel like going interstellar after all. Why explore space when you could spend money on retirement funds, militaries, and video games about space? ;P

I'm sorry, but I don't by into any of these arguments.

One thing that is constant throughout nearly 4 billion years of evolution on this planet, and throughout all of human civilization, is that it expands to new habitats whenever possible.

A civilization that colonises will become more common than one that does not. If we encounter an alien civilization, it is likely going to be an expanding one. It might leave use alone and expand around us, it might not. It may leave earth as 1 world out of a multitude, just to study, but there is a big difference between hiding and not contaminating.

Its not like the mars rover tries to hide from potential martian life. Likewise... if there are aliens building dysons spheres... its not likely they put much value in hiding their presence.

If there are a vast multitude of space faring civilizations, you can't count on *every single one of them* deciding to hide and not expand.

If even 1 did, the galaxy should be colonized in ~1 to ~10 million years.

The sun is not a particularly old star, and we've been sitting around orbiting it in a habitable state for ~3.7 billion years.

Life on Earth has had all the biological innovations needed to develop intelligence for ~100-300 million years (depending on your criteria)...

Its also a mistake to assume that all aliens from a particular world will think alike.

Just as on Earth, its likely there will be different "factions" or "political groups" if you want... some aliens may not want to colonize, some will. Some may want to go contact primitive cultures, some won't.

If they can build a dyson sphere-like structure, they can go interstellar.

If they can go interstellar, its really easy for different factions to develop quite some autonomy and go expanding even if its not the political consensus.

In order for the "they want to hide or don't want to expand" idea to be believable, we have to assume there are very very very few spacefaring civilizations in the galaxy. If there were more, 1 would likely not have adhered to that philosophy, and would have spread all over.

Once we reach that point, we might as well say there are, at this time, no other space faring civilizations in the galaxy.

That is a system disturbed by a passing star - not aliens.

[1of6Billion]

-snip-

That is a system disturbed by a passing star - not aliens.

Party Pooper

Do we have, or can we develop technology to make sure what's going on there within a reasonable time? I mean, pinging them and waiting for answer will take 3000 years

[Nikolai]

Turn that around on us: any civilization advanced enough to travel to other planets is, more likely than not, at least as concerned as we are about environmental damage (or at least their scientists are).

Devil's advocate here: If they can command energies on that level, they must be the apex predator of their planet. Which might well give them a wary and nasty side. They may well distrust "the other" enough that racism exists.

They also had to learn to control those energies, which means that they understand that accidents can happen. And they also know that other species could hold a grudge -- perhaps even longer than they usually do. And they understand racism enough to know that irrational hatred can take many forms, even potentially more extreme than one's they've directly experienced. And they know that it is possible to command energies capable of wiping out life on a massive scale. And they know that once a race builds certain technologies, they can go or be in lots of places.

All of which might tend to make them think of developing races less as life to be preserved in its native habitat and more as a potential threat that must be contained before it spreads. The only way to be sure that lots of your own people won't be wiped out by someone holding a grudge -- because of some deliberate action, or some accident, or even irrational hatred -- is to make sure they never develop the ability to leave their star system.

One might hope that they'd use peaceful means to do that. But apex predators aren't known for being peaceful.

[Wjolcz]

I'm really torn. There are like two sides in my brain right now. One is like "Damn! This is amazing! I hope it's aliens!" and the other is more like "Meh. It's probably something natural." It's the worst.

Sooo... When will we be sure what exactly is happening there? I really need answers.

Surprise Edit Questions: Do we know if the other star is a companion and how old they are? Would a planetary system around one of them be stable to keep a planet in habitable zone?

Edited October 20, 2015 by Veeltch

[Robotengineer]

We're gonna need a bigger telescope...

[_Augustus_]

I'm really torn. There are like two sides in my brain right now. One is like "Damn! This is amazing! I hope it's aliens!" and the other is more like "Meh. It's probably something natural." It's the worst.

Sooo... When will we be sure what exactly is happening there? I really need answers.

Surprise Edit Questions: Do we know if the other star is a companion and how old they are? Would a planetary system around one of them be stable to keep a planet in habitable zone?

It's a companion and it's stable.

[baggers]

Why, instead of a artificial inert megastructure of an ancien civilization, could'nt it be something like a living giga-structure?

A (sort of) giant plant that have grew over is planet, expanding her (sort of) leaves all over his surrounding space?

It could explain why it's not an expanding interstellar civilisation, why it's not hidden, and why it has stopped to grew at a point.

Is it that improbable? What sort of world would be needed to support that sort of living structure?

- A smal world (low gravity to allow giga trees-like structures self-sustained?)

- Without atmospher?

Edited October 21, 2015 by baggers

[Noname117]

Why, instead of a artificial inert megastructure of an ancien civilization, could'nt it be something like a living giga-structure?

A (sort of) giant plant that have grew over is planet, expanding her (sort of) leaves all over his surrounding space?

It could explain why it's not an expanding civilisation, why it's not hidden, and why it has stopped to grew at a point.

Is it that improbable? What sort of world would be needed to support that sort of living structure?

- A smal world (low gravity to allow giga trees-like structures self-sustained?)

- Without atmospher?

Implausible to impossible. Whatever is around that star must be either changing its orbit, several objects in a far away orbit (They only've gone in between Kepler and the star once), or its a swarm of objects. The change in the IR radiation of the star is too irregular and at too irregular intervals to be a normal planet just orbiting it, and I'm honestly not sure how a living giga-structure could account for the weird signals we're receiving from this star. Plus, where would said plant get resources from?

[baggers]

About ressources: from sun and the one and only planet available at that orbit, sure: that explain why it has stopped to grew at a point. Planet available ressources limits the maximal expansion.

In that case, the planet orbit, and the plant(s) too, at 750 earth-days for a full orbit.

And about why it changes shape every 750 days... hmm... seasons? You could even imagine local/regional seasons in the "plant web", due to lack of ressources or other factors. (competition between tree branches?)

Edited October 21, 2015 by baggers

[Noname117]

About ressources: from sun and the one and only planet available at that orbit, sure: that explain why it has stopped to grew at a point. Planet available ressources limits the maximal expansion.

In that case, the planet orbit, and the plant(s) too, at 750 earth-days for a full orbit.

And about why it changes shape every 750 days... hmm... seasons? You could even imagine local/regional seasons in the "plant web", due to lack of ressources or other factors. (competition between tree branches?)

The amount of starlight being blocked is far too much for it to be an living mega-structure formed naturally. And the intervals are still too random for it to be one; you'd see the blackouts, albeit of varying magnitude, happening periodically.

[baggers]

The amount of starlight being blocked is far too much for it to be an living mega-structure formed naturally. And the intervals are still too random for it to be one; you'd see the blackouts, albeit of varying magnitude, happening periodically.

I have read that the blackout ARE periodical: 750 days between each.

[Noname117]

I have read that the blackout ARE periodical: 750 days between each.

Oh, I did not realize that. I probably should've read more on this. Anyways, the amount of light blocked would still be too small, as a Jupiter sized planet could only block 1 percent of the light.

[baggers]

For what I found:

We have data for 2 transits, separated by 750 days.

Kepler has missed a transit in april 2015, due to 2 reaction wheels stuck. (a shame)

Next transit expected for may 2017? Hope we have a good telescope in the sky at that moment!

You are rigth about the absurd amount of ligth blocked by that "thing"

Edited October 21, 2015 by baggers

[NuclearNut]

Whatever it is, it is weird. 25% is absolutely massive, I mean mindbogglingly massive, really really mindbogglingly massive, and thus should be studied more. If it is aliens, then we should avoid all attempts to contact or attempts to contact us by them, and get to work conducting an industrial production race with them. We have in that sanario less than a thousand years to surpass what they may of well done over tens of thousands.

In the unlikely event it is aliens, I will be supporting a massive space based industrial drive. Heck, even if it is not I would support that.

[baggers]

This is the raw data from Kepler, about ligth obstruction from that star:

This is a small personal projection for a third transit:

It's growing...

And in 1000 years or so: "nothing to see here, folks!" as a billion times before.

[Geher]

If it is aliens, then we should avoid all attempts to contact or attempts to contact us by them[...]

Why? If it would turn out to be aliens, I would say we should listen for signals from that star 24/7.

But I agree, that we shouldn't send them signals.

[YNM]

Something to remind, guys :

1. Kepler (or, for preciseness, K2) telescope/mission is no longer able to observe this object. All datas available, then, are past data.

2. Nobody have checked radial velocity of the star, which would be indicative of the mass of orbiting object and their dispersion. I suppose a sphere or non-natural (in other words, made with intelligent being exists in the universe) object would be less massive as a star, or implies a smaller radial velocity. Not sure which michelson interferometer can do that though.

[Bill Phil]

This is the raw data from Kepler, about ligth obstruction from that star:

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/blogs/dnews-files-2015-10-alien-civilization2-670x440-151014-jpg.jpg

This is a small personal projection for a third transit:

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/466365url.jpg

It's growing...

And in 1000 years or so: "nothing to see here, folks!" as a billion times before.

Perhaps the relative surface area of the object isn't fully exposed? And maybe the orbit is precessing...

[Godot]

Something to remind, guys :

1. Kepler (or, for preciseness, K2) telescope/mission is no longer able to observe this object. All datas available, then, are past data.

...

Hm ...

Kepler still is active ... so I guess they could take K2 Campaign 9 or 10 in order to target KIC 8462852 again

[YNM]

Hm ...

Kepler still is active ... so I guess they could take K2 Campaign 9 or 10 in order to target KIC 8462852 again

Hmm... Cygnus is too far from ecliptic ? I mean, well, the ecliptic there is at least 20 deg away... K2 campaigns only available for ecliptic missions, and AFAIK that's only able to observe a field for only a month or two.

[Findthepin1]

If it is aliens, I think we should make every peaceful effort to get their attention. It's best to have help from a civilization more advanced than us. I wonder if they have sent probes to this system yet, I doubt they have but they probably can see our oceans, the composition of our atmosphere, etc., and suspect something's existence. Although they might be scared of us if we try to peacefully contact them, because their media might portray aliens like ours does.

Also, there is a new theory about the light fluctuations. It's that the star is elliptical, and so the poles are hotter and brighter. Unfortunately, since the star can only be elliptical through the axis of rotation, it can't really change its apparent ellipticity from any given point without being constantly tugged into an oval shape by another massive object. There is no discovered massive object that can account for this.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Findthepin1