[Suggestion] Naturalize Docking Alignment Indicator mod

[regex]

2 minutes ago, monstah said:

The Navball one, tho, that one I think is beautiful.

It's pretty but it really isn't needed, you already have that same functionality on the navball if you orient both craft to the same plane.  E: Or the correct planes they should be oriented too.

Edited April 11, 2016 by regex

[monstah]

I'm not saying it's needed, just that I wouldn't mind it (the other one I'd mind, since it occupies a lot of my screen state).

Besides, the new fixed camera mode makes playing with the camera to find the alignment pretty obsolete. Docking with pure 100% eyeballing has never been easier.

Edited April 11, 2016 by monstah

[Racescort666]

I will say that docking large, heavy, wobbly ships is a PITA without an alignment indicator of some kind. If you're not perfectly square to the target port, they won't dock and the magnetic attraction usually makes it worse. Especially when you're running at 3-4 fps. It goes from brutally painful to toeing the line between tedious and somewhat fun. It also helps to have well balanced RCS but that isn't the topic of discussion. 

I'm not going to say that it would have been impossible to do this without the alignment indicator but as a "quality of life" improvement, it's hard to live without. 

[AlamoVampire]

In my opinion alignment only matters if you are obsessing over making it match down to the last micrometer in terms of rotation. I used to use lazor docking cam for realism but honestly? Misalignment is very kerbal hehe

[Superfluous J]

6 hours ago, regex said:

It's pretty but it really isn't needed, you already have that same functionality on the navball if you orient both craft to the same plane.  E: Or the correct planes they should be oriented too.

And you already have ground altitude in IVA so why put it on the screen? And Apoapsis height is in map mode so that's fine too.

You of all people arguing against more and better presented information? I don't even know anymore.

[regex]

12 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

And you already have ground altitude in IVA so why put it on the screen? And Apoapsis height is in map mode so that's fine too.

You of all people arguing against more and better presented information? I don't even know anymore.

Well, that's the thing, it doesn't need better presentation, it's right there in front of you where you need it.  It doesn't require you to awkwardly switch screens when you're in the middle of activities like launching or landing.

[Superfluous J]

5 minutes ago, regex said:

Well, that's the thing, it doesn't need better presentation, it's right there in front of you where you need it.  It doesn't require you to awkwardly switch screens when you're in the middle of activities like launching or landing.

It just requires you align your craft with the normal of your orbit, which could be less than ideal for any number of reasons.

[regex]

6 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

It just requires you align your craft with the normal of your orbit, which could be less than ideal for any number of reasons.

Not at all, the easiest way is just to align both craft to one of the planes on the navball.  Docking alignment indicators already exist in stock.

[Superfluous J]

16 minutes ago, regex said:

Not at all, the easiest way is just to align both craft to one of the planes on the navball.  Docking alignment indicators already exist in stock.

Maybe we're talking about different things. I'm talking about making sure the docking ports are aimed at each other straight on in a line, not rotated correctly relative to each other. Generally the alignment mods do both but most of the time I don't really care about rotation alignment, just getting the darn things docked together. With smaller ships, coming in 10-20 degrees off is fine but with two hulks that essentially and simply does not work.

You can't align them both to some random position on the navball unless you're orbiting really high, as that random position is relative to where you are in your orbit and will change as time goes on.

It is totally possible I'm mistaken in some way, but I'll need more than "just align them" to understand why.

[tater]

If I am doing a large ship docking where rotating is sluggish, then yeah, I align normal to make docking easier. For routine docking (a CSM-like thing with a station, for example), I just make sure their pointed the right way relative to each other, I don't care if I'm pointed dead West, and I have to correct a lot, it's never a problem---but I tend to line the 2 craft up decently far away, and likely use a little too much RCS. But I like docking, and always throw arcs tanks on stations, so topping off is no issue.

[regex]

16 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Maybe we're talking about different things. I'm talking about making sure the docking ports are aimed at each other straight on in a line, not rotated correctly relative to each other. Generally the alignment mods do both but most of the time I don't really care about rotation alignment, just getting the darn things docked together. With smaller ships, coming in 10-20 degrees off is fine but with two hulks that essentially and simply does not work.

Rotation alignment is what I'm talking about, but you can also get the craft lined up very easily by the navball.

Quote

You can't align them both to some random position on the navball unless you're orbiting really high, as that random position is relative to where you are in your orbit and will change as time goes on.

You can, actually, if your RCS is well balanced (a problem with any scenario, really).  You just have to align them fairly quickly.  Doesn't hurt to double-check either, but once they're basically in the correct attitude you can do the rest by eye.  In fact, if you already have the target craft lined up along the orbital equatorial plane, something I always do by habit, all you need to do is check its orientation and then do the reverse with the other craft.  Pretty simple.

The tools are already there, someone just made one that was really snazzy and now every thinks the tools that are there are substandard.  They're not, people just aren't used to using them.

Edited April 12, 2016 by regex

[Superfluous J]

Incidentally, I can't vote on the poll because there is nothing close enough to an "I don't think the stock game has enough, but I think the Docking Port Alignment Indicator is too much" option.

I personally just want a marker on the navball.

Edited April 12, 2016 by 5thHorseman

[Blaarkies]

I get the feeling that the CAPSLOCK precise control feature balances RCS thrust power based on their location. Using that and LOCKED VIEW makes docking super easy for me in stock game. And of course, hold down MIDDLE-MOUSE-BUTTON and drag the mouse around to pan the camera so you have a good view of the docking port

Rotation via RCS with this method doesn't translate the ship around, and locked view makes the ships orientation to the parent body irrelevant.
And also, no docking mode...that is a really useless feature at the moment

Edited April 12, 2016 by Blaarkies

[Rocket In My Pocket]

On 4/9/2016 at 5:09 PM, Robotoaster said:

Looks like NavyFish got tired with updating the mod.

No. Posted in his own thread as recently as 3 hours ago. Mod is current for version 1.1

On 4/9/2016 at 5:09 PM, Robotoaster said:

As we all love his invention

No. We all definitely do not.

On 4/9/2016 at 5:09 PM, Robotoaster said:

wouldn't be awesome if it became a part of the stock UI?

No. It wouldn't.

/thread?

[Plusck]

I have always assumed that "docking mode" is work-in-progress. It looks to me like the large square panel should have a grainy IR docking port camera underlay, but it just hasn't been implemented yet (probably due to coding issues).

So I agree that docking mode currently serves no useful purpose and rather tends to confuse noobs (it confused me greatly until I finally discovered IJKL/HN), but otherwise I don't agree with any of the OP's poll options or with the idea that something else is "needed" that can't be done with chase or locked camera mode.

[Racescort666]

On April 12, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Blaarkies said:

I get the feeling that the CAPSLOCK precise control feature balances RCS thrust power based on their location.

*snip*

People have said this all over the place but using fine control has never balanced RCS for me. It has decreased the power of RCS to the point where the reaction wheels can take up whatever excess torque they produce though.

EDIT: I remembered to test this tonight and fine control does not balance RCS.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Racescort666

[Warzouz]

I use docking port indicator but I think it should stay a mod. The navball indicator is better to be integrated as stock.

But I really wish the stock "Docking mode" had more of docking feeling. The additional UI widget doesn't seems to be useful. I really wish for a camera with reticule that displayed in this GUI.

I can write text with a cellphone keypad, but I do it much easily with a 105 keyboard.

[Basto]

13 hours ago, Warzouz said:

I use docking port indicator but I think it should stay a mod. The navball indicator is better to be integrated as stock.

But I really wish the stock "Docking mode" had more of docking feeling. The additional UI widget doesn't seems to be useful. I really wish for a camera with reticule that displayed in this GUI.

I can write text with a cellphone keypad, but I do it much easily with a 105 keyboard.

This. Why can't the docking UI incorporate a camera with a target reticle??

[regex]

18 hours ago, Basto said:

This. Why can't the docking UI incorporate a camera with a target reticle??

it doesn't need it, it's just fluff.  Fluff is what mods are for.

[Basto]

56 minutes ago, regex said:

it doesn't need it, it's just fluff.  Fluff is what mods are for.

It also didn't need IVA overlays. One mans fluff is another mans gold. 

[regex]

4 minutes ago, Basto said:

It also didn't need IVA overlays.

Yeah, not sure why those are in the game.  vOv

Edited April 13, 2016 by regex

[Warzouz]

11 hours ago, regex said:

it doesn't need it, it's just fluff.  Fluff is what mods are for.

Why do we need the view screen ? only the navball is useful (and altimeter). That would solve FPS problem too

[Kerbalstar]

UI clutter, UI clutter, UI clutter,  you do know that you can make it smaller right? For me docking is sort of hard and I like it what if you forget RCS? But I think no it shouldn't but in "Docking mode" there should be a camera in there, that you can toggle on and off in settings.  

[Robotoaster]

On 12/04/2016 at 4:15 AM, regex said:

Not at all, the easiest way is just to align both craft to one of the planes on the navball.  Docking alignment indicators already exist in stock.

And they don't do their job. But lets reverse this.

If you are docking why do you need NavBall for? When we switch to docking mode NavBall should be replaced with Docking Alignment.

[Alshain]

Simply aligning both craft to a plane is not always a good solution.  If you are docking to a large space station, turning the station can be risky in itself.  I think the NavBall indicator would be a perfect stock-alike solution and the DPAI mod could fill in the rest as a mod.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Alshain