passinglurker's random dev (recent release: Moar Mk1 ver. 0.3 now with engines!)

[DerpyFirework]

6 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

@DerpyFirework wow thanks on both accounts your config works so I must have been typing in the thrust transform names wrong all along. As for whether to put the configs in my download or in RP-Stock I think the best thing until I move this mod from add-on dev is to include them in RP-Stock if it isn't too much trouble. I'm trying to keep the number of official compatibility config files in my download to a minimum before the 1.0 release so that I can focus on fleshing out the parts list first (though of course I'd still happily link to any compatibility configs anyone else makes in the meantime ) 

No problem! I try to help out whenever I'm pinged, and this sounded simple enough.

RealPlume configs should be included in the next RP-Stock release, just added them to the repo.

[legoclone09]

Playing with this and making some lifters and I realized how light the engines were. I'd change the masses so it is 0.125t for the Sparrow, 0.25t for the Warbler, 0.5t for the Afrikan Swallow and Eurokerban Swallow, and 1 ton for the Falcon and Hawk engines. I got 3.3 km/s of Delta V with a 0.37 ton payload on the 200 fuel tank and the Warbler.

[passinglurker]

3 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

Playing with this and making some lifters and I realized how light the engines were. I'd change the masses so it is 0.125t for the Sparrow, 0.25t for the Warbler, 0.5t for the Afrikan Swallow and Eurokerban Swallow, and 1 ton for the Falcon and Hawk engines. I got 3.3 km/s of Delta V with a 0.37 ton payload on the 200 fuel tank and the Warbler.

Oh trust me I put A LOT of thought into this...

all lifter engines are stated to provide 20 twr, and 285 sea level isp. that is compared to the skipper's 22 twr, and 280 isp, and the aerospikes 18 twr and 290 isp in order to provide a decent combination of thrust, and burn time while not being over powered when paired up with thier matching fuel tank.

The vacuum engines are stated the same way with getting a desired thrust and burn time when paired with a matching class of fuel tank (400 series engine goes with 400 series tank so on and so forth) as a result they came out as roughly miniature poodle engines stat wise.

the stock 1.25m rocket engines besides the aerospike, nerv, and vector were disregarded as imbalanced, overweight, and obsolete during this process you may safely delete them without your gameplay experience suffering.

As for your results I see nothing wrong with early probe shots to duna and eve.
 

---

in other news... progress...

[legoclone09]

Ah, OK. Thanks for the reply, since I don't play Career I don't know they're later on in the tech tree.

And the batteries look amazing!

[passinglurker]

1 hour ago, legoclone09 said:

Ah, OK. Thanks for the reply, since I don't play Career I don't know they're later on in the tech tree.

actually they are earlier. I respect stock when its balance is decent and consistent but most stock 1.25m engines are junk in every aspect so I balanced mine against the 2.5m and aerospike engines and distributed them along the tech tree in a way that can keep up with contracts without having to grind and scum science off the floor of the ksc.

so basically when I balance my parts I follow stock when it's sane and consistent, and fill in and smooth over the potholes when it isn't, and this means making my stuff a little bit better than stock so that there is no need to mix and match porkjet/pork-alike parts with older models to get optimal results.

[legoclone09]

7 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

actually they are earlier. I respect stock when its balance is decent and consistent but most stock 1.25m engines are junk in every aspect so I balanced mine against the 2.5m and aerospike engines and distributed them along the tech tree in a way that can keep up with contracts without having to grind and scum science off the floor of the ksc.

so basically when I balance my parts I follow stock when it's sane and consistent, and fill in and smooth over the potholes when it isn't, and this means making my stuff a little bit better than stock so that there is no need to mix and match porkjet/pork-alike parts with older models to get optimal results.

Ah, makes sense. I think the reason the 1.25m rocket engines are so bad is because they are first.

Also, I made a thing with your parts (and some from Tantares)

A orange 1.875m tank would be pretty cool but out of the scope of this mod.

[run1235]

i woud like to report that your mod does seem to work with 1.2 pre without any problems currently, tanks work fine and so do the engines.

[TheEpicSquared]

On 24/09/2016 at 4:28 AM, run1235 said:

i woud like to report that your mod does seem to work with 1.2 pre without any problems currently, tanks work fine and so do the engines.

It does?? Into my (rather small) GameData folder this goes!  

[Nereid]

Very nice. Parts that fit into stock are always welcome.

[IronCretin]

Your parts are unlocked a tech level before the corresponding stock parts. Is this intentional?

[Nereid]

 

On 15.10.2016 at 7:57 PM, IronCretin said:

Your parts are unlocked a tech level before the corresponding stock parts. Is this intentional?

I have the same complaint. The "Mk1 Rocket Fuel Fuselage 800" is unlocked in "Advanced Rocketry" (45 science) where the coresponding stock part is unlocked in "Fuel Systems" (90 science). There may be other parts like this.

This makes career a lot easier because we can create the same vessel with lower part counts. Because of this, I would call it a bug.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Nereid

[IronCretin]

It should be trivially easy to whip up an MM patch to fix that. I'll see what I can do.

[Nereid]

Yes but please part modders: Try to comply with the stock parts regarding their tech. If the part is pure cosmetical it should reside in the same tech as the stock counterpart or in a later tech. If its a new part it should go in later techs or cost a lot. Additional parts that makes career easier because of tech or costs are a bad idea - if the mod does not intend to make career easier.

[IronCretin]

On 9/5/2016 at 1:33 PM, passinglurker said:

actually they are earlier. I respect stock when its balance is decent and consistent but most stock 1.25m engines are junk in every aspect so I balanced mine against the 2.5m and aerospike engines and distributed them along the tech tree in a way that can keep up with contracts without having to grind and scum science off the floor of the ksc.

so basically when I balance my parts I follow stock when it's sane and consistent, and fill in and smooth over the potholes when it isn't, and this means making my stuff a little bit better than stock so that there is no need to mix and match porkjet/pork-alike parts with older models to get optimal results.

 

[Nereid]

Well... in this case the mod isn't for me. I do not like mods that make career easier by making parts available in earlier tech levels. Strict rule for myself.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Nereid

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, Nereid said:

Well... in this case the mod isn't for me. I do not like mods that make career easier by making parts available in earlier tech levels. Strict rule for myself.

If it bothers you that much, change them yourself? Or even throw up MM configs for anyone else that feels the same way?

[cxg2827]

4 hours ago, Nereid said:

Well... in this case the mod isn't for me. I do not like mods that make career easier by making parts available in earlier tech levels. Strict rule for myself.

K

[passinglurker]

wow lots to catch up on ok...

On 9/23/2016 at 8:28 PM, run1235 said:

i woud like to report that your mod does seem to work with 1.2 pre without any problems currently, tanks work fine and so do the engines.

On 10/10/2016 at 10:47 AM, TheEpicSquared said:

It does?? Into my (rather small) GameData folder this goes!  

On 10/15/2016 at 5:59 AM, Nereid said:

Very nice. Parts that fit into stock are always welcome.

Glad to hear it works for you helping some one else have a fun time is what makes sharing personal mods worth it. 

As for the officially updateing to 1.2 which is no doubt on many of your minds I had set things down and waited through the 1.2 pre release to see what direction things would go and I'm a little sluggish picking them back up but rest assured the batteries and drone cores update will be coming. The parts are in game as already shown its just a matter of finding the right balance for the parts which involves lot of methodical tweaking, studying, and play testing. This becomes increasingly lengthy and complicated with each update as the parts I add branch out along the tech tree.

 

On 10/15/2016 at 11:57 AM, IronCretin said:

Your parts are unlocked a tech level before the corresponding stock parts. Is this intentional?

Yes

3 hours ago, Nereid said:

I have the same complaint. The "Mk1 Rocket Fuel Fuselage 800" is unlocked in "Advanced Rocketry" (45 science) where the coresponding stock part is unlocked in "Fuel Systems" (90 science). There may be other parts like this.

This makes career a lot easier because we can create the same vessel with lower part counts. Because of this, I would call it a bug.

Back when this decision was made the way fuel flow worked made stacking tanks detrimental to rocket stability the move up of the fuel tanks in the tech tree was to facilitate more intuitive and practical construction of beautiful rockets you can just ignore and hide the old stock equivalents there is no reason to use them with this mod installed.

3 hours ago, IronCretin said:

It should be trivially easy to whip up an MM patch to fix that. I'll see what I can do.

Now this is what I like to see good man showing initiative to tune his own game to preference and then sharing with others

3 hours ago, Nereid said:

Yes but please part modders: Try to comply with the stock parts regarding their tech. If the part is pure cosmetical it should reside in the same tech as the stock counterpart or in a later tech. If its a new part it should go in later techs or cost a lot. Additional parts that makes career easier because of tech or costs are a bad idea - if the mod does not intend to make career easier.

Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha NO. 

Though it is far from final I put a lot of thought, energy, and testing into my mods balance and will continue to refine as I see fit because stock balance is krap you are free to come forward with a real play tested proposal for balance revisions and I will genuinely listen but I will never let squad's utter neglect for this game's balance be put on some sort of pedestal that we must confine ourselves too. Instead of on a pedestal I'd rather play on the floor where there is plenty of space.

3 hours ago, Nereid said:

Well... in this case the mod isn't for me. I do not like mods that make career easier by making parts available in earlier tech levels. Strict rule for myself.

 

[IronCretin]

Stock balance patch, for all you stock-ists:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwg3Sequ0Tm9RUlkX0lIZko5ZDQ/view?usp=sharing

Spoiler

// LFO Tanks
@PART[lfoHalfMk1] {
	@TechRequired = basicRocketry
	@entryCost = 1200
}
@PART[lfoStandardMk1] {
	@TechRequired = generalRocketry
	@entryCost = 2500
}
@PART[lfoDoubleMk1] {
	@TechRequired = advRocketry
	@entryCost = 1600
}
@PART[lfoQuadrupleMk1] {
	@TechRequired = fuelSystems
	@entryCost = 4800
}
// LF Tanks
@PART[lfQuadrupleMk1] {
	@TechRequired = aerodynamics
}
// MP Tanks
@PART[monoQuarterMk1] {
	@TechRequired = advFuelSystems
	@Cost = 200
}
@PART[monoHalfMk1] {
	@TechRequired = advFuelSystems
	@Cost = 400
}
@PART[monoStandardMk1] {
	@Cost = 725
}
@PART[monoDoubleMk1] {
	@Cost = 1200
}

// Structural
@PART[strQuadrupleMk1] {
	@TechRequired = advConstruction
}
@PART[strHalfMk1] {
	@TechRequired = aviation
}
@PART[decouplerQuarterMk1] {
	@TechRequired = engineering101
}
@PART[separaterQuarterMk1] {
	@TechRequired = specializedConstruction
}
// Engines
@PART[engine100v] {
	@TechRequired = basicRocketry
}
@PART[engine200v] {
	@TechRequired = generalRocketry
}
@PART[engine400] {
	@TechRequired = advRocketry
}
@PART[engine400v] {
	@TechRequired = advRocketry
}
@PART[engine800] {
	@TechRequired = heavyRocketry
}
@PART[engine800v] {
	@TechRequired = heavyRocketry
}

 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by IronCretin
Updated patch to add entry costs.

[Nereid]

6 hours ago, passinglurker said:

Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha NO. 

Thats your decision. And my decision is: "mod deleted".  It's just that easy. 

[CobaltWolf]

5 hours ago, Nereid said:

Thats your decision. And my decision is: "mod deleted".  It's just that easy. 

K.

[PocketBrotector]

I picked up this mod for the tank textures (thank you!) but found that I also quite liked the engines as well. They really mitigate the tedium of early career mode, much of which is caused by the mediocre selection of lackluster early stock engines.

That said I would like to make a couple of observations/suggestions:

The vacuum engines are balanced against the Poodle which makes them just a little too good. The Poodle is basically the best non-nuclear vacuum engine in the game which is partly offset by the fact that it is also among the largest/heaviest. I have noticed that other mods (RLA Stockalike, Near Future Spacecraft) give trade offs to miniature vacuum engines by slightly penalizing the Isp or TWR, removing the alternator or reducing gimbal, etc.

(However I do recognize that balancing is a matter of judgment calls and personal preference so I hope that doesn't come across as a thoughtless criticism.)

The only self-described lifter engine in the pack is on the small side. There's a big gap in the stock game between the T-45 and Skipper where rocket stacks of a certain size tend to be either under- or over-powered on the first stage. (It's possible to make do with a T-30 or SRBs but their lower Isp and lack of gimbal tend to create another cascade of issues that need their own workarounds.) But the MoarMk1 lifter is even less powerful than a T45 so it's got a pretty narrow use case.

Lastly I like the coherent visual style of the engine series but I find it's hard to tell them apart in the catalog icons - it would be neat to have some kind of color coding or labeling somewhere on each part so that we can see at a glance which is a vacuum/sustainer/lifter etc. (Same thing for the LFO vs LF-only tanks - the stripes aren't readily visible in the part catalog so I often find myself grabbing the wrong type of tank.)

Edited October 21, 2016 by PocketBrotector
Clarify

[Deimos Rast]

@passinglurker

Here is a patch to bring the mod up to 1.2 speed. It's a real mammoth patch, if I do say so.

Ready? It does the following:

• Fixes the typo "fusealage" in the decoupler and separator.
• Changes decoupler/separator categories to Coupling
• Adds snazzy white gas burst fx and real sound vent action on decoupling, to both, 'cuz why not (feel free to remove these lines if this is a stylistic decision).

 

Seriously, the mod is fine. I went over all the fuel tanks, no changes required. I don't personally use the engines, but I peeked at a couple of the configs just to say I did, and they looked fine as well (only thing I wouldn't be 100% on is the Gimbal module, but iirc, changes to that were two versions ago, not this version).

If you want, I have a second patch that renames the stock liquidfuel and structural fuselages to the same naming conventions that you use, for the sake of consistency. It's just flavor text, but, meh.

Cheers.

 

//Mk1 Stack Decoupler Fuselage
@PART[decouplerQuarterMk1]:NEEDS[MoarMk1]
{
  @title = Mk1 Stack Decoupler Fuselage
  @category = Coupling // Structural

  %fx_gasBurst_white = 0.0, 0.1171875, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, decouple
	%sound_vent_large = decouple
}

//Mk1 Stack Separator Fuselage
@PART[separaterQuarterMk1]:NEEDS[MoarMk1]
{
  @title = Mk1 Stack Separator Fuselage
  @category = Coupling // Structural

  %fx_gasBurst_white = 0.0, 0.1171875, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, decouple
	%sound_vent_large = decouple
}

 

[Slamnam]

I haven't used this mod for a few versions, but I miss it. Gonna try in 1.2.2.

 

Any other updates in the works?

 

On 10/30/2016 at 9:47 PM, Deimos Rast said:

//Mk1 Stack Decoupler Fuselage
@PART[decouplerQuarterMk1]:NEEDS[MoarMk1]
{
  @title = Mk1 Stack Decoupler Fuselage
  @category = Coupling // Structural

  %fx_gasBurst_white = 0.0, 0.1171875, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, decouple
	%sound_vent_large = decouple
}

//Mk1 Stack Separator Fuselage
@PART[separaterQuarterMk1]:NEEDS[MoarMk1]
{
  @title = Mk1 Stack Separator Fuselage
  @category = Coupling // Structural

  %fx_gasBurst_white = 0.0, 0.1171875, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, decouple
	%sound_vent_large = decouple
}

 

Quick question... where do I put this and in what format do I save it? I can't find anything in the mod folder that matches this format.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Slamnam
bonus question

[wasml]

@Slamnam Copy into a text file (ex: notepad if you're using Windows) and rename with a cfg extension (ex:MoarMK1_Patch.cfg). You can dump anywhere in the GameData directory but I would make a patch folder "GameData\MMPatches" and dump it there.