Does anyone else find Kerbol too big?

[Snark]

1 hour ago, Archgeek said:

What, no atmospheric analysis of the sun? XD

This was before the sun had an atmosphere, which I believe is a fairly recent addition.  In fact, I only discovered that it had an atmosphere just now when you mentioned it and I went and looked it up.

At the time I discovered this lighting effect, I was running the Karbonite+ mod, where you can collect a resource (Karborundum) that lets you run ludicrously overpowered sci-fi engines, but the stuff is very hard to come by and available only in certain very hard-to-get-to places.  One of those places was the Sun.  Specifically, within 2000 meters of the sun.  Note that I said "meters", not "kilometers".  As in, orbiting less than 2 kilometers from the surface of the Sun.  (This was in 0.90, before all the fancy heat-management and radiators and stuff, so getting close to the sun didn't actually hurt anything.)

[Nicole]

Just a fun fact, but doing the math on the size of Kerbol and it's actually too small to possibly be a star, it would only be a brown dwarf.

[regex]

2 minutes ago, Nicole said:

Just a fun fact, but doing the math on the size of Kerbol and it's actually too small to possibly be a star, it would only be a brown dwarf.

Yes, that's been known for a long time.  It's yet another reason it's too damn big 

Edited March 6, 2016 by regex

[Capac Amaru]

I find it too empty. Needs more things. Cities. Rivers. Icebergs.

[Red Iron Crown]

4 minutes ago, Capac Amaru said:

I find it too empty. Needs more things. Cities. Rivers. Icebergs.

On the surface of the sun?

[Capac Amaru]

Just now, Red Iron Crown said:

On the surface of the sun?

Oh damn, my bad, I thought we were talking about Kerbin lol. Need more sleep I guess.

Stars definitely need more icebergs though.

[r_rolo1]

Hum, a iceberg in the sun would be quite a easter egg

[Nicole]

12 minutes ago, regex said:

Yes, that's been known for a long time.  It's yet another reason it's too damn big 

 Somehow that seems like Kerbal logic, bravo.

[KerikBalm]

he's talking about the volume, not the mass.

It doesn't have the mass to be a star, and changing the volume/density won't change that either way... well, I guess with increasing density, you get closer to conditions needed for hydrogen fusion... but if it was that dense at that mass, it wouldn't be made of hydrogen in the first place.

Anyway, I agree, propotionately, the sun is too big, and Mun is too close

[regex]

35 minutes ago, Nicole said:

 Somehow that seems like Kerbal logic, bravo.

Well, think about it.  The entire solar system in KSP is scaled down with Sol system analogues: An inner rocky planet, a planet relatively the same size as the habitable one with a thick atmosphere, a habitable planet, an arid planet with a thin atmosphere, a dwarf planet, a gas giant, an ice planet that was supposed to be the moon of a second gas giant...  It then follows, given the color of Kerbol (the Sun), that it be a G-class star.  The problem is that Kerbol is too big and not dense enough to be a G-class to-scale analogue.  Reducing the diameter while keeping the mass the same would help solve the density problem and bring its scale back in line with the majority of the rest of the solar system while retaining the exact same orbital parameters within the rest of the solar system (no gameplay changes).

Edited March 6, 2016 by regex

[GDJ]

52 minutes ago, regex said:

Well, think about it.  The entire solar system in KSP is scaled down with Sol system analogues: An inner rocky planet, a planet relatively the same size as the habitable one with a thick atmosphere, a habitable planet, an arid planet with a thin atmosphere, a dwarf planet, a gas giant, an ice planet that was supposed to be the moon of a second gas giant...

 It then follows, given the color of Kerbol (the Sun), that it be a G-class star.  The problem is that Kerbol is too big and not dense enough to be a G-class to-scale analogue.  Reducing the diameter while keeping the mass the same would help solve the density problem and bring its scale back in line with the majority of the rest of the solar system while retaining the exact same orbital parameters within the rest of the solar system (no gameplay changes).

For it to be a proper G main sequence star it would have to be far FAR larger and heavier than Kerbol is right now.
Right now Kerbol is a little bigger than Jupiter, which from a previous post, the right size for a brown dwarf  (139,822 km in diameter for Jupiter. Kerbol is aproximately 261 600  Km). The sun's diameter is 1.392684 million km in diameter. That's around 5 times the size of Kerbol. In order for Kerbol to be a proper G main sequence star (and barely that) it would have to be around 1/3 solar masses and at least tripled in diameter.

Honestly Squad could double the diameter for Kerbol, stretch the solar system a fair bit and it's still far FAR smaller than our solar system.
 

So I do agree with you to a point. It's definitely not dense enough, but it's WAY too small as well.

Edited March 7, 2016 by GDJ

[regex]

15 minutes ago, GDJ said:

For it to be a proper G main sequence star it would have to be far FAR larger and heavier than Kerbol is right now.

We're not talking about realistic scales here, we're talking about a scaled-down toy solar system.  The Sun doesn't fit the scale.

[Snark]

14 minutes ago, GDJ said:

So I do agree with you to a point. It's definitely not dense enough, but it's WAY too small as well.

Well, yeah, but on the other hand there's definitely something screwy going on with basic matter physics in KSP, given that the planets are 10x as dense as IRL.  So, given that it's apparently possible to have planetary bodies with 10x the density, perhaps in the Kerbal universe the strong nuclear force is different, and fusion is therefore possible at much smaller masses.

Or something. 

[GDJ]

Just now, Snark said:

Well, yeah, but on the other hand there's definitely something screwy going on with basic matter physics in KSP, given that the planets are 10x as dense as IRL.  So, given that it's apparently possible to have planetary bodies with 10x the density, perhaps in the Kerbal universe the strong nuclear force is different, and fusion is therefore possible at much smaller masses.

Or something. 

Agreed, but the luminosity and thermal output of Kerbol is off as well. For it to be a yellow dwarf (as depicted in the game) the Kerbol’s luminosity would be 56.7 yottawatts, but according to Kerbin and how much it receives, it's alot closer to 3 yottawatts, which puts it as a red dwarf. So.. eventho' the Kerbol system is a scaled down version of ours, the distance between Kerbin and Kerbol would have to be much greater, based on the proper luminosity of a yellow dwarf of it's size, temperature, and mass.

So, either Squad tweaks the game for proper scale......or we all just agree it's a game and leave the discussion alone and moot. I personally don't have any issues on the way the Kerbol system is the way it is right now, and I enjoy the game as is.

But Kerbol is seriously out-of-whack for normal physics to apply properly.

[CobraA1]

As I recall, the reason for Kerbin being so small was for gameplay: It's a lot easier to design rockets for a small planet than a large one.

As far as Kerbol goes - that was likely just a subjective "this looks okay" decision.

Being that Kerbol's size is mostly aesthetic, I'm not sure it would be worth spending time fixing.

[regex]

7 minutes ago, CobraA1 said:

Being that Kerbol's size is mostly aesthetic, I'm not sure it would be worth spending time fixing.

But I'm asking about aesthetics here; do you find it, the Sun, too big to look at in relation to the rest of the system?  Resizing it is trivial so long as the math is done correctly to keep the rest of the system in order.

Edited March 7, 2016 by regex

[Whirligig Girl]

 

1 hour ago, regex said:

Well, think about it.  The entire solar system in KSP is scaled down with Sol system analogues: An inner rocky planet, a planet relatively the same size as the habitable one with a thick atmosphere, a habitable planet, an arid planet with a thin atmosphere, a dwarf planet, a gas giant, an ice planet that was supposed to be the moon of a second gas giant...  It then follows, given the color of Kerbol (the Sun), that it be a G-class star.  The problem is that Kerbol is too big and not dense enough to be a G-class to-scale analogue.  Reducing the diameter while keeping the mass the same would help solve the density problem and bring its scale back in line with the majority of the rest of the solar system while retaining the exact same orbital parameters within the rest of the solar system (no gameplay changes).

Yeah, actually. That's a really good important point. In order to make Mun not too big in the sky compared to the Sun, you could swap the orbits of Mun and Minmus. Added to my list of changes for Revamped Stock System.

[Superfluous J]

7 hours ago, Capac Amaru said:

Oh damn, my bad, I thought we were talking about Kerbin lol.

It's not your fault. I get similarly confused when people use "Kerbol" as the name of the Sun.

4 hours ago, regex said:

But I'm asking about aesthetics here; do you find it, the Sun, too big to look at in relation to the rest of the system?

No. It's the sun. It should be big and bright. Bigger than our actual Sun because we misrepresent it in our minds as far bigger than it really is.

[regex]

2 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

It's not your fault. I get similarly confused when people use "Kerbol" as the name of the Sun.

According to the wiki it's the unofficial playerbase name for "The Sun".  vOv

3 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

No. It's the sun. It should be big and bright. Bigger than our actual Sun because we misrepresent it in our minds as far bigger than it really is.

Yeah, you already said that.  Thanks again.

Obama.

[Superfluous J]

8 minutes ago, regex said:

Yeah, you already said that.  Thanks again.

I thought this was the thread where we say the same thing over and over. Sorry.

[regex]

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

I thought this was the thread where we say the same thing over and over. Sorry.

That's pretty much every thread on these forums once you've been here six months.

[Megadeath]

8 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

 

Yeah, actually. That's a really good important point. In order to make Mun not too big in the sky compared to the Sun, you could swap the orbits of Mun and Minmus. Added to my list of changes for Revamped Stock System.

I never considered it before, but I REALLY like this idea. In a lot of way, Minmus seems like the "easy" moon, and "mun" as a scale stand in for ours. Placing it closer, while a fairly negligible difference in dV, seems in keeping with that. I'm not crash hot on physics, astronomy etc, but it doesn't immediately seem to me like it'd be a physical impossibility for it to form that way? (I might not be good with such things, but I like my game to make some sorta sense to the smart people.:P)

On topic, I personally think it works at the size it is for aesthetic purposes. I haven't been near it much though, and I guess that's when it matters most. I thought I read a while back that once you get closer than a certain distance it doesn't scale anymore, or something like that? Is that out of date/plain wrong, 'cause it seems that'd be factor? I do wish there was more to the lighting effects like some people have mentioned e.g. dimmer at outer planets, more intense close in as with planetshine, etc.

[Enceos]

I find it amusing how @regex tries to change KSP for everyone according to his own feeling and perceptions. A true evangelist of realism

But bigger means prettier. Remember those scaled sunsets and full moons in movies. Cinematographists do this because it makes the picture better. The current size of the sun in KSP feels just right in all the KSP cinematics I've seen so far. Take a look at this picture from ISS:

The sun with its corona looks probably even bigger in reality than in KSP.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Enceos

[Red Iron Crown]

2 hours ago, Enceos said:

I find it amusing how @regex tries to change KSP for everyone according to his own feeling and perceptions. A true evangelist of realism

Pretty much everyone does that, we all have our own interpretations of what KSP should be.

[John FX]

8 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Pretty much everyone does that, we all have our own interpretations of what KSP should be.

And that is why I mod.

Back on topic, I`m starting RSS and compared to the kerbin system the sun seems... small.