[ASC-III] Air Superiority Challenge - King of the Hill (BDArmory 4v4 AI Duels: WW1 Theme) - Now Concluded!

[boomchacle]

1 minute ago, drtricky said:

...I don't think any decent computer could handle such a craft.

lol It looks like it has few parts right? will I clipped so many performance enhancing parts inside the main body so it would act like a sythe in Planetside 2

1 minute ago, Dman979 said:

ummm, what is it?

A sythe from the game Planetside 2. Just search Planetside 2 sythe in the internet

 

[Spearka]

Just now, Dman979 said:

ummm, what is it?

It's a KSP-fied version of this

But horey shet the part count....

Off-topic, I'm doing a practice match of the Thassa against the Stealth Weasel, I'll let everyone know how it goes

[Redshift OTF]

26 minutes ago, g00bd0g said:

Well, yeah, it was the only thing I could do to gain enough advantage to close to guns range. Stealth Weasel turns so hard it is almost impervious to missile fire. It's more about forcing you defensive so I don't die by your missiles

That seems the way to go. Keep the other plane busy and close in with guns. It's a bit different to the previous version of BD A which started as a missile joust and then ended up as a dogfight if both planes survived. This version, if you get the opposing plane on the defensive it is difficult for the opposition to counter it. It ends up taking evasive manoeuvres against the guns and can't use its manoeuvrability to turn the tables and get behind the attacking plane even if it has better turning skill. I'm not sure I like that personally. Perhaps it was implemented to help planes avoid ground guns.

Still, with turreted weapons it may not be a problem.

[inigma]

18 minutes ago, boomchacle said:

https://kerbalx.com/Boomchacle/Ps2-VS-sythe

I made this to be part of the challenge.

Im not sure if your computer can handle it though, it has nearly 400 parts.

I'd say... um... ok. but if it lags the round, it will be disqualified.  In 1.1 I don't see it being an issue, but this is 1.0.5 for now.  I'll add you to the roster.

 

btw kudos on sporting a scythe. from one scythe pilot to another.  VS, Emerald. GotR. We are your only salvation.

Edited April 11, 2016 by inigma

[g00bd0g]

7 minutes ago, Redshift OTF said:

That seems the way to go. Keep the other plane busy and close in with guns. It's a bit different to the previous version of BD A which started as a missile joust and then ended up as a dogfight if both planes survived. This version, if you get the opposing plane on the defensive it is difficult for the opposition to counter it. It ends up taking evasive manoeuvres against the guns and can't use its manoeuvrability to turn the tables and get behind the attacking plane even if it has better turning skill. I'm not sure I like that personally. Perhaps it was implemented to help planes avoid ground guns.

Still, with turreted weapons it may not be a problem.

In my very brief testing with turreted vulcans, they just don't make contact as well as the fixed guns. Is there a way for BDA to use turreted and fixed guns at the same time? i.e. go for fixed guns solution while blazing away with turrets at incoming missiles and aircraft in range?

[Redshift OTF]

I don't think so. I think the AI can only target 1 thing at a time. Also if you have two gun types it tends to favour one and stick with that. Personally I found the turreted Vulcans as good as the fixed ones.

[boomchacle]

10 minutes ago, inigma said:

I'd say... um... ok. but if it lags the round, it will be disqualified.  In 1.1 I don't see it being an issue, but this is 1.0.5 for now.  I'll add you to the roster.

 

btw kudos on sporting a scythe. from one scythe pilot to another.  VS, Emerald. GotR.

Oh BTW when if you use the sythe, leave the vtol engines running for the full effect

[inigma]

Just a note to competitors. I've noticed that when using Camera Tool's BD mode, that it sometimes bugs out the canons - until I toggle the BDA menu on. After which the AI on both teams begin using canons appropriately.  I'll be mindful of this in future battles: 

[g00bd0g]

43 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

yeah, I've set my Clipper-12000s' to fire 6 per salvo.

And even then it's hard. You'd think that all that wing area would be easy to kill.

FYI I tried to run a match vs your Clipper 11000 and one engine wont light as it's out of fuel...

[Dman979]

3 minutes ago, g00bd0g said:

FYI I tried to run a match vs your Clipper 11000 and one engine wont light as it's out of fuel...

Yeah, I haven't updated the download yet.

I've made a lot of improvements.

[NotAnAimbot]

14 minutes ago, g00bd0g said:

to use turreted and fixed guns at the same time?

In all tests, BDA uses the turreted guns, even if they can't actually hit the intended target.

[Spearka]

I ran a few matches of the Thassa against the Stealth Weasel; the results were....... absolutely terrible.

On paper it would seem like a good fight; the Stealth Weasel has good agility as would the Thassa due to its ASAS modules easily making it change direction, the turrets would cover its blind spots and the quad Vulcans would tear it apart head-on

It couldn't be further from the truth, out of 5-6 matches, the Thassa won ONCE; turns out the ASAS modules would destablise the craft when turning at particularly high speed; the "turning about" is more a burden than a benefit and the only legitimate way of engaging the Stealth Weasels is to use the turrets which was the only victory it got.

I hate these results; I'm compelled to just abandon the design, quit the competition and build a giant middle finger dedicated to Redshift OTF and his bullsh*t plane

Edited April 11, 2016 by Spearka

[Redshift OTF]

Lol, thanks for the compliment. Don't give up! I will give you a couple of tips if I may:

You need a lot of turning surfaces, (flaps ailerons etc), but you don't want the plane to flip over, do a 180 and end up flying backwards, nor do you want the plane to flip 90 degrees and hit a wall of air. The biggest advantage is a high wing area to weight ratio. Lots of wing enables the airflow to change the planes direction at a shallower angle it's pointing in and causes less drag and thus keeps up speed and of course less weight means there's less momentum to fight against. That's why the plane doesn't have much on it in the way of armaments and as little fuel as I think I can get away with.

Also, tails on the top of the plane can cause gun inaccuracy. If you have yaw surfaces only on top of the plane then the plane wants to roll as well when you yaw and the AI is trying to compensate for that which makes the plane spray its guns more. Try and mount yaw surfaces more in line with the Centre of Mass.

[Dman979]

1 minute ago, Redshift OTF said:

high wing area to weight ratio.

You mean wing loading.

But that idea about tails on the center is a good one, I think I'll try it.

[Spearka]

8 minutes ago, Redshift OTF said:

Lol, thanks for the compliment. Don't give up! I will give you a couple of tips if I may:

You need a lot of turning surfaces, (flaps ailerons etc), but you don't want the plane to flip over, do a 180 and end up flying backwards, nor do you want the plane to flip 90 degrees and hit a wall of air. The biggest advantage is a high wing area to weight ratio. Lots of wing enables the airflow to change the planes direction at a shallower angle it's pointing in and causes less drag and thus keeps up speed and of course less weight means there's less momentum to fight against. That's why the plane doesn't have much on it in the way of armaments and as little fuel as I think I can get away with.

Also, tails on the top of the plane can cause gun inaccuracy. If you have yaw surfaces only on top of the plane then the plane wants to roll as well when you yaw and the AI is trying to compensate for that which makes the plane spray its guns more. Try and mount yaw surfaces more in line with the Centre of Mass.

I can understand this, unfortunately I don't think I am able to perform most of these changes without either completely losing the aesthetic which I tried to model the plane from what its named after or worse, making it uglier than Freddy Kreuger trying to perform chainsaw-fellacio.

On another note, removing the ASAS modules reveals it to be a lumbering brick that the Stealth Weasel could defeat any day of the week

Edited April 11, 2016 by Spearka

[Redshift OTF]

You can stick more wing on the craft and move it inside the plane or inside other wing surfaces. I've tried that trick with all kinds of craft that had CoL issues or lift issues in general but wanted to keep the aesthetics.

[YargJay9991]

9 hours ago, inigma said:

No restrictions on craft file editing, except stock offset.

I like it. Now... lets make the wing blocks into wings by adding straight horizontal slits. Then you'll have it.   Thank you so much for working hard on this.

All links in OP updated. Thanks guys!  New entries will require either a KerbalX or Dropbox link.

Thanks. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean with the horizontal slits sorry. Maybe some kind of example pic would help?

Something like this you mean? But a squarer version of it.

 

 

I was basing the shape of the US Air Force logo with the sqaure wings.

Woah, big one....

Any way I'll give it a go.

Happy Flying

YargJay9991

[inigma]

1 hour ago, Spearka said:

I ran a few matches of the Thassa against the Stealth Weasel; the results were....... absolutely terrible.

On paper it would seem like a good fight; the Stealth Weasel has good agility as would the Thassa due to its ASAS modules easily making it change direction, the turrets would cover its blind spots and the quad Vulcans would tear it apart head-on

It couldn't be further from the truth, out of 5-6 matches, the Thassa won ONCE; turns out the ASAS modules would destablise the craft when turning at particularly high speed; the "turning about" is more a burden than a benefit and the only legitimate way of engaging the Stealth Weasels is to use the turrets which was the only victory it got.

I hate these results; I'm compelled to just abandon the design, quit the competition and build a giant middle finger dedicated to Redshift OTF and his bullsh*t plane

No worries. Your spot on the roster is reserved if you come up with something better. Let me know if/when you decide to update your craft link.

[CommanderCoye]

21 hours ago, inigma said:

One entry per person. Do you want to add this as as second craft on your current entry?

no. stock and BDArmory only.

With all these craft change updates, I'm of half a mind of forcing everyone to submit their craft to KerbalX (you can update your craft on KerbalX to the latest versions really easily) and I can just reference the KerbalX download link in the OP. All this OP editing is getting to be a bit much. heh. With KerbalX, all you have to do is replace your current craft with a new file (drag drop) to update it on the fly. Thoughts?  I'm a big fan of KerbalX as well, and really think having KerbalX hosted ASC competitor files would be the best way to go... and to make it easy to find all craft ever submitted to the ASC without me having to keep a running library.

Yes, the current entry please.

[inigma]

5 minutes ago, YargJay9991 said:

Thanks. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean with the horizontal slits sorry. Maybe some kind of example pic would help?

Something like this you mean? But a squarer version of it.

 

 

I was basing the shape of the US Air Force logo with the sqaure wings.

Woah, big one....

Any way I'll give it a go.

Happy Flying

YargJay9991

Ya by horizontal slits I mean see how the airforce logo has straight white lines for differentiating its feathers? Just do that... horizontally on your blue wing block and you'll have what i mean. It gives it a modern wing emblem look. Sorta like this horizontal white space for the feathers.

3 minutes ago, CommanderCoye said:

Yes, the current entry please.

To prevent me from hunting through the thread, can you post the exact line the way you want you and craft to be listed in the OP for me so I can just copy and paste?

10 minutes ago, YargJay9991 said:

Thanks. 

I'm not quite sure what you mean with the horizontal slits sorry. Maybe some kind of example pic would help?

Something like this you mean? But a squarer version of it.

I was basing the shape of the US Air Force logo with the sqaure wings.

YargJay9991

 

see the wing design in the upper right:

[GDJ]

9 hours ago, inigma said:

No restrictions on craft file editing, except stock offset.

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "stock offset"? I'm not trying to be obtuse....just a long day at work.

[inigma]

Just now, GDJ said:

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "stock offset"? I'm not trying to be obtuse....just a long day at work.

There are some mods that allow you to extend the offset restrictions of parts... where you can have a wing be 20+ meters away floating in space. See my Phantom above for an idea of offset: https://kerbalx.com/inigma/Fighter-Papa-1-Phantom

 Any offset more than what stock offers could be considered cheaty since bullets would literally pass right through.

[GDJ]

6 minutes ago, inigma said:

There are some mods that allow you to extend the offset restrictions of parts... where you can have a wing be 20+ meters away floating in space. See my Phantom above for an idea of offset: https://kerbalx.com/inigma/Fighter-Papa-1-Phantom

 Any offset more than what stock offers could be considered cheaty since bullets would literally pass right through.

Gotcha! Kay, I don't have those mods......just about every mod made for aircraft....but not that one.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[YargJay9991]

16 minutes ago, inigma said:

Ya by horizontal slits I mean see how the airforce logo has straight white lines for differentiating its feathers? Just do that... horizontally on your blue wing block and you'll have what i mean. It gives it a modern wing emblem look. Sorta like this horizontal white space for the feathers.

Ok. Mine does have slits but I'll make them more pronounced.

 

[YargJay9991]

55 minutes ago, inigma said:

Ya by horizontal slits I mean see how the airforce logo has straight white lines for differentiating its feathers? Just do that... horizontally on your blue wing block and you'll have what i mean. It gives it a modern wing emblem look. Sorta like this horizontal white space for the feathers.

Ok how's this.

And the badge:

Would you like a badge without the "Champion" for participants?

Thanks and Happy Flying

YargJay9991