My laptop got wet

[Camacha]

On 16/03/2016 at 10:59 PM, GeneralVeers said:

From the fact that I've been using it for ten years since, with zero problems and zero data loss......

.....myth busted.

That is like saying your aunt smoked all her live and lived to be a 100, so smoking must not be bad. The point is that you simply do not know. It might fail the first time you try it, it might not fail at all. Yet having washed a thumb drive means you should consider everything on there moot. It is junk, even if it is functioning junk.

[GeneralVeers]

Yeah......bad example with the smoking. The problem being this. Okay, yes: she lived to be 100--but, how long would she have lived if she hadn't been puffing? That's the test, and it's a test we can't do, for obvious reasons.

With a flash drive, it's simpler and also verifiable. Does the flash drive work? Yes or no? If the flash drive continues to work for ten years after passing through the Dante-esque Hell For Naughty Computer Parts that is my washing machine, then the washing machine obviously didn't do any significant damage. Even if the flash drive does fail sometime later on, the washing machine cannot be considered a contributing cause to the failure, because there's no evidence that the washing machine was actually the cause.

For all I know, the interior of this Chuck Norris flash drive of mine is epoxy-sealed and waterproof. But the only way to know for sure would be to tear it open and take a look, which would render it non-functional, and I ain't gonna do that. Guess I'll never know.

[Camacha]

42 minutes ago, GeneralVeers said:

Yeah......bad example with the smoking. The problem being this. Okay, yes: she lived to be 100--but, how long would she have lived if she hadn't been puffing? That's the test, and it's a test we can't do, for obvious reasons.

With a flash drive, it's simpler and also verifiable. Does the flash drive work? Yes or no? If the flash drive continues to work for ten years after passing through the Dante-esque Hell For Naughty Computer Parts that is my washing machine, then the washing machine obviously didn't do any significant damage. Even if the flash drive does fail sometime later on, the washing machine cannot be considered a contributing cause to the failure, because there's no evidence that the washing machine was actually the cause.

For all I know, the interior of this Chuck Norris flash drive of mine is epoxy-sealed and waterproof. But the only way to know for sure would be to tear it open and take a look, which would render it non-functional, and I ain't gonna do that. Guess I'll never know.

You are still missing the point. You properly ascertain that a washing machine is a terrible environment for electronics, yet you fail to see the further implications. Any part that has been properly wet should be considered highly suspect and unreliable. Any part that has been in any corrosive kind of environment should be considered trash. If it still works and keeps working, wonderful. It is a bonus, but nothing more. If anything depends on it, do not use the part, unless you already ensured the safety of your data through other means (i.e. you have a proper backup, and use this thumb drive to store or transfer a third copy).

You got lucky. It does not detract from the fact that wet parts are, for all intents and purposes, trash.

[GeneralVeers]

2 hours ago, Camacha said:

You are still missing the point.

Of course I'm missing your point, because your point is malarkey.

You say a flash drive that has been through a washing machine should be considered unreliable. My flash drive has proven to be extremely reliable. 100% storage accuracy, zero errors, for ten years. You say I got lucky. Based on what? How many flash drives have you run through washing machines? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "zero". So your claim that I got lucky is also not based on any verifiable evidence.

The only objective test here is "does it work?" The flash drive works, therefore your point is, as I said, malarkey.

[Vanamonde]

Please do not get into an argument over the relative durability of flash drives. 

[Camacha]

On 22/03/2016 at 1:59 AM, GeneralVeers said:

Of course I'm missing your point, because your point is malarkey.

You say a flash drive that has been through a washing machine should be considered unreliable. My flash drive has proven to be extremely reliable. 100% storage accuracy, zero errors, for ten years. You say I got lucky. Based on what? How many flash drives have you run through washing machines? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "zero". So your claim that I got lucky is also not based on any verifiable evidence.

Do not get me wrong, I understand that your flash drive is working and has been working for a long time. But one should also understand that this is only one data point of many. Anyone reading this should not make the mistake that wet hardware can be trusted any further than you can throw it. That yours still works is great for you, but also pure chance, or luck. The confusion seems to be about the fact that when something is not reliable any more, it is not guaranteed to break. Statistics and probability only work on large numbers, not in a single case. A large portion of the hardware that gets wet does not fare so well. If people want to know why this happens, I suggest reading this page, especially the second reaction. It is a concise explanation why the damaging effects can be immediate, near future or far future.

If me being an IT professional knowing a little bit about keeping data safe is not enough, then at least my dealing with various bits and pieces of hardware that got wet and failed should count for something. If that still is not good enough, simply Google what stories people tell about washing their flash drives and other assorted electronics. It is an assortment of stories that resemble yours, with surviving flash drives and no problems at all, to people that lost important data on a now dead drive without any way of recovering it and anything in between. It is a lottery. With data, you do not want to play a lottery.

So, once more: is hardware that got properly wet going to break for sure? No. We cannot say this, as your flash drive has shown us. Is the hardware still reliable, and guaranteed to work to the point that a normal flash drive can be relied upon? That you can not. You can use it, but you should not depend on it.

[Stone Blue]

As someone who worked in a major manufacturing facility, making circuit boards, I can tell you that electronic components are not as vulnerable to damage spills or submersion. Partially completed circuit board assemblies, and even fully completed assemblies, actually get submerged in a slightly caustic "wash", and then thru a rinse cycle in a large, long, conveyer-type "washing machine"... Although there are now smaller, newer machines, for smaller batches of boards, that resemble dishwashers...

There ARE certain parts in a finished electronics device that wont handle getting wet, even in a non-powered state... But with advances in miniaturization of parts, those parts are becoming fewer and fewer...

If a device gets wet, the first thing to do is to remove the power source. HOPEFULLY, the device was not fully powered up...

Then as people have already stated, take it apart as much as possible without voiding warranties, or going beyond your abilities... Then LET IT AIR DRY... NO HAIR DRYERS or HEAT... let it dry at room temps, in a relatively low humidity...

Thats it... Either it will be good to go, or it wont... If not, its likely something shorted when it got wet... If it powers up after being closed up and powered, then you likely will not suffer further damage...

Granted, spilling coffee, or things that will be sticky, or contain acids (coffee, orange juice, etc...) MAY cause some corrosion, or may gum up moving parts or plugs, that could cause issues or failures, but thats where ADDING more clean water and alcohol, and GENTLY cleaning the area with a soft toothbrush, can actually HELP the situation...

But most electronic components now a days can easily survive submersion....

I have inherited quite a few old used PCs over the years... Most were EXTREMELY filthy, or coated with nicotene from smokers, and a few spills on keyboards/mice and front panels... I stripped EVERYTHING down, even power supplies, and WASHED everything in the kitchen sink with soapy water and a toothbrush... I have NEVER had a failure that can be attributed to washing boards and components....

Edited March 24, 2016 by Stone Blue

[razark]

1 hour ago, Stone Blue said:

As someone who worked in a major manufacturing facility, making circuit boards, I can tell you...

Well, there you go.  Ruining the thread with facts.

[Camacha]

1 hour ago, Stone Blue said:

Granted, spilling coffee, or things that will be sticky, or contain acids (coffee, orange juice, etc...) MAY cause some corrosion, or may gum up moving parts or plugs, that could cause issues or failures, but thats where ADDING more clean water and alcohol, and GENTLY cleaning the area with a soft toothbrush, can actually HELP the situation...

This is true. That is why it is not a bad idea to have distilled water around the house in a reasonable quantity. Rinsing whatever electronics as clean as possible, removing the corrosive or otherwise harmful elements goes a long way in preventing any short or long term damage.

Quote

Thats it... Either it will be good to go, or it wont... If not, its likely something shorted when it got wet... If it powers up after being closed up and powered, then you likely will not suffer further damage...

There is the lottery I was referring to. Having seen a couple of cases with vague problems down the line, suffering further damage is not out of the question, though you are likely right that damage immediately being evident is the most likely failure mode.

Did the manufacturing facility you worked for do any sort of test for long(er) term water damage? Maybe doing a bit of an experiment would be interesting.
 

26 minutes ago, razark said:

Well, there you go.  Ruining the thread with facts.

More facts.

 

[Stone Blue]

50 minutes ago, Camacha said:

This is true. That is why it is not a bad idea to have distilled water around the house in a reasonable quantity. Rinsing whatever electronics as clean as possible, removing the corrosive or otherwise harmful elements goes a long way in preventing any short or long term damage.

This is good advice.

Another, is to keep those desiccant packages that come in new items, storing them in a Ziploc. These work MUCH better than rice. Rice can actually leave starchy residue, as it absorbs moisture. It also doesnt work as well as silica.

53 minutes ago, Camacha said:

There is the lottery I was referring to. Having seen a couple of cases with vague problems down the line, suffering further damage is not out of the question, though you are likely right that damage immediately being evident is the most likely failure mode.

Well, yes, but my point was that once an item works fine right afterward, your odds of future failure due to this specific incident will probably be almost nil.

[Camacha]

6 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Well, yes, but my point was that once an item works fine right afterward, your odds of future failure due to this specific incident will probably be almost nil.

I guess we differ somewhat in opinion on that one, though I would welcome any sort of controlled experiment on the subject that proves me wrong. Any personal real world experiences, as well as those of other people, tend to be rather anecdotal. It is hard to discern whether a vague problem down the line actually was caused by the fluid, or coincidental.

[Stone Blue]

55 minutes ago, Camacha said:

Did the manufacturing facility you worked for do any sort of test for long(er) term water damage? Maybe doing a bit of an experiment would be interesting.

Yes. It was a division of a big,well known elctronics corporation. The company has aerospace, and industrial and commercial divisions. The division I worked for makes military mobile and personal communications systems. So, yes, they get tested for water-resistance, severe vibration effects, and even get baked in huge ovens at a couple hundred degrees for a couple days...

[Kinglet]

I expected a dirty tech joke.

[Spaceception]

Just now, Kinglet said:

I expected a dirty tech joke.

That would've broken the rules.

[Spaceception]

Uh, yeah, now my keyboard isn't working, so I have to use a virtual keyboard on my laptop, luckily, I'm getting a new one much sooner.

These are my 2 choices now;

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron-15-5555-A8-7410-2-5GHz/dp/B01ASQA9S8/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1459043538&sr=1-4&keywords=laptop&refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580791011%2Cp_n_condition-type%3A2224372011

And

http://www.amazon.com/IdeaPad-U430-59425735-Touchscreen-i5-4210U/dp/B00Q3KJVWE/ref=sr_1_7?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1458956554&sr=1-7&keywords=laptop&refinements=p_computer_cpu_speed-bin%3A2+to+2.9+GHz%2Cp_72%3A1248879011%2Cp_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A7817223011%2Cp_36%3A18000-30000

Which one would be better?

[p1t1o]

5 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Uh, yeah, now my keyboard isn't working, so I have to use a virtual keyboard on my laptop, luckily, I'm getting a new one much sooner.

These are my 2 choices now;

http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron-15-5555-A8-7410-2-5GHz/dp/B01ASQA9S8/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1459043538&sr=1-4&keywords=laptop&refinements=p_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A13580791011%2Cp_n_condition-type%3A2224372011

And

http://www.amazon.com/IdeaPad-U430-59425735-Touchscreen-i5-4210U/dp/B00Q3KJVWE/ref=sr_1_7?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1458956554&sr=1-7&keywords=laptop&refinements=p_computer_cpu_speed-bin%3A2+to+2.9+GHz%2Cp_72%3A1248879011%2Cp_n_feature_five_browse-bin%3A7817223011%2Cp_36%3A18000-30000

Which one would be better?

Get a desktop, they are harder to drop into water, but on the other hand, if you manage to, you need a *lot* more rice.

(Seriously though, I always recommend desktops to people. Unless you are like a travelling architect or something, the vast increase in value-for-performance that you get with a desktop almost always outweighs the ability to watch a movie on a train or whatever. Though I gather some awkward individuals like to use their computers differently to me, but thats just crazy)

[Spaceception]

Just now, p1t1o said:

Get a desktop, they are harder to drop into water, but on the other hand, if you manage to, you need a *lot* more rice.

(Seriously though, I always recommend desktops to people. Unless you are like a travelling architect or something, the vast increase in value-for-performance that you get with a desktop almost always outweighs the ability to watch a movie on a train or whatever. Though I gather some awkward individuals like to use their computers differently to me, but thats just crazy)

I can't, they're too expensive.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Spaceception

[p1t1o]

3 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

I can't, they're too expensive.

I'll admit I didn't look at the prices of those two laptops. 

I guess electronics are still cheaper across the pond! Those are pretty sweet deals actually.

My answer doesn't change much - go for the Intel $200-odd one. Not bad specs plus you can save up for a desktop 

Sorry, I know thats not helping much.

[Andem]

My computer's finally getting repaired tomorrow! Prepare your forums!

ALL YOU THREAD ARE BELONG TO US!!!