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Devnote Tuesday: A week of Experimental Testing

SQUAD

By SQUAD
in KSP1 The Daily Kerbal

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Mister Dilsby

Mister Dilsby

Posted
Posted

Very glad I brought everyone home prior to this update--not that it's going to break my game so much as I'm really excited to design new ships with these parts!

Regarding the jet engines: I respect it must be a bit of a compromise--I'd rather it was done by splitting up the basic parts of intake, compressor and turbine so those can be worked into the structure of the ship just like on real aircraft; of course this would require some sort of widget to keep track of the mass of air separate from its volume... hmm, good thing for me I'm a writer not a modder :D

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Red Dwarf

Red Dwarf

Posted
Posted
I like new turbine thingie. Depicting a jet engine like some hole on fire is stupid.

VTOL builder problems sound like 1.0 infiniglide fix related whine.

When you put it like that, I guess it's true. We've been using jet engines in ways that would void warranties anywhere else. It's kind of like 'increasing fuel density' by clipping tanks together. It just ain't realistic. In that sense, this change is a positive step.

That being said, it does feel a bit like options are being taken away from us. Those engines really were useful, and part of it was because of their compact nature. You could sneak a couple jets in here and there to augment thrust without too much trouble. Since the new engines are gonna be so unwieldy, we won't have as many ways to use them.

That kind of sucks, but then again, it forces us to get creative. I know better than most that VTOLs don't have to rely on jets (as my sig demonstrates). The jets were super efficient, and easy to spam, so they were super attractive for us VTOL designers, but their low thrust made them a hassle to work with. Now we have actual incentive to use other methods of getting airborne. Vernor engines really are powerful, and you can stick them anywhere to keep things balanced. They're a great option. I've got my fingers crossed that the new tiny jets will work sort of the same. If their turbines are proportionally small, they could work well as place-anywhere thrusters. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

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colmo

colmo

Posted
Posted

I like the new turbines - my only issue is a Mk1 fuel tank should surely not have the space for a turbine clipped into it as well as all that fuel.

Mk2 parts have much less fuel so they make sense.

As long as the new small jet can be used for VTOL, I'm happy. The Wheesley has been useless for VTOL since its 1.0.4 nerf.

Any thoughts to vectoring ports, now we have a real engine on board from which to divert thrust? It's been done in mods numerous times.

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Alshain

Alshain

Posted
Posted
Nice! I love the fact that engines will be more than just a nozzle. Will an engines weight be distributed along its length or is it still concentrated in the nozzle?

It's not concentrated in the Nozzle now. This addition appears to do absolutely nothing but prevent the engine from being mounted in all locations without unsightly garbage sticking out of your plane.

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Red Dwarf

Red Dwarf

Posted
Posted
Nice! I love the fact that engines will be more than just a nozzle. Will an engines weight be distributed along its length or is it still concentrated in the nozzle?

They actually already are. The center of mass of jet engines is currently outside of their physical model, a fact which has been exploited to make more stable rovers, among other things. This update would just give the engine model enough size to actually reach its COM

Edit: Ninja'd! Y'all are 2fast2quick

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Red Dwarf

Red Dwarf

Posted
Posted
Garbage like something that has absolutely zero gameplay value. They worked just fine without them. All it does is remove functionality, and not add anything.

VTOL's aren't dead though. We can work around the new turbines, by mounting them on external thrust pods which hide them. We could use other engines. Hell, I can think of some cool ways to actually use those new turbines. They'd make a good aesthetic part, for sure. I can see people using them as exhaust ports and such. The greebling potential here is pretty high.

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regex

regex

Posted
Posted
Sorry that was snarky, but I think its a fair point. An argument could easily be made that eliminating unrealistic/exploity engine mounting does add something to gameplay.
B B B B BUT MUH DUCTED FAN

It's just different. Like every change in this long-running, unfinished, early access experiment it's bound to meet with opposition.

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federicoaa

federicoaa

Posted
Posted

Now that you mentioned flight log, something that bothers me a bit is that every time you change either reload or go to another craft/scene the flight log resets.

Is it possible to have it persistent?

...Triple take... DELTA V BAR?? YAYAYAYAYYYYY!!! Does this mean we are finally getting a delta v indicator for our craft??

I hope my eyes aren't deceiving me cuz if they aren't, I'll be extremely happy.

I think they mean the burning time and delta-v indicator that appears when you set a node

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marach

marach

Posted
Posted
Sorry to derail our silly argument, but how does the F-35 lift fan work? Images make it look like it has a driveshaft... is that possible?

It's driven by a take off from the main jet so yes essentially it uses a driveshaft:P

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regex

regex

Posted
Posted
...Triple take... DELTA V BAR?? YAYAYAYAYYYYY!!! Does this mean we are finally getting a delta v indicator for our craft??
No, they're talking about the delta-V remaining in the maneuver guage, the one that appears when you have a maneuver node active.
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panzer1b

panzer1b

Posted
Posted (edited)

Im not against the new jet part that sticks inside, but i really wish it was toggleable so us sci-fi designers that just want a nice and compact craft can still have that ability, and all you realism obsessed folk can still get your turbines, not that itd be realistic at all to place that on a mk1 fuel tank unless it is out of phase (and thus its molecules do not interact with said fuel tank molecules).

Anyways, i dont really care that much. Its not exactly much work to edit the model and cut off the turbine thingy, and i bet (since i can see there is quite some opposition to this change), there will be a mod released that has jets as they were originally model wise (heck we can always use older models from 1.04 if we really want to be old school actually).

Also, while i doubt itd have a performance penalty (since its just some extra texture and polys, not another part), it is honestly stuff that youd never see in game anyway outside of the VAB.

Or well, maybee some of us can always offset the engine so it sticks outside and makes our aircraft look like they were made by rednecks.

Edited by panzer1b
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Red Dwarf

Red Dwarf

Posted
Posted
How is a VTOL line infiglide?

I think his point was that we've gotten used to, and in some cases come to rely on, some things which are not very realistic. Spamming control surfaces used to drastically increase flight time, and we came to rely on that. When they took it away, pretty much this same argument happened.

Jet engines in real life are more than just the nozzle, but we've gotten used to things being like this. Now they're changing it to be more realistic, and change is scary 0_0

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Frozen_Heart

Frozen_Heart

Posted
Posted
I think his point was that we've gotten used to, and in some cases come to rely on, some things which are not very realistic. Spamming control surfaces used to drastically increase flight time, and we came to rely on that. When they took it away, pretty much this same argument happened.

Jet engines in real life are more than just the nozzle, but we've gotten used to things being like this. Now they're changing it to be more realistic, and change is scary 0_0

A dedicated jet VTOL engine would be nice if this option is being taken away from us though. Unlike infiglide VTOL aircraft exist in real life.

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Red Dwarf

Red Dwarf

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A dedicated jet VTOL engine would be nice if this option is being taken away from us though. Unlike infiglide VTOL aircraft exist in real life.

I think the .625m jet is going to end up being this. I'm hoping that since the nozzle is tiny, the turbine will be tiny too, meaning we'll be able to place them with out too much regard for how things stick out. This is just speculation, but it may end up being that we only need three or four of those engines to get a small craft off the ground.

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