[1.1.3] Large Boat Parts Pack

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

13 hours ago, War Eagle 1 said:

Also the latest update broke a lot of my surface crafts.

Hi,  While i have announced possibly breaking changes in thread,    I've deliberately avoided changes that can break things, however  in an ideal world the next update would break everything, as I am not happy having multiples of the same textures spread throughout the mod  there's no need for it, and it's wasteful  .  You are probably just unlucky having used all the parts that have new versions and a such are sharing textures , and so the folder path has changed even though the part is still there 

       The only way to guarantee  that nothing will break because of an update is to abandon the mod and no longer update it.  Sadly you can't have it both ways , you either want things improved or you don't, if you don't want the improvements simply don't update  

As for not being able to rebuild, why not, what stops you from having another build and rebuilding the broken ships?  then importing them back to your RP game, Also some of the problems you describe would have been alleviated by following the nominated installation procedure

Water was dropped  from LBP as the CRP has a definition the conflicts with the values we had been using, the only resources present now are fuel, EC,  BallastWater for trimming and Seawater used by the HullBreach mod.  BallastWater is also used for the bow thrusters,  any resource with mass can be used as a propellant

14 hours ago, War Eagle 1 said:

please for the love of all that is holy stop messing with the cfgs every update and making ships previous update ships unusable  

I would counter this with, for the love of all that is holy please at least read the latest posts before updating, nobody forced the update upon you, apart from you.

On 06/11/2016 at 5:49 AM, Jacksonion said:

have one problem i cant find the right part i need for the battleship,cruiser,etc and in the pictures you have already built them so can you make it were we can download the ship? So we don't have to build them.

Hi no idea what part you  are talking about, the only parts you see in screenshots that are not in LBP are those parts from SM Marine and all those parts are available.   A quick look back through the screenshots I've  posted recently shows nothing missing for the current release. Also please note that many of the ships i build  are very high part count and occasionally feature in dev items which make them unsuitable for sharing . At this time the selection of parts for WW2 craft is very limited, any of the WW2 ship screenshots you've seen are results of other players builds and ingenuity.   Aside from the  two cruiser parts I've not made or released or even touched any WW2 parts

12 hours ago, Pupun2542 said:

what missile that small VLS superstructure support?

I use PAC-3, SM-2, ESSM but they're too long

The only missiles that currently fit can be found in Boomsticks, the vette VLS was a proof of concept and although it remains.  it was decided a while ago that it was too small to be useful and in all likelihood will either be removed or disabled, possibly becoming a simple cargo space in later versions.

 

[cavilier210]

Quote

The only missiles that currently fit can be found in Boomsticks, the vette VLS was a proof of concept and although it remains.  it was decided a while ago that it was too small to be useful and in all likelihood will either be removed or disabled, possibly becoming a simple cargo space in later versions.

I rather like it. I've found Harpoons fit well in the Vette VLS superstructure part. If there was a radar or laser guided missile in a mod that fit, it would actually be great.

Is it possible you could add missiles like that to Boomsticks? I'm personally not familiar with missile models and tech, so I'll support whichever way you go personally.

[TMasterson5]

On 11/7/2016 at 8:03 PM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I would counter this with, for the love of all that is holy please at least read the latest posts before updating, nobody forced the update upon you, apart from you.

The only missiles that currently fit can be found in Boomsticks, the vette VLS was a proof of concept and although it remains.  it was decided a while ago that it was too small to be useful and in all likelihood will either be removed or disabled, possibly becoming a simple cargo space in later versions.

 

He said the same thing to me and I countered with the same thing on my mod lol

I second the cargo space thing, that would actually be pretty handy and I quite like that idea!

 

Also if you ever want some help with the mod let me know man! I find myself having an assortment of hull parts and such that I make anyways.

Lastly thanks for sending me that texture file, all of my ship parts have been updated to match LBPP now that it has a color that actually looks nice, well done man!

[Jacksonion]

On 11/6/2016 at 10:53 PM, cavilier210 said:

What part are you talking about?

most of the brige parts

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

37 minutes ago, Jacksonion said:

most of the brige parts

HI, those parts are either from the LBP mod or SM Marine, there are no others. All of the available bridge parts for LBP are contained within the parts required folder

[The_Right_Arm]

I must say, I absolutely love this mod, and I've been having a blast building boats and sailing around blowing up the space center with salvo after salvo.  Never gets old.  I am curious though, I've tried sailing a fleet together using the BDArmory wing command module, but it doesn't really work for boats because they can't take off, and because of that I can't control them because they're stuck in the Gain Altitude phase perpetually.  I've seen that Burn Together hasn't been updated in a while (unless I just found an old thread, but I think it was last updated for 1.1.2) and that's the only other mod I could think of for controlling something like this.  Could you recommend a mod that would allow me to sail an armada together to rain death upon my foes?

Thanks,

Right Arm

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

9 hours ago, The_Right_Arm said:

Could you recommend a mod that would allow me to sail an armada together to rain death upon my foes?

Hi, as you've discovered wing commander is great for aircraft but not so good for anything else, that though is by design, it was always meant to be an aircraft AI .  Here's a link to the last version of Burn Together from the BDAc team, compiled for 1.2 so it may or may not work in 1.2.1 https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BurnTogether/releases/download/0.0.7.2/BurnTogether.0.0.7.2_09152016.zip...  I have no idea if it'll work for ships, never tried.

   I do know that the game starts to tank when you've half a dozen ships in one scene and goes to flick book animation when you get to around 8 ships. but that of course depends massively on part count, and typically my builds get up to around 200+ parts.  

For fleet combat i usually set up team A as defenders, so not underway/moving and team B will start just out of range about 4kmish as this is the point the the planets curvature drops the opponent out of LOS , I set team B individually moving on a course diagonal to the defenders at about 8/10ms . bump the guard mode range to about 5km, switch on guard mode for the lot and sit bit and watch the chaos unfold. 

  I see one huge snag with actually controlling the whole fleet at once and that being the phantom force that converts the rudders lift force into speed, i can envision that it would be too easy to lose control of the whole fleet and once the leader starts to veer the rest of the fleet will likely fall foul of the phantom force. If you do manage to get some decent results do share though as it's something I'm definitely considering working toward, and the more info i get the easier it will be to work out the best way forward.

Cheers

Spoiler

 

[cavilier210]

Hey Spanner, I was wondering, is the smoke from the smokestacks supposed to be flat like this? I imagine the smoke should be shooting up a little, and then over the ship.

 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

14 minutes ago, cavilier210 said:

Hey Spanner, I was wondering, is the smoke from the smokestacks supposed to be flat like this? I imagine the smoke should be shooting up a little, and then over the ship.

 

Hmm i know, just having a little trouble switching the FX all to U5 emitters , the results are not quite the same as i was getting in U4  and the best idea is I'll likely to just use stock smoke in the next update until i get it set up right.

Nicely busy looking ship buddy,  have a ship builders cookie also pretty cool shadow on the island in the background,  two cookies

 

[cavilier210]

1 minute ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hmm i know, just having a little trouble switching the FX all to U5 emitters , the results are not quite the same as i was getting in U4  and the best idea is I'll likely to just use stock smoke in the next update until i get it set up right.

Nicely busy looking ship buddy,  have a ship builders cookie also pretty cool shadow on the island in the background,  two cookies

 

Why thank you good sir! *Noms cookies*

[XOC2008]

I've had SOME success using Burn Together with the ships, though occasionally I'll have one follower that will match speed, but extra followers drop to almost nothing on the throttle and lag behind.

[The_Right_Arm]

10 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hi, as you've discovered wing commander is great for aircraft but not so good for anything else, that though is by design, it was always meant to be an aircraft AI .  Here's a link to the last version of Burn Together from the BDAc team, compiled for 1.2 so it may or may not work in 1.2.1 https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BurnTogether/releases/download/0.0.7.2/BurnTogether.0.0.7.2_09152016.zip...  I have no idea if it'll work for ships, never tried.

   I do know that the game starts to tank when you've half a dozen ships in one scene and goes to flick book animation when you get to around 8 ships. but that of course depends massively on part count, and typically my builds get up to around 200+ parts.  

For fleet combat i usually set up team A as defenders, so not underway/moving and team B will start just out of range about 4kmish as this is the point the the planets curvature drops the opponent out of LOS , I set team B individually moving on a course diagonal to the defenders at about 8/10ms . bump the guard mode range to about 5km, switch on guard mode for the lot and sit bit and watch the chaos unfold. 

  I see one huge snag with actually controlling the whole fleet at once and that being the phantom force that converts the rudders lift force into speed, i can envision that it would be too easy to lose control of the whole fleet and once the leader starts to veer the rest of the fleet will likely fall foul of the phantom force. If you do manage to get some decent results do share though as it's something I'm definitely considering working toward, and the more info i get the easier it will be to work out the best way forward.

Cheers

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thanks mate, I'll be sure to give it a try once I'm home.  I'll post back with my results.

[The_Right_Arm]

10 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hi, as you've discovered wing commander is great for aircraft but not so good for anything else, that though is by design, it was always meant to be an aircraft AI .  Here's a link to the last version of Burn Together from the BDAc team, compiled for 1.2 so it may or may not work in 1.2.1 https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BurnTogether/releases/download/0.0.7.2/BurnTogether.0.0.7.2_09152016.zip...  I have no idea if it'll work for ships, never tried.

   I do know that the game starts to tank when you've half a dozen ships in one scene and goes to flick book animation when you get to around 8 ships. but that of course depends massively on part count, and typically my builds get up to around 200+ parts.  

For fleet combat i usually set up team A as defenders, so not underway/moving and team B will start just out of range about 4kmish as this is the point the the planets curvature drops the opponent out of LOS , I set team B individually moving on a course diagonal to the defenders at about 8/10ms . bump the guard mode range to about 5km, switch on guard mode for the lot and sit bit and watch the chaos unfold. 

  I see one huge snag with actually controlling the whole fleet at once and that being the phantom force that converts the rudders lift force into speed, i can envision that it would be too easy to lose control of the whole fleet and once the leader starts to veer the rest of the fleet will likely fall foul of the phantom force. If you do manage to get some decent results do share though as it's something I'm definitely considering working toward, and the more info i get the easier it will be to work out the best way forward.

Cheers

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thanks mate, I'll be sure to give it a try once I'm home.  I'll post back with my results.

[Guest]

Vessel Mover never works with these parts

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

16 minutes ago, Murican_Jeb said:

Vessel Mover never works with these parts

Hi, well all i can say is that's the first time I've seen that since pre release  and I've been moving ships around all day using vessel mover, are you using KJR?  It is still a recommended mod for these parts.    Thank you so much for the clear and concise bug report though, the information you supplied will be invaluable 

[Guest]

Actually, it also happened in 1.1.3.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

1 minute ago, Murican_Jeb said:

Actually, it also happened in 1.1.3.

A lot of bad things happened in 1.1.3 and non of them have any relevance now.

22 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Thank you so much for the clear and concise bug report though, the information you supplied will be invaluable 

thats a hint by the way/\

[Guest]

Well I didn't need those parts anyway

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@Murican_Jeb are you sure they are the latest parts?  the hull in the image looks like it's the old color?  You didn't say if you use KJR or not,  Also do you use autostrut on the parts?, if so try without, shortly after autostrut arrived we discovered that it does bad things to ships

[Guest]

 @SpannerMonkey(smce) Yes they are the latest parts. The colour is my own retexturing. I used KJR and I didn't use Autostrut.

[cavilier210]

4 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

@Murican_Jeb are you sure they are the latest parts?  the hull in the image looks like it's the old color?  You didn't say if you use KJR or not,  Also do you use autostrut on the parts?, if so try without, shortly after autostrut arrived we discovered that it does bad things to ships

Does that go for rigid attachment as well?

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

53 minutes ago, cavilier210 said:

Does that go for rigid attachment as well?

Hi, No because of a little known bit of cfg trickery from 1.2,  the nodes are defined as rigid on all the hull parts,  if you have a look you will find that the node value is a lot longer than you'll be used to seeing. something like this;

node_stack_back = 0, -100, 0, 0, -1, 0, 7, 1, 1  =  x,y,z,x,y,z,size,crossfeed true/false,rigidConnection true/false

SO by default all hull parts are rigid, and unlike the gui option this way strengthens both attached nodes rather than just one of a pair

Edited November 14, 2016 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

[cavilier210]

So, I was getting vessel mover wonkiness myself, but after removing persistent rotation and hyperedit, much of my issues have gone. Persistent rotation was from SVE. So, if the rest of you who are having issues have those mods, try removing them and see what happens?

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

21 minutes ago, cavilier210 said:

So, I was getting vessel mover wonkiness myself, but after removing persistent rotation and hyperedit, much of my issues have gone. Persistent rotation was from SVE. So, if the rest of you who are having issues have those mods, try removing them and see what happens?

Interesting, I'd imagine though that hyper edit is blameless, it only does things when you tell it to, unlike PR which i believe affects everything.  There's also the fact that I've always used HE for the resource top ups. and as mentioned previously I spend a lot of time moving ships, well everything really with a combo of vessel mover and KK, and not one bit of wonkiness have i observed ( not since 1.2 and the new KJR)   That said I'm well aware that virtually everybody who uses LBP has a completely different set of mods, my testers have a massive selection of mods we test against and alongside, but i doubt we can nail every combination. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A point always to consider when piling on the mods, is that the LBP has some of the heaviest largest parts in game and other mods, more often used with normal sized craft may just not be suitable for a game with such massive parts and masses.  The setup i use to test LBP has all the weapon and decent marine mods, a touch of scatterer and that's it,  I do run at present 8 different set ups of KSP though from vanilla to the 130 mod folders and  3600 plus, MM patches, and they all have a version of LBP and LBP is very well behaved in all of them.  

Ill have a word with gomker when he returns from his business trip and see if we can find some way to nullify or minimize the problems, that's all dependent on being able to define what is actually happening, we've had some things lately that have defied diagnosis..

I've looked at murican jebs picture of failure and i can say one thing for sure,  that there is how not to build a heavy ship,  two of what look like NAS turrets, so damn heavy, sitting out on the extreme ends of the hull with nothing to  support the mid joints is a recipe for either failure at launch or failure in use, and  how it was built can seriously affect the nodes strength,

There are rules about how things connect to other things and one thing you cant do is connect in a loop, which i why you see all the wacky picture of many boostered  rockets looking like spaghetti at launch, and clipped cargo bays flopping around in flight.

  Each part can only really connect to  1 other node, despite how it looks that is the way it is , so although it looks like all your parts are attached to each other they aren't, your hull nodes should be  connected solidly to each other and everything you stack on top of that will only be connected to 1 of the hull sections,  even if you had a full deck part that went end to end to cover the joints it would still only be attached to 1 hull section not 3..

Not pointing fingers here or trying to make anyone look bad or feel small  , just presenting some points of which you may not have been fully aware,

Any dummy can stick 3 bits together flop some turrets and a stack on it and call it a ship, but to get reliable strong ships that can be beaten up , picked up, dropped, launched to water by whatever means and be fun takes a little more time and finesse,  i don't go mad by any means,  my builds usually end up around 200 parts before launch, V8Jester and  XOC 2008 i know go a lot further than that on occasion.   So the reverse of the engineering adage is true too, if it looks wrong it usually is

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Notice regarding the the Harbors and piers etc seen in my screenshots