[1.12.X] Kerbal Planetary Base Systems v1.6.15 [28. April 2022]

[Rafael acevedo]

Nils

i know that you updated for 1.2.1 however it is still listed on space dock as 1.2 outdated mod which is probably why it is not being recognized by ckan ( not a major issue since I can do manual installs, but it is a nice to have)

Edited November 6, 2016 by Rafael acevedo

[Nils277]

16 hours ago, Rafael acevedo said:

Nils

i know that you updated for 1.2.1 however it is still listed on space dock as 1.2 outdated mod which is probably why it is not being recognized by ckan ( not a major issue since I can do manual installs, but it is a nice to have)

Oh, thanks for the reminder. The patch was uploaded before 1.2.1 was available on Spacedock. Forgot to look if 1.2.1 is listed there now. Will take care of that.

[SpaceMouse]

@Nils277 I thought i should mention how awesome this mod is. Particulary like the IVA's. Was the 3 way adapter meant to double as a good way to simulate gravity when taking bases to a planet? Because it does.

[Bit Fiddler]

if this has been answered already I am sorry but the 44 pages was a bit daunting to go back and read through. 

 

any way the question is this.  with using your "active" parts like the carbon scrubber etc.  do you have numbers readily available that tell me things for TAC:

 

For X kerbals I will need Y parts to sustain...

For X Kerbals I will need to add Y units of water or Z units of Hydrogen etc. per day to keep it stable...

 

al of this is ignoring food obviously, as there is no way for your mod to produce food.  but I would just like to know if I am making a station that I want to be as efficient as possible I will want to purify waste water, scrub the CO₂, etc.  it looks like I have 2 options for a sustained system; I will need to add water, and/or add hydrogen. the issue comes down to the mass of the payload, and thus the ΔV needed to resupply the station.  Do you, or anybody else for that matter, have these numbers available?  or will I need to go do all the math on my own?

 

also on a side note your mod duplicates some of the efforts of the Universal Storage mod.  and while I absolutely agree with this as more options is always better, and I in fact use both mods, there is an issue...  The tech nodes you use to unlock your scrubber etc. are different than the nodes Universal Storage uses.  would it be possible to get with the devs of that mod and come to an agreement so that your water purifier etc. come into play at the same time as theirs?

Edited November 7, 2016 by Bit Fiddler

[Nils277]

44 minutes ago, Bit Fiddler said:

if this has been answered already I am sorry but the 44 pages was a bit daunting to go back and read through. 

 

any way the question is this.  with using your "active" parts like the carbon scrubber etc.  do you have numbers readily available that tell me things for TAC:

 

For X kerbals I will need Y parts to sustain...

For X Kerbals I will need to add Y units of water or Z units of Hydrogen etc. per day to keep it stable...

 

al of this is ignoring food obviously, as there is no way for your mod to produce food.  but I would just like to know if I am making a station that I want to be as efficient as possible I will want to purify waste water, scrub the CO₂, etc.  it looks like I have 2 options for a sustained system; I will need to add water, and/or add hydrogen. the issue comes down to the mass of the payload, and thus the ΔV needed to resupply the station.  Do you, or anybody else for that matter, have these numbers available?  or will I need to go do all the math on my own?

 

also on a side note your mod duplicates some of the efforts of the Universal Storage mod.  and while I absolutely agree with this as more options is always better, and I in fact use both mods, there is an issue...  The tech nodes you use to unlock your scrubber etc. are different than the nodes Universal Storage uses.  would it be possible to get with the devs of that mod and come to an agreement so that your water purifier etc. come into play at the same time as theirs?

I have calculated the numbers some time ago. I thought that one converter was meant for a specific number of Kerbals. I don't have the numbers in my head right now, but I will try to find the excel file for them. 

You are wrong about the food though. The greenhouse and the container greenhouse are meant to produce food. They just need the Algae Farm for a substrate. And the Algae Farm needs Ore in return. Which might be a bit too heavy to lift into orbit though. 

I will try to contact the devs of Universal Storage to see the if we can agree on a common set of TT nodes. (Would also have to be for the CTT). There is a stock bug connected to this though. When an already unlocked part is moved by an update into a locked node, it is duplicated in the TT and remains there two times. One time locked and one time unlocked. I also had one report of a part duplicating in the TT with every load of the save. 

Unless this is really really urgent i'd like to postpone this tweak until this bug is fixed to prevent potential confusion and long term bugs i can't forsee yet. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Nils277

[Bit Fiddler]

not a big deal..

 

and I guess I did not realize you had a greenhouse...  I was just looking at the parts that snap into the 2.5m rack things...  will have to go check this out for the station I am making.  I was planning to use BioMass if they ever get it finished.  but may just use this mod, or one of the others out there making food and fuel.  as I would really like the station to be a closed system if possible.  and as for ore; I can always grab me an asteroid and attach it to the station for a source of ore in orbit.

 

I am working on a spread sheet now, but if you can find yours that would be great as I will probably overlook something any way.

 

oh and as a side note; a request.  in the past I used Infernal robotics to make a system for a resupply setup.  but I was just wondering if you could make a similar thing just as part of your mod.  Basically how it worked was there was a "service bay" with doors that could open.  inside was a rotating carousel that would hold the TAC hexcans on docking ports, with a bit of spare space around them for additional parts. the hex cans then had a docking port, a small monoprop tank, some RCS, a probe core, and a mono prop engine attached. the idea was that you could launch this hexcan "probe" very cheaply into orbit and then fly it up and dock it on an empty port on that carosel.  then when empty undock it and use the engines to deorbit the can.  either with a chute to recover it, or as a destructive deorbit. 

 

any way just wondering if you would be interested in making this as a premade system for your mod?  the rotating bit could be avoided by making the "canister rack" have ports around it that are all accessible from the outside.  thus no rotational parts would be needed, just doors that could open up to reveal the socket for the probe to attach to.

 

 

Ok. assuming I have not missed something in the process.  my prelim math looks like you set it up for 1 of your devices will support 5-9 kerbals depending on the part.  however it does seem the parts are not all tuned to support the same number of kerbals.  I have not taken green houses into account, so this variance may be to support the greenhouse's needs. and the final number may be 5 when used this way.

 

Oh and as for the edit for the tech nodes.  if you come to a consensus with the Universal Storage team, you/they could just make the new parts, and then remove all the old ones from the VAB/SPH list.  however if they are left the game (but inaccessible for new construction) for now,  no existing ships will be broken but all new ships will be made using the new parts.  then after some time, they can be removed from the mod altogether, and just make an additional "legacy" part pack.  thus if anybody still needs those for very old save games they can still get them.  at least I think it works this way.  it seems I have seen other mods do this when they make drastic changes like this to their mod.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Bit Fiddler

[Nils277]

1 hour ago, Bit Fiddler said:

not a big deal..

 

and I guess I did not realize you had a greenhouse...  I was just looking at the parts that snap into the 2.5m rack things...  will have to go check this out for the station I am making.  I was planning to use BioMass if they ever get it finished.  but may just use this mod, or one of the others out there making food and fuel.  as I would really like the station to be a closed system if possible.  and as for ore; I can always grab me an asteroid and attach it to the station for a source of ore in orbit.

 

I am working on a spread sheet now, but if you can find yours that would be great as I will probably overlook something any way.

 

oh and as a side note; a request.  in the past I used Infernal robotics to make a system for a resupply setup.  but I was just wondering if you could make a similar thing just as part of your mod.  Basically how it worked was there was a "service bay" with doors that could open.  inside was a rotating carousel that would hold the TAC hexcans on docking ports, with a bit of spare space around them for additional parts. the hex cans then had a docking port, a small monoprop tank, some RCS, a probe core, and a mono prop engine attached. the idea was that you could launch this hexcan "probe" very cheaply into orbit and then fly it up and dock it on an empty port on that carosel.  then when empty undock it and use the engines to deorbit the can.  either with a chute to recover it, or as a destructive deorbit. 

 

any way just wondering if you would be interested in making this as a premade system for your mod?  the rotating bit could be avoided by making the "canister rack" have ports around it that are all accessible from the outside.  thus no rotational parts would be needed, just doors that could open up to reveal the socket for the probe to attach to.

 

 

Ok. assuming I have not missed something in the process.  my prelim math looks like you set it up for 1 of your devices will support 5-9 kerbals depending on the part.  however it does seem the parts are not all tuned to support the same number of kerbals.  I have not taken green houses into account, so this variance may be to support the greenhouse's needs. and the final number may be 5 when used this way.

 

Oh and as for the edit for the tech nodes.  if you come to a consensus with the Universal Storage team, you/they could just make the new parts, and then remove all the old ones from the VAB/SPH list.  however if they are left the game (but inaccessible for new construction) for now,  no existing ships will be broken but all new ships will be made using the new parts.  then after some time, they can be removed from the mod altogether, and just make an additional "legacy" part pack.  thus if anybody still needs those for very old save games they can still get them.  at least I think it works this way.  it seems I have seen other mods do this when they make drastic changes like this to their mod.

You just gave me a very interesting idea that i have to try out. Docking mechanism for the storage rags and the container. This would be a great way for refilling. 

To be honest, i don't really like to make the current container deprecated and replace them. It is nearly impossible to remove the deprecated parts from all filters in the editor. Will try to find a good way in between though. Well see what comes up. 

[Bit Fiddler]

yes that would help if I could use KAS to attach the container to the rack.  however the "Probe" idea makes it much cheaper in delta v etc. which all comes down to money I guess.  I would make the containers support KAS for attaching in "flight" for sure however, and then I could do a "shuttle mission" with new container wedges.  it will cost more as I must expend fuel for the deltaV of the entire shuttle craft, but at least resupply would be possible.  I can always make the probes things just go attach to docking ports as I have always done in the past if you are not interested in this idea.  but for sure do the KAS support on your containers.

 

my only reason for the request was that Infernal robotics is not yet updated, so I am having a hard time with my nice, sleek, self contained, aerodynamic (for launch), re-supply canister carousel.  but I can work around this.

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Bit Fiddler

[Nils277]

1 hour ago, Bit Fiddler said:

yes that would help if I could use KAS to attach the container to the rack.  however the "Probe" idea makes it much cheaper in delta v etc. which all comes down to money I guess.  I would make the containers support KAS for attaching in "flight" for sure however, and then I could do a "shuttle mission" with new container wedges.  it will cost more as I must expend fuel for the deltaV of the entire shuttle craft, but at least resupply would be possible.  I can always make the probes things just go attach to docking ports as I have always done in the past if you are not interested in this idea.  but for sure do the KAS support on your containers.

 

my only reason for the request was that Infernal robotics is not yet updated, so I am having a hard time with my nice, sleek, self contained, aerodynamic (for launch), re-supply canister carousel.  but I can work around this.

I played around with a functionality similar to IR a bit a long time ago and also looked at IR as a reference but got really stuck at one point and decided that it is not worth the effort. There are some builds for 1.21 at the thread of IR though: 

This is code only though. I think one or two pages back is a download for the other parts.

You can also create a logistics drone with a grappling hook to move around the container to their destination. I build a whole space-station once with this technique. It was only a bit fiddly to maneuver  

Edited November 7, 2016 by Nils277

[Bit Fiddler]

so in the case of this mod you would not use KAS as a dependency, but rather just make your containers have a built in "docking port".  then if a player wishes to use KAS they make the drone put a magnet or what ever on it and fly the container over and the built in "docking port" will grab it and snap them together?  but in the long run the Kerbal never can put the container on their back like other KAS items, they must use a vehicle of some sort to actually move them?

 

 

also another observation is your units/volume seem to be quite a bit less than the containers supplied with TAC-LS.  was this intentional due to some "reality check"?   as in "the TAC-LS containers are bigger on the inside than the outside" sort of thing?

 

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Bit Fiddler

[Nils277]

15 hours ago, Bit Fiddler said:

so in the case of this mod you would not use KAS as a dependency, but rather just make your containers have a built in "docking port".  then if a player wishes to use KAS they make the drone put a magnet or what ever on it and fly the container over and the built in "docking port" will grab it and snap them together?  but in the long run the Kerbal never can put the container on their back like other KAS items, they must use a vehicle of some sort to actually move them?

also another observation is your units/volume seem to be quite a bit less than the containers supplied with TAC-LS.  was this intentional due to some "reality check"?   as in "the TAC-LS containers are bigger on the inside than the outside" sort of thing?

I tried out the idea to add docking ports to each container and to the container racks. But this seems to not be a really good idea. I'd have to add e.g. 6 docking ports to the big rack. The problem is, that each docking port adds three options to the right click menu: Undock, Crossfeed and Control from here. Unfotunately that looks all the same. This really clutters the right click menu and makes it confusing. So i have to drop that idea for the time being.

Adding the option for a kerbal to put a small container in his/her back sounds good. Will add that function for the next update. 

[Neroziat]

dunno why but the mod dosent exist in ckan, i can still see it on spacedock though

[Bit Fiddler]

with KIS/KAS you can also define the nodes as "snap points".  I do not know how it is done I have never looked at it, but it makes it so the parts will only snap in to the racks, and only in the correct position/orientation.  i do not think it prevents other placement however, that just controls the "snapping", so for instance you could still just have your Kerbal slap a container on the side of your station anywhere, and not use the racks at all.  At least this is how i think it works...  you will have to explore these options.  there are other mods out there doing similar things so there are examples to look at, and people to ask.

[tsaven]

Quick question, and I'm sorry if it's been answered already.  When I first started up KPBS with 1.2.0, it prompted me to run your Save Converter tool.  However, I hadn't loaded my 1.1.3 saves into 1.2.0 yet, so I didn't run it. 

Now that I'm ready to load my saves in, is there a way I can force the game ask if I want to run the converter tool again?

[Nils277]

17 hours ago, Neroziat said:

dunno why but the mod dosent exist in ckan, i can still see it on spacedock though

The mod has a .ckan file on the CKAN-meta repository and therefore should be available via CKAN. Please contact the developers of CKAN to refresh or fix this, i can't do much about that. 

6 hours ago, tsaven said:

Quick question, and I'm sorry if it's been answered already.  When I first started up KPBS with 1.2.0, it prompted me to run your Save Converter tool.  However, I hadn't loaded my 1.1.3 saves into 1.2.0 yet, so I didn't run it. 

Now that I'm ready to load my saves in, is there a way I can force the game ask if I want to run the converter tool again?

The converter will run automatically. This means, as soon as you load older saves, it will convert them. The promt at the beginning was only an option for you to make an automatic backup of your saves. You can do that manually or remove the following file: "GameData/PlanetaryBaseInc/KPBS.backup". When this file is removed, the game will ask you again to make a backup at the next start.

17 hours ago, Bit Fiddler said:

with KIS/KAS you can also define the nodes as "snap points".  I do not know how it is done I have never looked at it, but it makes it so the parts will only snap in to the racks, and only in the correct position/orientation.  i do not think it prevents other placement however, that just controls the "snapping", so for instance you could still just have your Kerbal slap a container on the side of your station anywhere, and not use the racks at all.  At least this is how i think it works...  you will have to explore these options.  there are other mods out there doing similar things so there are examples to look at, and people to ask.

You can already attach parts via their stack nodes with KIS and have not heard of this option yet. Do you have names of some of the mods that do support that? It would be really time-consuming and tedious to rifle through all the mods around and see if they have special support for KIS and use these snap points.

[Nils277]

KPBS 1.3.4 is here!!

Changelog:

Quote

1.3.4

General:

• Updated CCK

New Parts:

• Added smaller version of the fuel tank

Mod Support:

• Updated support for USI-LS
• Added two dedicaded recycler for USI-LS
• Added ability for kerbals to carry the small container on their back (KIS)

Download:

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by Nils277

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, Nils277 said:

You can already attach parts via their stack nodes with KIS and have not heard of this option yet. Do you have names of some of the mods that do support that? It would be really time-consuming and tedious to rifle through all the mods around and see if they have special support for KIS and use these snap points.

Probably the best example is KIS itself: The container and the container mount.  The containers will snap into the mounts, and you can remove/attach them to the mounts with any Kerbal, without a tool.

[Nils277]

1 hour ago, DStaal said:

Probably the best example is KIS itself: The container and the container mount.  The containers will snap into the mounts, and you can remove/attach them to the mounts with any Kerbal, without a tool.

You are right. Will take a look at them and add them to the mod.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Nils277

[idamoofus]

Looks like the textures on the new small tank aren't aligned.

[TheRagingIrishman]

@ibanix, @DStaal and @tsaven how's the UKS patch going? I would love to use KPBS but I don't really want to download it until the integration is done.

Edited November 9, 2016 by TheRagingIrishman

[DStaal]

38 minutes ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

@ibanix, @DStaal and @tsaven how's the UKS patch going? I would love to use KPBS but I don't really want to download it until the integration is done.

Stalled.  USI is in a bit of a flux so we don't want to do to much until it settles down.  (And I can't help anymore, as my computer that can't run the latest version of KSP, and therefore can't run the new MKS.)

There is no particular conflict between MKS and KPBS however. It just doesn't provide many of the base-supporting and resource conversion paths that MKS introduces. KPBS does support USI-LS, and for a basic science or habitation base you will have no issues.  What you won't be able to do is build a medical or industrial base with KPBS parts.

[TheRagingIrishman]

1 minute ago, DStaal said:

Stalled.  USI is in a bit of a flux so we don't want to do to much until it settles down.  (And I can't help anymore, as my computer that can't run the latest version of KSP, and therefore can't run the new MKS.)

There is no particular conflict between MKS and KPBS however. It just doesn't provide many of the base-supporting and resource conversion paths that MKS introduces. KPBS does support USI-LS, and for a basic science or habitation base you will have no issues.  What you won't be able to do is build a medical or industrial base with KPBS parts.

 

@ibanix @tsaven I'd be happy to help. I've been following the USI suite very closely these past few months (I made ctt.cfgs for 1/2 the mods and updated the website) so I know a lot about how the various modules interact.

[Nils277]

8 hours ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

@ibanix @tsaven I'd be happy to help. I've been following the USI suite very closely these past few months (I made ctt.cfgs for 1/2 the mods and updated the website) so I know a lot about how the various modules interact.

That sounds good. Do you have any estimation on when the changes for MKS settle? 

9 hours ago, MrLake said:

Looks like the textures on the new small tank aren't aligned.

Oh, ups, used another tool to convert the textures to .dds other than DDS4KSP, because it does not work for me anymore and forgot that the texture is upside down now. Will fix this for the next release.
 

[TheRagingIrishman]

Just now, Nils277 said:

That sounds good. Do you have any estimation on when the changes for MKS settle?

 

Most main mechanics are done. If you look at the issue trackers on his GitHub pages, there's nothing left about adding new mechanics, only making things consistent throughout. RD will probably release something in the next week fixing the past 3 weeks(ish) of problems and after that, not much will change drastically.

TL;DR-->~1 week

[DStaal]

Though I can't be much direct help, I offer what help I can give.  If nothing else, I still have the GitHub and GitLab repos with configs for storage, EL, and a height adapter available, which I can add control of.  (Or you can fork, of course.)

Some of those configs would need to be modified slightly I know - storage currently adds Planetary storage to the large storage containers, when MKS has moved it to a logistics center, for instance.  It'll probably need to get moved to the Central Hub.