Squad how do my tears taste?

[alacrity]

I understand the server issues, transfer bandwidth, website load, and we are still talking about prelease, and development is a long hard road at every iteration...

BUT every time I see a 1.1 screen shot from the steam users... I die a little inside.

Sincerely
Kerbal player, non steam users

ALacrity

[Anquietas314]

Try not to feel too bad about it; the pre-release is still quite buggy with several users not even being able to start the game.

See the bug tracker for details

Sincerely, a steam user.  

 

[Jett_Quasar]

Ièm right there with you.  I even checked my KSP store account to see if I could switch to Steam - no dice... 

JR

[Tourist]

Bah, I'm a steam user, but I'm not going to download the 1.1 until its done. It seems like to much work. Play, crash, report, play crash, report. Sounds too much like a job. I already have one of those.

[HebaruSan]

1 hour ago, armagheddonsgw said:

several users not even being able to start the game.

Yeah, but we get to send them info to hopefully help fix a crash, the most severe kind of bug. I think I'd be more upset if this was happening for the real release instead of the pre-release (which, n.b., it would have if they hadn't done the pre-release!). As long as it appears they're taking it seriously (it's the highest priority issue on the tracker) and there's something constructive I can do (@Squelch quickly asked for a list of info to aid the investigation), being locked out of it for a while isn't that bad. And I still have my older installs if I need them.

tl;dr: pre-release ftw

[hildegain]

1 hour ago, Tourist said:

Bah, I'm a steam user, but I'm not going to download the 1.1 until its done. It seems like to much work. Play, crash, report, play crash, report. Sounds too much like a job. I already have one of those.

Quite happy to do it myself but I'm yet to encounter a problem

Edited March 30, 2016 by hildegain

[Francois424]

Don't worry, it's going to be over soon enough.

Watching EJ_SA's stream right now, he had a 280 parts ships sitting by a 550 parts ships, and took a kerbal out for a ride.  It was a bit laggy, but smooth.

And that is while streaming on twitch with music playing in the background AND a Skype call going.

 

Soon... soon.

[steve_v]

Thanks SQUAD, for rewarding my faith in your little store.

Remind me not to buy games from indie stores again, clearly doing so makes me a second-rate customer.

1 hour ago, Tourist said:

Play, crash, report, play crash, report. Sounds too much like a job. I already have one of those.

I have a day job too, but testing and debugging new software is something I'll often find time for - if given the opportunity.

Shame, I would have liked to spin up the 1.1 prerelease (RC1?), even have a few different rigs/OSs to test on atm. Oh well.

Edited March 30, 2016 by steve_v
Too many 'i' in that word ;)

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Tourist said:

Play, crash, report, play crash, report.

Sounds like a typical session of testing a rocket to me, just the software crashing this time, and the report isn't accessed by hitting F3.

[Tourist]

2 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Sounds like a typical session of testing a rocket to me, just the software crashing this time, and the report isn't accessed by hitting F3.

Hmmm... it does at that. Although, technically I don't crash that much anymore. For me it is more, launch, transfer burn, time-warp, realize what I have forgotten, revert, launch, transfer burn, time-warp, realize what I have forgotten, revert....  

[mcirish3]

Ya not happy about the situation, which every one who was paying attention already knows.  Ya I die a little inside every time a 1.1 screen shot. Even though II could transfer to steam I really don't want to.   It's fine right now as I see the bug reports I would not want to play the game that buggy.  BUT I still think there will come a point when most or even all the major bugs will be fixed and the store users still won't have the game becuase the decision to release has not been made yet.  At that time and for however long that time lasts, man will the Suckmeter be tapped out.  If someone says the wrong thing, at that time...

[steve_v]

Thing is, I've been waiting for 1.1 for quite some time already, a couple of weeks more isn't that big a deal.
What annoys me is that I'm getting second-rate service for buying the game direct from SQUAD.

1. Broken updater, causing wasted bandwidth on both ends. Appears no motivation to fix.
2. Secret patch, compounded by 1, = more wasted time and bandwidth.
3. Generally slow downloads, this is actually okay by me - except when exacerbated by 1 & 2.
4. Excluded from "opt-in" pre-release testing, ostensibly because CBF fixing 1.
 

----

Ooh look, a Linux native code crash, and me with debugging experience and several Linux boxen to test on... Shame that.

Edited March 30, 2016 by steve_v

[AlamoVampire]

I see a lot of people complaining that they feel jilted by the fact steam users got the prerelease whilst squad store users did not. You guys need to understand that Squad is not a dedicated design studio for games. They are first an advertising company. As such they do not have the dedicated resources something like this REQUIRE. Steam does. They made a tactical choice in using Steam for this and, guess what? It was the RIGHT ONE. Period. 

[Hary R]

I guess it does hurt but we have been through this already, we know why it was done like that, don't pure salt into the wound it's not worth it.

[JedTech]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

Thanks SQUAD, for rewarding my faith in your little store.

Remind me not to buy games from indie stores again, clearly doing so makes me a second-rate customer.

^This. I felt like buying straight from Squads store was the best way to support Squad & KSP. But maybe direct purchases from their store isn't beneficial to them? From now on when a newbie comes to the forum and asks where to buy KSP, the resounding answer from everyone will be:  "Buy it on Steam!!!!"

Edited March 30, 2016 by JedTech

[jwenting]

And all this idiocy shows why it's a bad idea to put prereleases on Steam. The fools thinking they're getting the next version earlier than others for bragging rights will be all over it, and then complain about having bugs...

Far better to NOT have prereleases, except to vetted testers under a strict NDA, and to above all NEVER announce new and upcoming features and versions until they are already released.

And oh, if you like the game so much you're willing to put in the time to test if for free, you also like it enough to buy a second copy on Steam if you now have it through the KSP store, likely at a far lower price because you bought it years before release when the early access price was half what the release price is.

[steve_v]

25 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

they do not have the dedicated resources something like this REQUIRE. Steam does.

Well, give me a steam key then.
Admit your store is excrementse, and move everyone over to steam if it's so much better.
As it stands, I'd have to buy the game again to get what steam customers get for free... steam users even get decent speeds & updates to boot.
I wouldn't actually mind buying the game again mind you, but look - I'd have to pay twice as much as well - I effectively have to triple my original purchase to get decent customer service.

All because ("distributing multiple ~1GB builds" being the stated hurdle) nobody can be arsed fixing the updater, which has been acknowledged as completely broken for something like a year now.

And here I was thinking exactly this:

10 minutes ago, JedTech said:

I felt like buying straight from Squads store was the best way to support Squad & KSP.

---

1 minute ago, jwenting said:

And oh, if you like the game so much you're willing to put in the time to test if for free, you also like it enough to buy a second copy on Steam

Indeed, but do you really think being left without an updater for a year and being shut out of the pre-release makes me want to give SQUAD more money?
I put in testing time for free on several projects, if I also had to pay double the going rate for the privilege I simply wouldn't bother.

[Columbia]

4 minutes ago, jwenting said:

And all this idiocy shows why it's a bad idea to put prereleases on Steam. The fools thinking they're getting the next version earlier than others for bragging rights will be all over it, and then complain about having bugs...

Far better to NOT have prereleases, except to vetted testers under a strict NDA, and to above all NEVER announce new and upcoming features and versions until they are already released.

And oh, if you like the game so much you're willing to put in the time to test if for free, you also like it enough to buy a second copy on Steam if you now have it through the KSP store, likely at a far lower price because you bought it years before release when the early access price was half what the release price is.

This is a little harsh, but good point.

I still don't see why people think that only allowing Steam users to access experimentals, which is full of bugs and is nowhere near a full release's quality because they had no choice but to do so because of limitations is something that's a privilege at all. 

Okay, maybe you really want to help Squad out in their Easter Bug Hunt™ but can't because of KSP Store issues. Well, what can Squad do? Not have a pre-release at all and have a 1.1 release that has bugs that are very specific yet game-breaking? And then people go and proceed to complain that Squad rushed it, perhaps? 

There's nothing wrong with feeling bad because of not being able to participate. But you have to understand that Squad did what is best for the game and community, and rest assured they tried their best to include as much people but were stopped by what they can do.

[Stoney3K]

I don't see why existing users who purchased the game through the Squad store can't get a key to register their existing copy of the game with Steam, though. All people who already purchased KSP before it got on Steam should be entitled to a key which allows them to download the game through Steam if they want to. It's a bit ridiculous that Squad wants them to buy another copy just to have access to the game on Steam.

Is that *really* a technical matter or an issue of negotiating proper distribution rights for the profit margin of Steam?

[Superfluous J]

1 minute ago, Stoney3K said:

I don't see why existing users who purchased the game through the Squad store can't get a key to register their existing copy of the game with Steam, though. All people who already purchased KSP before it got on Steam should be entitled to a key which allows them to download the game through Steam if they want to. It's a bit ridiculous that Squad wants them to buy another copy just to have access to the game on Steam.

Is that *really* a technical matter or an issue of negotiating proper distribution rights for the profit margin of Steam?

I'm sure it's #2 there. There are no technical reasons. I think it's totally because Steam won't give Squad a discount on Steam keys.

Which I also understand. Why give away a whole bunch of bandwidth? They're not a charity.

Let me make this clear: I totally understand why Squad is doing this and also that there is no other viable choice at this time. I still feel slighted and no argument other than "here's your Steam Key" will change my mind. I don't expect it. I'm not demanding it. I'm not stomping around and taking my toys and going home or anything like that. I just feel slighted.

[steve_v]

1 minute ago, Columbia said:

Well, what can Squad do?

Off the top of my head, not leave important features such as a patching system (or a save updater for that matter) broken or missing for so long that you have to upset a significant number of customers, because those features are not there when you actually need them.

[Columbia]

Just now, steve_v said:

Off the top of my head, not leave important features such as a patching system (or a save updater for that matter) broken or missing for so long that you have to upset a significant number of customers, because those features are not there when you actually need them.

Well, fine, those kinds of things are things that need addressing, and are agreeably annoying. I agree with you on that.

But on the spectrum of the Opt-in Prerelease, there's really not much Squad can do about that (other than just cancel the whole thing and leave tons of Steam users raging.)

[steve_v]

Just now, Columbia said:

But on the spectrum of the Opt-in Prerelease, there's really not much Squad can do about that

Now there isn't, this particular horse has already bolted. But please, stop leaving the stable door open.
SQUAD set themselves up for this, and get no sympathy from me. Sharpen those pitchforks folks.

3 minutes ago, Columbia said:

(other than just cancel the whole thing and leave tons of Steam users raging.)

Or give store purchasers a steam key. Anyone have a valid technical reason for this "Only if purchased before x/y/z date" BS?

[pizzaoverhead]

It's odd that Squad didn't give out Steam keys to people who supported them on their journey to Steam in the first place. Factorio just reached Steam last week for instance. Handing out keys to their existing userbase was the first thing they did.

According to threads around the internet, developers can ask Steam to generate keys at no cost.

Edited March 30, 2016 by pizzaoverhead
Added link.

[steve_v]

7 minutes ago, pizzaoverhead said:

It's odd that Squad didn't give out Steam keys to people who supported them on their journey to Steam in the first place.

Well, they did - but only to those who bought it prior to release on steam. I'm SOL because I bought a copy ~1 month too late... with no warning that I would be shafted later on for this apparent blunder.

Edited March 30, 2016 by steve_v