[1.1.3] Large Boat Parts Pack

[Eskandare]

1 hour ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I know that animation issue well, it's surprising how well a 1000 tonnes hangs in the air in ksp (floating in the air the same way bricks don't) I even tried starting the animation  very slowly then once the part/object is actually moving increase the animation speed but even that brings only the tiniest benefit and still takes forever.  Will you be leaving a dock with a default position being elevated? why?,  well that way players could leave a ship usable but not actually just kraken bait,  as if the default animation is in the lowered position it will return to that position at game restart and so drop the ship back in the sea (kraken bait)

Quoting Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 

My first test put the ship though the doors of the dock. Just a few adjustments to see how the ship physics issue will behave. I hope it doesn't just bounce around the dock exploding all over the place.

 

Edit 1: Well positioning the spawn point has been tricky, Trying to fin a point where there is very little drop and room for the screws to sit.

 

Edit 2: It works perfectly, no bounce, just a painfully slow deploy.

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Eskandare

[V8jester]

Oh man! The dry dock looks great! I haven't messed with KK in quite some time but I think you may have given me a new reason to start playing with it again

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

BIG NEWS

While you all have been waiting for the next update, with all the new parts and while we've been beating it all into shape @gomker and I have been working on another little side project that will become part of both LBP and SM Marine.

Called HullBreach this little plugin will cause your ships to sink when damaged being from shells ramming or even collision with the dock.  It works by allowing a quantity of seawater to flood into your ship,  and the more damage you have the faster your ship will sink.

The plugin comes with only one part, the actual part module is applied to all parts via a MM patch, the one part supplied is a large sea water pump, the purpose of this is to remove the water, operating using the resource convertor module it removes sea water converts it to intake air and dumps the excess over the side (Thanks to @Azimech for a better solution than just a generator) 
The joy of using the resource convertor is that it can be activated at staging and will only operate should there be sea water to be removed, otherwise it sits quietly, and requires no operator intervention. 
I am aiming for 1 pump per hull part, and located in each hull part,  1 pump will hold a hull breach until the temperature, which is what triggers the hull breach, drops to a suitable level and the breach seals. AS you acquire more damage more pumps will be needed to clear the water until you reach a point at which you simply don't have enough pumps, nothing stopping you fitting dozens of them though, but where's the fun in that! (I'll likely do a video of some sinkings shortly)

We wondered about the alarms and the need for any, right now you get a warning on screen to tell you that you are suffering from a hull breach and its progress, in tests i had alarms enabled but i can't honestly say that i heard them more than very faintly if it all, the noise of engines and guns plus the odd explosion drowns out almost any added sounds, so we've decided to leave it with the visible warnings only, as alongside the fact that you notice the message appearing on screen. the fact that your ship is sinking gives you a really strong hint

Related to this are further developments to the AirPark code and structure to make it more properly optimised for Boats and marine use in general, as you all know we deal with problems that no other environment does and as such some universal fixes for aircraft or rockets don't work so well with ships.  gomker has identified a couple of issues that are being tackled as i write, especially for weird interactions with vessel mover etc.

So there you go, it's happening Large Boat  Parts  will sink!

Edited September 3, 2016 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

[Eskandare]

10 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

BIG NEWS

While you all have been waiting for the next update, with all the new parts and while we've been beating it all into shape @gomker and I have been working on another little side project that will become part of both LBP and SM Marine.

Called HullBreach this little plugin will cause your ships to sink when damaged being from shells ramming or even collision with the dock.  It works by allowing a quantity of seawater to flood into your ship,  and the more damage you have the faster your ship will sink.

The plugin comes with only one part, the actual part module is applied to all parts via a MM patch, the one part supplied is a large sea water pump, the purpose of this is to remove the water, operating using the resource convertor module it removes sea water converts it to intake air and dumps the excess over the side (Thanks to @Azimech for a better solution than just a generator) 
The joy of using the resource convertor is that it can be activated at staging and will only operate should there be sea water to be removed, otherwise it sits quietly, and requires no operator intervention. 
I am aiming for 1 pump per hull part, and located in each hull part,  1 pump will hold a hull breach until the temperature, which is what triggers the hull breach, drops to a suitable level and the breach seals. AS you acquire more damage more pumps will be needed to clear the water until you reach a point at which you simply don't have enough pumps, nothing stopping you fitting dozens of them though, but where's the fun in that! (I'll likely do a video of some sinkings shortly)

We wondered about the alarms and the need for any, right now you get a warning on screen to tell you that you are suffering from a hull breach and its progress, in tests i had alarms enabled but i can't honestly say that i heard them more than very faintly if it all, the noise of engines and guns plus the odd explosion drowns out almost any added sounds, so we've decided to leave it with the visible warnings only, as alongside the fact that you notice the message appearing on screen. the fact that your ship is sinking gives you a really strong hint

Related to this are further developments to the AirPark code and structure to make it more properly optimised for Boats and marine use in general, as you all know we deal with problems that no other environment does and as such some universal fixes for aircraft or rockets don't work so well with ships.  gomker has identified a couple of issues that are being tackled as i write, especially for weird interactions with vessel mover etc.

So there you go, it's happening Large Boat  Parts  will sink!

 

Very Excited! I can't wait to sink ships. I'll implement it into my CVX mod.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Eskandare

[BF2_Pilot]

May be you can make a part for VLS . I know you have a VLS ,but it is round. I need a part for the box VLS

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

5 hours ago, BF2_Pilot said:

May be you can make a part for VLS . I know you have a VLS ,but it is round. I need a part for the box VLS

Like that? designed to fit the malfunc vls tubes

On 04/09/2016 at 5:51 AM, Eskandare said:

Very Excited! I can't wait to sink ships. I'll implement it into my CVX mod.

Been away for a day so a little behind, but I'll see if i can get you a testers copy so you can work out the correct quantities and flow rates for your parts. At the moment I'm doing everything via MM cfg and the current  setup is as follows

@PART[your part]
{

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleHullBreach //the part module
		flowRate = 110  /// the amount of sea water to flow an a normal breach event
		critFlowRate = 4000 // the amount of sea water to flow an a critical unrecoverable breach event
		breachTemp = 0.4 // temp part much reach  breach condition and start flowing sea water
		critBreachTemp = 0.8 // temp part much reach critical unrecoverable breach condition and increase flow of sea water

	
	hull = true // is a hull part so treated slightly differently than a superstructure part, can be true/false
	sponge = false // determines if part when submerged absorbs water, in the cas of heavily rolling or pitching vessels this allows water into the upper spaces and can cause instability and eventual capsize
	hydroExplosive = false // true or false.  determines if a part when submerged after a length or time will explode or not, the purpose of this is to make the incident as clean as possible, with as little debris requiring recovery as possible 
	}
	
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = SeaWater // the resource
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 10000 // the quantity of resource that the part holds, there is a case for not having this equal across all parts, different values in different components or parts produce more interesting sinkings
	}
}

 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

The video of the sinking effect is now live and posted on SM Marine

 

[cavilier210]

For your sinking, are you going to try to have it similar to NANA sinking about in that superstructure and weapons are treated differently? Like weapons exploding when submerged, and superstructure would soak up water at a different rate when submerged.

That'd be cool. Though, I don't know if that would be a problem.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

10 minutes ago, cavilier210 said:

For your sinking, are you going to try to have it similar to NANA sinking about in that superstructure and weapons are treated differently? Like weapons exploding when submerged, and superstructure would soak up water at a different rate when submerged.

That'd be cool. Though, I don't know if that would be a problem.

Our aim is that nothing survives, this means that many things will have to use a patch for compatibility, but if I can write a patch for over 100 parts i reckon anyone can do it. and if you read the enclosed code section it clearly states those things you suggest.   The code itself is much cleaner and less self involved than the NANA sinkingabout code, Our  original plan was to get the NANA fully functional, but license issues, and on examination thoughts that we could do it better, led to this much more efficient collection of methods and functions

[gomker]

Hey everyone as a follow up to recent updates I have started putting the mods on SpaceDock for easier download and also allowing publishing to CKAN. These are definitely Beta releases however, so far testing has not revealed any major problems. Mostly balancing and tweaking is left to be done.

Also updates to AirPark are available to keep your ships from jumping all about.  SpaceDock  and if you are technically inclined and want the bleeding edge changes I may push Github

Github issues are enabled as well for bug reports and will be as well for HullBreach when it is fully published.

[BF2_Pilot]

21 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Like that? designed to fit the malfunc vls tubes

Been away for a day so a little behind, but I'll see if i can get you a testers copy so you can work out the correct quantities and flow rates for your parts. At the moment I'm doing everything via MM cfg and the current  setup is as follows

@PART[your part]
{

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleHullBreach //the part module
		flowRate = 110  /// the amount of sea water to flow an a normal breach event
		critFlowRate = 4000 // the amount of sea water to flow an a critical unrecoverable breach event
		breachTemp = 0.4 // temp part much reach  breach condition and start flowing sea water
		critBreachTemp = 0.8 // temp part much reach critical unrecoverable breach condition and increase flow of sea water

	
	hull = true // is a hull part so treated slightly differently than a superstructure part, can be true/false
	sponge = false // determines if part when submerged absorbs water, in the cas of heavily rolling or pitching vessels this allows water into the upper spaces and can cause instability and eventual capsize
	hydroExplosive = false // true or false.  determines if a part when submerged after a length or time will explode or not, the purpose of this is to make the incident as clean as possible, with as little debris requiring recovery as possible 
	}
	
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = SeaWater // the resource
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 10000 // the quantity of resource that the part holds, there is a case for not having this equal across all parts, different values in different components or parts produce more interesting sinkings
	}
}

 

...Oh,my mean is a part for VLS, on the second floor like the‘‘ ModernSuperMidVLS ’‘ That part has 6 cylinders. I need designed to fit the malfunc vls tubes

Edited September 6, 2016 by BF2_Pilot

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

21 minutes ago, BF2_Pilot said:

...Oh,my mean is a part for VLS, on the second floor like the‘‘ ModernSuperMidVLS ’‘ That part has 6 cylinders. I need designed to fit the malfunc vls tubes

Ok i get the plan, that is  doable, I'll try to get something in for the next update.  How many tubes do you envisage in the array? Single line straight across is the easiest as I can make a custom sliver to fit between or at the ends of other part groups..

Some caution may be needed if you intend to use this and the HullBreach sinking enhancement as the missile exhaust does constitute a source of external heat and may contribute to any damage received.  In fact this really needs immediate and further investigation.

Edited September 6, 2016 by SpannerMonkey(smce)
snip

[gomker]

56 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

missile exhaust does constitute a source of external heat

I did not consider that. How much heat though? I would think it would be nominal compared to the MaxTemp of the part, but I have not tested much with the VLS as my missile explode on impact with water still with VesselMover.  I will buff them up and to a round of testing.

[cavilier210]

1 hour ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Ok i get the plan, that is  doable, I'll try to get something in for the next update.  How many tubes do you envisage in the array? Single line straight across is the easiest as I can make a custom sliver to fit between or at the ends of other part groups..

Some caution may be needed if you intend to use this and the HullBreach sinking enhancement as the missile exhaust does constitute a source of external heat and may contribute to any damage received.  In fact this really needs immediate and further investigation.

Are you using a check for submergence? Like the missile may warm the launcher, but the launcher be out of the water, and so unable to obtain water when "damaged".

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Just now, gomker said:

I did not consider that. How much heat though? I would think it would be nominal compared to the MaxTemp of the part, but I have not tested much with the VLS as my missile explode on impact with water still with VesselMover.  I will buff them up and to a round of testing.

A lot of it depends on the launch sequence, the throw time which is the decouple force and the ignition time, some missiles light early and have a limited throw, meaning that they ignite while still in the tube, while others particularly those designed for VLS use may have a much stronger decouple force with a fwd moment and a delayed engine ignition to enable them to clear . Either way our increasing familiarity with the inner workings of MM means that we can change anything via a patch so I'm not that worried.

Ref the exploding missiles with Vessel mover, I'd really forgotten all about that as it's not an issue i have, I use KK exclusively for launches and never have vls or missiles issues.

I should have made this available as soon as i took over, but better late than never,  get a copy of KK delete all the statics, and just unzip and drop this folder either in LBP or GameData. 

This is a channel marker buoy with a spawn point for large ships, I have already placed one just off shore from ksc with preset launch details and logo , select as launch site  and launch ships directly to water .  This part will become a permanent feature of LBP and can be considered a pre release bonus, and is governed under the same license as LBP ( please read  instructions for  placing a new buoy , at foot of post )

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jx5duzrsq4f32sq/ChannelMarkerGreen.zip?dl=0

The above is the logo that will appear in the launch selection window

The full sized image below

Notes on correct placement, note on the image above that across the lower portion of the object is a lighter colored band this band must be exactly on or slightly above water level to ensure safe spawning of your vessel. Failure to follow these instructions  and doing it your own way absolves me of any need to provide sympathy or support

[Guest]

On 9/3/2016 at 0:27 PM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

BIG NEWS

While you all have been waiting for the next update, with all the new parts and while we've been beating it all into shape @gomker and I have been working on another little side project that will become part of both LBP and SM Marine.

Called HullBreach this little plugin will cause your ships to sink when damaged being from shells ramming or even collision with the dock.  It works by allowing a quantity of seawater to flood into your ship,  and the more damage you have the faster your ship will sink.

The plugin comes with only one part, the actual part module is applied to all parts via a MM patch, the one part supplied is a large sea water pump, the purpose of this is to remove the water, operating using the resource convertor module it removes sea water converts it to intake air and dumps the excess over the side (Thanks to @Azimech for a better solution than just a generator) 
The joy of using the resource convertor is that it can be activated at staging and will only operate should there be sea water to be removed, otherwise it sits quietly, and requires no operator intervention. 
I am aiming for 1 pump per hull part, and located in each hull part,  1 pump will hold a hull breach until the temperature, which is what triggers the hull breach, drops to a suitable level and the breach seals. AS you acquire more damage more pumps will be needed to clear the water until you reach a point at which you simply don't have enough pumps, nothing stopping you fitting dozens of them though, but where's the fun in that! (I'll likely do a video of some sinkings shortly)

We wondered about the alarms and the need for any, right now you get a warning on screen to tell you that you are suffering from a hull breach and its progress, in tests i had alarms enabled but i can't honestly say that i heard them more than very faintly if it all, the noise of engines and guns plus the odd explosion drowns out almost any added sounds, so we've decided to leave it with the visible warnings only, as alongside the fact that you notice the message appearing on screen. the fact that your ship is sinking gives you a really strong hint

Related to this are further developments to the AirPark code and structure to make it more properly optimised for Boats and marine use in general, as you all know we deal with problems that no other environment does and as such some universal fixes for aircraft or rockets don't work so well with ships.  gomker has identified a couple of issues that are being tackled as i write, especially for weird interactions with vessel mover etc.

So there you go, it's happening Large Boat  Parts  will sink!

I knew you could do it

[BF2_Pilot]

20 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Ok i get the plan, that is  doable, I'll try to get something in for the next update.  How many tubes do you envisage in the array? Single line straight across is the easiest as I can make a custom sliver to fit between or at the ends of other part groups..

Some caution may be needed if you intend to use this and the HullBreach sinking enhancement as the missile exhaust does constitute a source of external heat and may contribute to any damage received.  In fact this really needs immediate and further investigation.

Thank you , Can the '' Modern Medium part '' put from 20 to 40 VLS?

[XOC2008]

@SpannerMonkey(smce): Loving what you've been doing with these parts, as LBP has been one of my favorites since Laythe started putting it together, and I can't wait for the sinking portion to be added. I think we need some bow thrusters for these big ships. Something that functions like a big RCS but uses liquidfuel to help steer.

[Bitrefresh]

when i leave my vessels and then return to them, when the physics load they launch into the air ??

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

1 hour ago, Bitrefresh said:

when i leave my vessels and then return to them, when the physics load they launch into the air ??

Sadly yes they  can do that, please read back a few pages and there is a lot of advice given for combating this. It is unfortunately a known KSP bug that modders have little control over and certainly are not the cause. With luck, they tell me that it will be fixed in KSP 1.2

[Bitrefresh]

45 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Sadly yes they  can do that, please read back a few pages and there is a lot of advice given for combating this. It is unfortunately a known KSP bug that modders have little control over and certainly are not the cause. With luck, they tell me that it will be fixed in KSP 1.2

i read those, but im wondering if there is anything i can do. i do not want to have to use some kind of anchoring plugin.. i build the vessels ahead of time but even using vessel mover they fail to spawn reliably 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Just now, Bitrefresh said:

i read those, but im wondering if there is anything i can do. i do not want to have to use some kind of anchoring plugin.. i build the vessels ahead of time but even using vessel mover they fail to spawn reliably 

All you can do is heed the lighter smaller advice, as mentioned elsewhere, the smaller lighter ship and boat mods don't suffer this problem very much if at all, I can't remember the last time a SMM hull went airborne unless heavily throttle provoked. I wish there was some insta fix, but we've been playing this game of roulette since the demise of ksp1.0.5 and we've found no easy answer, and much bigger and better brains than mine have tried.

[Bitrefresh]

1 minute ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

All you can do is heed the lighter smaller advice, as mentioned elsewhere, the smaller lighter ship and boat mods don't suffer this problem very much if at all, I can't remember the last time a SMM hull went airborne unless heavily throttle provoked. I wish there was some insta fix, but we've been playing this game of roulette since the demise of ksp1.0.5 and we've found no easy answer, and much bigger and better brains than mine have tried.

ah..that really bites.. even my Mutsuki suffers..poor girl

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

13 minutes ago, Bitrefresh said:

ah..that really bites.. even my Mutsuki suffers..poor girl

Ah that's a pity she's only a tiny thing too, destroyers are usually less prone, so I'm a little suprised at that, but thinking on I really haven't spent the time on the WW2 stuff that I should have, so that may bear some examination

[Bitrefresh]

4 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Ah that's a pity she's only a tiny thing too, destroyers are usually less prone, so I'm a little suprised at that, but thinking on I really haven't spent the time on the WW2 stuff that I should have, so that may bear some examination

i saw that air park on space dock when i searced large for LBP, gonna try to work with this i guess,