_Aramchek_ Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Corw said: The pre-release is not for players. If that were even remotely true then we would have stuck to the model Squad has been using for years, this is not "for squad", this is most definitely a pre-release for those who have steam...do not kid yourself. Also, if it were indeed about just getting the most play testers possible then everyone would have access, not just those on steam.....stop making excuses for a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Industries Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) @_Aramchek_ Except for how you ignored several already mentioned facts, and seem to think there is some legitimate reason for favoring steam users, everything you said is completely correct. /sarcasm Edited March 30, 2016 by KerbalSaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMS Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 So... Steam users get the miserable and unpredictable experience of a pre-release, persist with the crashes and restarts, do all the complaining and bug reporting... and I get to reap the potential benefits of this crowd-sourced refinement? Sounds great. Let me know when you're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi1960 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, Monkthespy said: Steam gets a certain amount of money after every purchase, I believe 30%. A company could just say "Buy it on our website!" and then just give you to the key for Steam. It's not fair to Steam. So, the company that writes the game gets a pittance, but the company that sells the games gets 70% Gee, what a very very sweet racket for Steam. Especially when you consider that Steam can just sit back and watch the money roll in! Somehow, I think your math is slightly... no, WAY off! There is no way the developers of a game would only accept 30% given that their share of the work is so high, if true, its a wonder that anyone actually deals with steam. I wouldn't... Edited March 30, 2016 by kiwi1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandaman Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I had decided not to post on this thread as all the irrational ranting winds me up, but here I am... A thought on bug reporting... Yes it's very true that the majority of pre release bug reports will be of relatively poor quality and limited help, but the big advantage of this pre release over the official 'experimental' phase is that a huge number of players will be trying lots of things in lots of ways on lots of different computer set ups. What this gives is a chance to spot some of the more obscure issues that just didn't get chance to show up before. Even those reports that may be of limited quality can still be helpful, they can give a heads-up to an issue that wasn't seen before, giving the chance to look deeper that would otherwise have been missed. Additionally, with the twitch streams and videos appearing, and the open nature of the 1.1 forum EVERYONE gets the change to chip in with observations, concerns and questions. Which also gives Squad a chance to review things, or address issues they hadn't thought of, before committing to full release. Remember 1.0? We had several hot fixes in a very short space of time because the release was rushed and things didn't get the chance to be spotted and/or fixed in time. This way the risk of that happening again are reduced (not guaranteed, it's the real world after all), but we all get a better product sooner than we would have otherwise. Yes I am disappointed that I won't get the chance to participate because I chose not to transfer my purchase to steam, or to buy again (which I seriously considered). But I do think that due to the reasons given by Squad (which I have no valid reason to doubt) they took the best course of action in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Industries Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Its 30% that steam gets, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi1960 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 1 minute ago, KerbalSaver said: Its 30% that steam gets, not the other way around. Even that would be too high! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorDavinci Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 There's another aspect of Steam that I don't think many people are aware of and that is the metrics involving system specs that Steam has Squad, and anyone else for that matter, can access these metrics and see what players are using to run KSP as in processor speeds, amount of RAM etc......Very valuable information for a software developer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-RanZ- Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 For those of you just joining this thread, let me sum it up with a single quote that covers about 75% of the posts in it: "whaaa whaaaa whaaaa, I don't like it" 1.1 is not released, it is in beta. You will get the updated when it is completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbart Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said: Especially when you consider that Steam can just sit back and watch the money roll in! Not entirely. Remember that there is a reason the public test-release is released only through Steam; they're the only ones (within Squad distribution network) who can handle the bandwidth that is associated with the rapid (daily?) updates during the test cycle. Contrary to popular belief (read: Tintin and the Cursed Mods) hosting server space and having ample amounts of bandwidth for downloads available is not free and the ability to have several hundred or maybe thousand users download a couple of gigabytes of content on a daily basis is nothing to frown upon. Steam would not be where they are now if they didn't put a tremendous amount of work in it. Conversely, they can charge what they do because, apparently, for Squad, it is worth it; otherwise Squad wouldn't be distributing the game through Steam. If the added value of Steam was minimal (“they can just sit back and watch the money roll in”) that wouldn't be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Aramchek_ Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 33 minutes ago, KerbalSaver said: @_Aramchek_ Except for how you ignored several already mentioned facts, and seem to think there is some legitimate reason for favoring steam users, everything you said is completely correct. /sarcasm I haven't ignored any facts, I discredit your assumptions. There is a difference, someone summed it up nicely on the last page...this is a pr move that has very little to do with bug testing or bandwidth issues. Edited March 30, 2016 by _Aramchek_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorDavinci Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, _Aramchek_ said: I haven't ignored any facts, I discredit your assumptions. There is a difference, someone summed it up nicely on the last page...this is a pr move that has nothing at all to do with bug testing or bandwidth issues. I beg to differ ... Steam has metrics that record into a database what system specs players are using to run KSP I discredit your assumptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Aramchek_ Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Just now, DoctorDavinci said: I beg to differ ... Steam has metrics that record into a database what system specs players are using to run KSP I discredit your assumptions Squad already has access to that data without the pre-release, so there is no reason to tie this release to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basto Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 To answer the question at hand... Your tears taste delicious. Can we be done now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorDavinci Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Really ... so the game is finished and no new testing is required for 1.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceplaneAddict Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I am a steam user, but to mitigate at least a little bit of hurt feels, I'd just like to point out Squad said there own servers wouldn't handle it well. I totally think they should have upgraded them in that case, but oh well. Aside from less lag, you're not issing much, except for game-induced crashes, ,ore crrashes, and billions of crash reports. I feel your pain, but..... Stay Determined... 30 minutes ago, TMS said: So... Steam users get the miserable and unpredictable experience of a pre-release, persist with the crashes and restarts, do all the complaining and bug reporting... and I get to reap the potential benefits of this crowd-sourced refinement? Sounds great. Let me know when you're done. You, sir, have a great attitude! Remind me to buy you a drink if I ever see you..... and congratulations on... Staying Determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Aramchek_ Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said: Really ... so the game is finished and no new testing is required for 1.1 Circular logic doesn't really work. The details of users pc's hasn't changed due to the pre-release, squad already knows what hardware people are running and has for a long time, having that data is not in any way directly tied in to bug testing 1.1. Edited March 30, 2016 by _Aramchek_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insert_name Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 wow only one warning from a moderator on a complaint thread this long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nli2work Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'll give Squad the benefit of the doubt. but nevertheless, it would have been better to just have waited for full release on steam and their own Store. If the "pre-release" has to be "pre-release" for more than a week or two, it should not have been a "pre-release" at all. And if it was a matter of week or two, there would have been no harm in waiting a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Industries Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 1 minute ago, _Aramchek_ said: Circular logic doesn't really work. The details of users pc's hasn't changed due to the pre-release, squad already knows what hardware people are running and has for a long time, having that data is not in any way directly tied in to bug testing 1.1. I see no reason for SQUAD to keep that data if a system is in place for them to access said data in real-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorDavinci Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) What he said ^^^^^ Let alone nobody playing KSP will upgrade their computers ever, right? Edited March 30, 2016 by DoctorDavinci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HebaruSan Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Matt77 said: I doubt we'll be asked to help beta test the next update, so thank you to all the complainers. That will probably be decided based on how much value SQUAD perceives the pre-release to have provided for them, not how much forum whining there was. If it improves product quality significantly (remembering again that at least one CTD-on-launch slipped through both QA and Experimentals), then they have every reason to repeat it, especially given that they can do it without hurting feelings next time by fixing the store patcher. That cost is already paid for this round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceplaneAddict Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 After more carefully reading this thread, I love this here post: 2 hours ago, Matt77 said: This thread is a good example of why devs don't include or even communicate with their users. SQUAD made mistakes in the past by releasing updates as fast as possible, and when the users found bugs, the users slammed SQUAD. SQUAD backed it down a bit, released updates more carefully, got slammed for the inevitable bugs, and released hotfixes. The users again, slammed SQUAD. SQUAD tried including the users in the testing process, but because this would cause massive amounts of bandwidth use and because nobody wants them wasting valuable dev time on a pointless updater, they outsourced it to Steam - a platform designed to provide a lot of bandwidth. Guess who's getting slammed? I doubt we'll be asked to help beta test the next update, so thank you to all the complainers. This here post is beautiful. Because of this pretty dang unreasonable complaing, we will probably see less and less of Squad asking for our help. There may never be a "next pre-release". I get the pain of KSPStore users, but it's not right to comlain even when Squad said they can't do it as of now. It's kinda awkward when I think about the thoughts raging about: KSPStore user: "Come on! Why am I not allowed to play a buggy, crash ridden version early!" Steam User: "Ok Squad, we;ll help you trst in exchange for bugs, crashes, and game breaking bugs." 6 minutes ago, nli2work said: for more than a week or two it IS 2 weeks. Just.... Stay Determined. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nli2work Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SpaceplaneAddict said: it IS 2 weeks. Just.... Stay Determined. . . In which case just wait a little longer for official 1.1 release instead of this Steam only BS that makes a ton of people feel like second class citizens. I already gave in actually. Purchased a 2nd copy on Steam. This "Pre-release" thing stinks too much of PR stunts big studios try to pull. and it isn't helping KSP sales on steam by the looks of it. Edited March 30, 2016 by nli2work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badsector Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, SpaceplaneAddict said: KSPStore user: "Come on! Why am I not allowed to play a buggy, crash ridden version early!" Steam User: "Ok Squad, we;ll help you trst in exchange for bugs, crashes, and game breaking bugs." Steam User: "Why mod X is not updated to 1.1" KSPStore user: "In the time of 1.1 development you had time to put out 1.05 but not for fix the patcher?" Edited March 30, 2016 by Badsector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts