[WIP] German WWII rockets including never built absurdities

[TiktaalikDreaming]

59 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

Ah, k. I think that's ok but @ferram4 will know for sure. As for reversed--yes, @Ven had that issue as well where the physics were correct but the visual activation direction was flipped.

I did a fair amount of rearranging things and creating new objects and then making those parents of objects to swing my parts around to the right axis, as I got around to reading about wings and control surfaces after doing all the blender work.  I'll tidy that up, and see whether it behaves.

[Shaggygoblin]

Maybe you guys can help me out here.  A while back, sometime between .90 and 1.0.4 I was using a mod for a short while that had an A-4 or V-2 with a B&W Checked Paint to it, there were 3(?) parts: the Tail (Engine/Fins), tank, and the cone.  Might have been 4...  I can't recall what it was...  I thought it was from Tantares or another Launcher Parts Pack or History Pack, obviously it was, but it eludes me which one..  I checked Taerobee... not the same one going by the pictures, but could have been an older version before it was split from Tantares into the separate Taerobee mod...

Any ideas appreciated.  Looking forward to your finished product as well!  Looks amazing!

[CobaltWolf]

2 hours ago, Shaggygoblin said:

Maybe you guys can help me out here.  A while back, sometime between .90 and 1.0.4 I was using a mod for a short while that had an A-4 or V-2 with a B&W Checked Paint to it, there were 3(?) parts: the Tail (Engine/Fins), tank, and the cone.  Might have been 4...  I can't recall what it was...  I thought it was from Tantares or another Launcher Parts Pack or History Pack, obviously it was, but it eludes me which one..  I checked Taerobee... not the same one going by the pictures, but could have been an older version before it was split from Tantares into the separate Taerobee mod...

Any ideas appreciated.  Looking forward to your finished product as well!  Looks amazing!

It was the old V2 from Tantares. When Beale remade it he moved it over to Taerobee.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

It was the old V2 from Tantares. When Beale remade it he moved it over to Taerobee.

Glad you knew.  :-)

@Shaggygoblin brings up a question I've been meaning to ask. 

What colour scheme?  I've been picking the late plain olive green because it's by far the simplest.  While I'm still working on shape, and alignment etc, it's handy to just apply one colour.  During early tests, they used the black and white "test pattern", of which there were at least two patterns.  There were then at least four different camouflage patterns.  Plain Olive green.  And probably some others.  I'm leaning towards the black and white test patterns.  Partly as, in KSP, these are test rockets, not bombs.  The camouflage patterns and so on were only used on rockets with bombs.  But I'm open to ideas from others.

[CobaltWolf]

10 minutes ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

Glad you knew.  :-)

@Shaggygoblin brings up a question I've been meaning to ask. 

What colour scheme?  I've been picking the late plain olive green because it's by far the simplest.  While I'm still working on shape, and alignment etc, it's handy to just apply one colour.  During early tests, they used the black and white "test pattern", of which there were at least two patterns.  There were then at least four different camouflage patterns.  Plain Olive green.  And probably some others.  I'm leaning towards the black and white test patterns.  Partly as, in KSP, these are test rockets, not bombs.  The camouflage patterns and so on were only used on rockets with bombs.  But I'm open to ideas from others.

I definitely would lean away from the camo. I don't think their space exploration rockets would have kept a military paint scheme. I'm casting a vote for olive drab, with perhaps some bare metal panels and black (dark grey) markings.

[ferram4]

The wing part including a section of non-wing isn't a problem, FAR will handle it fine.  However, to repeat NK's statement, a separate part is needed for each fin / wing surface with FARWingAerodynamicModel / FARControllableSurface configs set up or they won't behave correctly.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

4 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

The wing part including a section of non-wing isn't a problem, FAR will handle it fine.  However, to repeat NK's statement, a separate part is needed for each fin / wing surface with FARWingAerodynamicModel / FARControllableSurface configs set up or they won't behave correctly.

Cool, thanks for the clarification @ferram4.

I'm going with four identical wing pieces around the engine.  The original/real had a single piece, but I decided that would make for very confusing stack nodes, so went with four side stack nodes, and the rear section divided into four.  Also, this way it'll be easier to mix and match sections from the A-4b, A-6s, A-9s etc.

[Whirligig Girl]

On 12/23/2015 at 8:12 PM, TiktaalikDreaming said:

All of them.  :-)

I thought you were told to add more than that.

[NathanKell]

For color scheme I suggest checkboard. Civilianized (I'm guessing for both non-nastiness reasons and no-banned-logo reasons we're going with a PoD of a surviving Weimar where Rocketmania never dies, and the Heereswaffenamt gradually re-civilianizes their VfR hires?) A-series rockets would presumably have a similar patter to what the same people painted on their test articles in the US, black-white patterns to make visually obvious any roll during ascent.

[Shaggygoblin]

Thanks for the info!  As FAR as color, you can never go wrong with salmon or coral!  JK, definitely some checkerboard/tracking pattern, one of b&w or  b&y would work.  I'm more interested in the function, in the end.  But aesthetically, as a vet myself, I would prob fly a historically-plausible camo/color pattern, if given the option (TexSwitch, or other means...)  I would not fly anything painted neon green, however.

At first read, this page appears to be a decent source of war-time colors/patterns, if you choose to go that route.

As well there's this one dedicated to post-war colors/patterns.  I like the B&Y or 3/4-color as you don't see them often.

Again, thanks for the point to Taerobee and hope to see this one flourish as well!!!

 

Edit: The pattern on these "Rockets" would look neat as well, especially when launching prior to unlocking controls.  cant the fins a half degree for a little spin to stabilize the ascent and that pattern could appear as an oscilloscope!!

Edited December 30, 2015 by Shaggygoblin
additional pattern/color sources

[TiktaalikDreaming]

7 hours ago, Shaggygoblin said:

Thanks for the info!  As FAR as color, you can never go wrong with salmon or coral!  JK, definitely some checkerboard/tracking pattern, one of b&w or  b&y would work.  I'm more interested in the function, in the end.  But aesthetically, as a vet myself, I would prob fly a historically-plausible camo/color pattern, if given the option (TexSwitch, or other means...)  I would not fly anything painted neon green, however.

At first read, this page appears to be a decent source of war-time colors/patterns, if you choose to go that route.

As well there's this one dedicated to post-war colors/patterns.  I like the B&Y or 3/4-color as you don't see them often.

Again, thanks for the point to Taerobee and hope to see this one flourish as well!!!

 

Edit: The pattern on these "Rockets" would look neat as well, especially when launching prior to unlocking controls.  cant the fins a half degree for a little spin to stabilize the ascent and that pattern could appear as an oscilloscope!!

The v2rocket site had occupied a fair bit of my time.  I hadn't seen the past eat patterns before though. The first yellow and black one might be unique in having a rotational four way symmetry on the fin section. Making it very tempting. 

Not so sure about the spiral pattern on the "rockets".  :-) 

[tater]

I recall a quote by von Braun saying that the trouble with the V-2 was that it landed on the wrong planet.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Updated to the first of the yellow and black patterns from http://www.postwarv2.com/paintschemes/

Specifically as it covers all bases of a bold, highly visible pattern for distant viewing and that the wing section (when chopped into four, as this mod does) all have the same pattern.

I'm considering switching the yellow for a more Kerbal green colour.  Logo for the agency has been added but will be changing to a cartoony Kerbalized edition of the Von Braun coat of arms as soon as I remember how to cartoon (which I was never good at anyway).

[Pappystein]

So downloaded this mod.  The A-4 engine is not compatible with the existing tanks (requires LOX and Alcohol, tanks are setup as LFO.

If there are additional mod dependence please  post them on your release site (Kerbalstuff) and OP.

TIA

[TiktaalikDreaming]

2 hours ago, Pappystein said:

So downloaded this mod.  The A-4 engine is not compatible with the existing tanks (requires LOX and Alcohol, tanks are setup as LFO.

If there are additional mod dependence please  post them on your release site (Kerbalstuff) and OP.

TIA

Both the engines and the tank are LiquidFuel + Oxidizer unless modulemanager detects RealFuels to be installed.  If so, they convert to LOX+Ethanol75%.  The code to convert is the same for both (as far as I can tell).

So, the questions will be, which version of Wernher's old crap are you using?  The latest version has the A-10 engine, but no associated fuel tanks.

And of the following, which mods do you also use?  RealFuels, CommunityResourcePack (old versions used this as the fuel switch), RealSolarSystem, ModuleManager. 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

On 30/12/2015 at 0:19 PM, NathanKell said:

For color scheme I suggest checkboard. Civilianized (I'm guessing for both non-nastiness reasons and no-banned-logo reasons we're going with a PoD of a surviving Weimar where Rocketmania never dies, and the Heereswaffenamt gradually re-civilianizes their VfR hires?) A-series rockets would presumably have a similar patter to what the same people painted on their test articles in the US, black-white patterns to make visually obvious any roll during ascent.

Speaking of logos, I'm aiming at some variation of the Von Braun coat of arms, probably eventually with EMW next to it (ElektroMechanischeWerke).

As per

Coat of arms still needs two peacock feathers and three fish.  Hardware is of course easier.  :-)

[halowraith1]

heyyy not a lot of activity going on here for a while. apparently a lot of modders are going on hiatus until 1.1's released because of the changes being made. is that what's happening here?

[TiktaalikDreaming]

32 minutes ago, halowraith1 said:

heyyy not a lot of activity going on here for a while. apparently a lot of modders are going on hiatus until 1.1's released because of the changes being made. is that what's happening here?

Well, I had my HDD crash, and I've basically just got a working OS with Unity and have been looking at all the various dev stuff to install, while also trying to recover data from the old HDD.  But development will begin again soon.

I did look at the new shaders in Unity5 (didn't realize you can have U4 and U5 installed) in prep for KSP1.1.  Those make a big difference to the look of stuff.  The metallic slider makes me very happy.

 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

Between a bit of a gap while rebuilding my PC and noticing FASA is becoming a collaborative effort headed by @NathanKell due to Frissank retiring from maintaining it, I've somehow been trapped making some bridging engines between the Aggregate rocket range and the NASA rockets.  So far I've been putting effort into the Redstone A-6 (NAA-75-110 so far, but deleting items from that gives the other A-6s, and then deleting parts from that gets the A-7s, mostly) which sits somehwere between this mod and the FASA mod.  I'm inclined to keep this mod for the German engines and the German imagined engines, aka Wernher's extrapolations on where they could take the Aggregate range.

So, I'm really just mentioning this so people know I have not forgotten this mod, just momentarily distracted from it.  That I'm open to ideas of whether the Redstones, Navahos etc belong here, in FASA, or a third mod.  And because this relates to this mod, even though it doesn't quite belong, the same people might be interested in it.  And, also, as I found out when doing this for the A-4, posting this gets floods of really useful help, links to info, and links to other mods doing the same thing that I never noticed.  :-)

Redstone progress will be added to the following imgur album;

 

[TiktaalikDreaming]

And after working on the A-6, I've gone back to my approximation of the A-10.  As far as technologies and problem solutions, I've picked mostly A-4 solutions.  A lot of the overall shape I've taken the A-6, but I added the full compressed air to hydrogen peroxide and sodium permaganate tanks to fuel a steam generator to run a turbine to pump the actual fuel and oxidizer.  Arranged very differently than the A-4, but using the same elements.  The main improvement I stole from the A-6 is the single combustion mixing chamber instead of the A-4's non-scaleable solution with 18 mixing chambers and the 18 sets of pipes.

 

And if the forum's caching thingy (or whatever is going on*) catches up, I've added some shots of texturing the monster.  It might take a while.  :-/
* Looks actually like imgur embed caching.  Non-embed links are updated, but the "use this great system for imbedding imgur albums" uses a cached copy.  Updated gallery at mercy of imgur cache policy.

Edited February 2, 2016 by TiktaalikDreaming

[halowraith1]

looking very pretty.

also, what's that on the second to last picture? engine fairing?

[TiktaalikDreaming]

4 hours ago, halowraith1 said:

looking very pretty.

also, what's that on the second to last picture? engine fairing?

 

4 hours ago, halowraith1 said:

 

Yep, engine fairing.  I figured it's a bit of a multipurpose engine, so engine fairing.

[Fizwalker]

This looks very interesting! Although your second post reminded me of this:

Looking forward to seeing more of your work!

[halowraith1]

will the rockets have the yellow colouring or the standard black and white 'checkerboard' livery?

 

Also, since the whole orbital program never really faced any proper development because of the war's end, it's kind of safe to say that the Germans never sketched out the idea of returning to earth in one piece (if i'm not mistaken) and if they did, it doesn't appear to be used in what little info there is available on the A-12. So the question is, how is the A-9 stage going to return to the ground? In addition to that, how is it going to orient itself for a deorbit burn? Again they don't appear to have thought about a means of manoeuvring.

 

(+with RSS installed the A-10 engine is much bigger than the V-2 rocket)

[TiktaalikDreaming]

5 hours ago, halowraith1 said:

will the rockets have the yellow colouring or the standard black and white 'checkerboard' livery?

 

Also, since the whole orbital program never really faced any proper development because of the war's end, it's kind of safe to say that the Germans never sketched out the idea of returning to earth in one piece (if i'm not mistaken) and if they did, it doesn't appear to be used in what little info there is available on the A-12. So the question is, how is the A-9 stage going to return to the ground? In addition to that, how is it going to orient itself for a deorbit burn? Again they don't appear to have thought about a means of manoeuvring.

 

(+with RSS installed the A-10 engine is much bigger than the V-2 rocket)

In order.

The yellow colouring will probably stay, although I don't much like it.  It was one of the US post WWII paint schemes for test firings, and happens to be the only scheme that has the same pattern in rotational symmetry for the wings.  Which makes it hugely beneficial to me texturing the thing.

 

The later stages had some far fetched plans to fly down on lifting bodies devoid of reentry heat protection.  I was hoping to have a working A-10 type thing before anyone noticed there was no provision for getting back down.

 

The A-10 engine is massive.  And I think it's much bigger than the V-2 without RSS as well, but I'll check when I get home.