Sedna Probe?

[Spaceception]

20 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

Might have to be smaller even, but yea absolutely. Falcon Heavy might be capable as well. You can forget going into orbit though. Itd strictly be a flyby. And like a... 30 year transfer.

I will not wait 30 years, my max is ten years.

[Motokid600]

1 minute ago, Spaceception said:

I will not wait 30 years, my max is ten years.

That's a very, very large rocket. I thought 30 was being optimistic for Sedna. Itd probably be more. 

[Spaceception]

Just now, Motokid600 said:

That's a very, very large rocket. I thought 30 was being optimistic for Sedna. Itd probably be more. 

It doesn't have to be a huge rocket if you use Solar sails/Ion propulsion. (And you dive bomb the sun to get as fast as possible)

[Motokid600]

56 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

It doesn't have to be a huge rocket if you use Solar sails/Ion propulsion. (And you dive bomb the sun to get as fast as possible)

Well then you'll have to wait 20 years for the tech to develop in order to do it in ten. 

[Spaceception]

Just now, Motokid600 said:

Well then you'll have to wait 20 years for the tech to develop in order to do it in ten. 

It's better than waiting 10 years for the tech to develop and 30 years for the flyby, 10 years less!

[Sanic]

4 hours ago, Spaceception said:

It's better than waiting 10 years for the tech to develop and 30 years for the flyby, 10 years less!

I've got enough years, though I might be 80 when the probe (assuming they actually undertake a mission) arrives  

Edited January 22, 2016 by Sanic

[fredinno]

6 hours ago, Spaceception said:

A New Horizons sized probe on a SLS?

I think this is the minimum size of a useful probe to Sedna.

[Spaceception]

3 minutes ago, fredinno said:

I think this is the minimum size of a useful probe to Sedna.

Who knows, it may have to be a bit bigger.

Have you read my Moon ideas? I think you'll like my idea for your Moon

Edited January 22, 2016 by Spaceception

[fredinno]

19 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Who knows, it may have to be a bit bigger.

Have you read my Moon ideas? I think you'll like my idea for your Moon

Wait, please. I know it's there, I'm just procrastinating.

[chadgaskerman]

22 hours ago, Nuke said:

it would probibly have to be a flyby. the delta-v to match the object's velocity is likely non trivial.

ION DRIVE FOR THE WIN

Though it would take some time

[Sanic]

13 minutes ago, chadgaskerman said:

ION DRIVE FOR THE WIN

Though it would take some time

Indeed. Just keep accelerating towards Sedna  

Edited January 22, 2016 by Sanic

[fredinno]

27 minutes ago, Sanic said:

Indeed. Just keep accelerating towards Sedna  

Good luck decelerating for the science flyby?

What? You get less data if you're travelling at ludricous speeds.

[chadgaskerman]

51 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Good luck decelerating for the science flyby?

What? You get less data if you're travelling at ludricous speeds.

Secondary LFO engine mounted on the nose?

[Nuke]

4 hours ago, Sanic said:

Indeed. Just keep accelerating towards Sedna  

these days it seems they just gravity assist like a boss.

and they do it with no delta-v budget.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Nuke

[magnemoe]

4 hours ago, fredinno said:

Good luck decelerating for the science flyby?

What? You get less data if you're travelling at ludricous speeds.

You can always land as I did with my first Moho probe. 
Needed 6km/s to get into orbit, had 1.5 so I landed. KSP qualifies it as an landing. 

[fredinno]

2 hours ago, magnemoe said:

You can always land as I did with my first Moho probe. 
Needed 6km/s to get into orbit, had 1.5 so I landed. KSP qualifies it as an landing. 

But then you need even more fuel...

[StrandedonEarth]

I wonder how much power they'd have to pour into the hi-gain antenna to get the same paltry bitrate New Horizons gets?

 

[batman78781]

10 hours ago, chadgaskerman said:

Secondary LFO engine mounted on the nose?

Probably not. If they were to do this they would use the normal thrusters they use for course corrections and slow down incrementally. It doesn't need to be on the nose, since they dont need communications back to earth, its all preprogrammed. It does the science, then points at earth once all the interesting stuff has passed.

[magnemoe]

4 hours ago, batman78781 said:

Probably not. If they were to do this they would use the normal thrusters they use for course corrections and slow down incrementally. It doesn't need to be on the nose, since they dont need communications back to earth, its all preprogrammed. It does the science, then points at earth once all the interesting stuff has passed.

Same as the Pluto flyby, communication time is to long to control it during flyby so you use the images taken during approach to program that to do. 

[_Augustus_]

Guys, I've had a thread on this. Sedna is much different from normal KBOs, it's colder, and has a different composition. It may have active cryovolcanism!

And why use SEP? SLS Block II with a Star-48 and using an Oberth maneuver is enough to get a 500kg probe to Sedna within 15 years.

[Ravenchant]

On 21. 1. 2016 at 8:07 PM, Motokid600 said:

Falcon Heavy might be capable as well.

Not without some sort of kick motor. According to some calculations that seemed...pretty in-depth, the FH could just about send itself (without payload) to Jupiter.

 

That said, a mission like this sounds perfect for nuclear electric propulsion. AFAIK Roscosmos is working on making a small reactor...again.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Ravenchant

[Sanic]

8 hours ago, Ravenchant said:

Not without some sort of kick motor. According to some calculations that seemed...pretty in-depth, the FH could just about send itself (without payload) to Jupiter.

Once you get to Jupiter, you can practically go anywhere in the solar system.

I'm sure that upper stage will teach us something  

[fredinno]

16 minutes ago, Sanic said:

Once you get to Jupiter, you can practically go anywhere in the solar system.

I'm sure that upper stage will teach us something  

That is, if the planets/objects align. That's not always the case.

[Streetwind]

17 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I wonder how much power they'd have to pour into the hi-gain antenna to get the same paltry bitrate New Horizons gets?

I ask myself this, too. I know it's going to be a lot. Probably at least twice as much, possibly four times as much. Unless this mission gets a full blown reactor, this is seriously going to hurt the plutonium stockpiles. In fact, NASA may simply not have enough, even though they just restarted production (veeery slowly).

This is a serious concern in regards to the feasibility of such a mission.

That said, I expect a decadal survey - perhaps the one in 2030 or 2040 - to start suggesting Sedna as a priority target. Before that happens, you can be sure that NASA won't bother, because they have other priority targets to worry about. But in 25-35 years, who knows what technology we'll have? As long as we can somehow fix up a way to generate 250 kW with an onboard reactor, ESA can just dig out their dual-stage, quadruple-gridded ion thruster prototype with over 19,000s of Isp. That ought to be enough for a flyby, maybe even an orbit. Depends on how much the power solution weighs, and whether or not we want to pay extra for an oversized launcher like the SLS to initially boost it out of Earth's gravity well despite the ion drive.

 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Streetwind

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, Streetwind said:

I ask myself this, too. I know it's going to be a lot. Probably at least twice as much, possibly four times as much. Unless this mission gets a full blown reactor, this is seriously going to hurt the plutonium stockpiles. In fact, NASA may simply not have enough, even though they just restarted production (veeery slowly).

This is a serious concern in regards to the feasibility of such a mission.

That said, I expect a decadal survey - perhaps the one in 2030 or 2040 - to start suggesting Sedna as a priority target. Before that happens, you can be sure that NASA won't bother, because they have other priority targets to worry about. But in 25-35 years, who knows what technology we'll have? As long as we can somehow fix up a way to generate 250 kW with an onboard reactor, ESA can just dig out their dual-stage, quadruple-gridded ion thruster prototype with over 19,000s of Isp. That ought to be enough for a flyby, maybe even an orbit. Depends on how much the power solution weighs, and whether or not we want to pay extra for an oversized launcher like the SLS to initially boost it out of Earth's gravity well despite the ion drive.

 

Americum RTGs could work here.