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[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9


ShotgunNinja

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I tried the latest release with UMbM by @Yemo and it is not possible to complete even 1mb of science data transmission during the initial two contracts hence prohibiting you from advancing in the career. Let me know if either of the authors want any more deets.

Thanks

Edited by crapstar
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  On 12/19/2016 at 10:29 PM, Tyko said:

wow! I've been tracking Kerbalism all year and really excited it's been updated.

Will kerbalism work with @Galileo's Galilean Planet Pack?

Thanks again!

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I'm running GPP (and I think someone else on this thread, @The-Doctor maybe) and although I haven't been able to download and check this yet, they should work together. To my understanding the planets' radiation belts would need to be configured, but aside from that they should work together.

Edited by kraden
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  On 12/20/2016 at 3:53 AM, kraden said:

I'm running GPP (and I think someone else on this thread, @The-Doctor maybe) and although I haven't been able to download and check this yet, they should work together. To my understanding the planets' radiation belts would need to be configured, but aside from that they should work together.

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Indeed, Kerbalism works with Galileos, except the lack of radiation belts

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I get a couple of ModuleManager errors with a fresh install of KSP + Kerbalism + SMURFF (Using everything up-to-date). Looking at the logs and .cfg files I can see that it is related to the mass of the EVA kerbal and the mass of MonoPropelant, but I have zero knowledge on ModuleManager and I have no idea how to fix it. I will provide logs if you need them, but it is very straightforward to look at where the error is once you install Kerbalism + SMURFF.

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I play Kerbalism with Outer Planets Mod. The biggest issue is that there are no stock antennas that can reach to the edge of the system if you enabled the Signal feature. I've made a PR https://github.com/ShotgunNinja/Kerbalism/pull/46 to add Kerbalism support to the super-awesome https://github.com/KSPSnark/JX2Antenna

You can also get the Origami antennas, those are really cool as well, and already have Kerbalism support.

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Couple of Radiation questions after reading the Wiki

  1. Can I turn Radiation off entirely? I see a setting to turn Storms off, but not Radiation
  2. In the Wiki under Default Profile it says " Radiation belts will have extremely high levels " and in the Environment section it explains that there are 2 belts (inner and outer) the outer belt encompasses much of planetary surroundings. Does this mean that all of that space encompassed by both the inner and outer belts are saturated with extremely high levels? 
  3. How does radiation exposure actually work? what are the "safe" levels? 

Thanks

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@ShotgunNinja, what advantages does the new science system have over the stock one?

  On 12/20/2016 at 2:18 AM, jlcarneiro said:

@ShotgunNinja, how do we make the new science model compatible with mods like [x] Science! and IndicatorLights?

[x] Science! keeps saying there are experiments to be run, while IndicatorLights keeps blinking for the same reason...

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I confess having a few problems with the it: some are shown above, the new one is about stock messages? Are they gone?

Sorry if this has been discussed before (it probably has), is it possible to disable it? According to the wiki, I think it's possible. But at what cost? What will be missing?

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@jlcarneiro You can disable Kerbalism's science module by editing the settings.cfg file (set "science = false"). This will bring back the stock messages and allow [x] Science! and IndicatorLights to work as expected. This should result in using the stock science system rather than Kerbalism's vision for science.

As I understand it, since Kerbalism's science module uses a new storage container (the hard drive) to store experimental data, mods like [x] Science! and IndicatorLights are "looking" in the wrong place so they don't get triggered.

Edited by Epiphanic
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  On 12/20/2016 at 5:53 PM, jlcarneiro said:

@ShotgunNinja, what advantages does the new science system have over the stock one?

I confess having a few problems with the it: some are shown above, the new one is about stock messages? Are they gone?

Sorry if this has been discussed before (it probably has), is it possible to disable it? According to the wiki, I think it's possible. But at what cost? What will be missing?

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To be fair I'm not a big fan of the new science system, apart from the already worn rejig of single science collection and reduced grind as it makes probes more worthwhile IMHO.  And the transmission rate I couldn't cope with in early career.  I also personally can't see the point of the new signal mechanics.

I may try with these both in my next major career when I re-employ EPL and KCT.  If I have to wait to build ships o may as well wait for the science to arrive too.

However I love the radiation issues, the look of the centifuge habitat.  I like the background processing and the way we can monitor craft.  I'm going to try my hand (post christmas) at tweaking the life support closer to IFI LS simplisity.

I altered the science tweak file to remove the FOR or NEEDS kerbalism and then changed the Kerbalism settings.cfg to no Science and Signal.  That keeps the experiment changes in game.  This covers most of my current requirements.

Peace.

Edited by theJesuit
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  On 12/20/2016 at 6:32 PM, theJesuit said:

To be fair I'm not a big fan of the new science system, apart from the already worn rejig of single science collection and reduced grind as it makes probes more worthwhile IMHO.  And the transmission rate I couldn't cope with in early career.  I also personally can't see the point of the new signal mechanics.

I may try with these both in my next major career when I re-employ EPL and KCT.  If I have to wait to build ships o may as well wait for the science to arrive too.

However I love the radiation issues, the look of the centifuge habitat.  I like the background processing and the way we can monitor craft.  I'm going to try my hand (post christmas) at tweaking the life support closer to IFI LS simplisity.

I altered the science tweak file to remove the FOR or NEEDS kerbalism and then changed the Kerbalism settings.cfg to no Science and Signal.  That keeps the experiment changes in game.  This covers most of my current requirements.

Peace.

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I'm not 100% site I understood what you meant with "To be fair I'm not a big fan of the new science system, apart from the already worn rejig of single science collection and reduced grind as it makes probes more worthwhile IMHO."...

Overall, I think I agree with you. Can you please elaborate your last paragraph a bit?

Edited by jlcarneiro
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  On 12/20/2016 at 10:47 PM, jlcarneiro said:

I'm not 100% site I understood what you meant with "To be fair I'm not a big fan of the new science system, apart from the already worn rejig of single science collection and reduced grind as it makes probes more worthwhile IMHO."...

Overall, I think I agree with you. Can you please elaborate your last paragraph a bit?

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Kerbalism alters the science collected from experiments, meaning you only need to do the experiment once.  Also, experiments such as reading temperature, pressure etc can e transmitted for full value but science jr. and goo need to be collected and returned to Kerbin.  Kerbalism has been wearing this mechanic for a while now, but in hindsight my phrasing of it is not clear.  This is awesome and I love it.  I send probes to do science before I send kerbals.

If you simply disable the science by science=false the signal system in the same way in Kerbalism's settings.cfg, then the stock experiments will revert to their normal behaviour.  I think i ve mashed up the 1.1.4 Kerbalism with the 1.1.5 currently in my head with the patches folder now that i've looked back at it!

So along with the settings.cfg, but what I did was remove from the System/Science.cfg all the references to NEEDS[FeatureScience] and FOR[Kerbalism] and all the pieces of the Kerbalism science mechanic that I didn't' want, which gives me pretty much what I want!

I hope this clears it up, I've rewritten this thrice now!

Peace.

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@ShotgunNinja I found a bug. I wish I could screenshot it. Basically, it's this, with remotetech, but I'm unsure if with commnet it's also like this, the non-omni antennae, when activated, show a ghosted line, a grey line, aimed at the planet, the standard line aimed at the planet by Kerbalism's signal except it's greyed out, when deactivated the line showing the connection fades. P.s, LOVE the new science, but, is there a way you could make it optional to still get science reports? Also, could you make there show dots heading on the connection line for remotetech as you showed it for the standard signal a couple of pages back? Btw, the chemical plants look like it'll be interesting for me to set up a base.

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Thanks, @theJesuit!

  On 12/21/2016 at 12:55 AM, theJesuit said:

[...]

If you simply disable the science by science=false the signal system in the same way in Kerbalism's settings.cfg, then the stock experiments will revert to their normal behaviour.  I think i ve mashed up the 1.1.4 Kerbalism with the 1.1.5 currently in my head with the patches folder now that i've looked back at it!

So along with the settings.cfg, but what I did was remove from the System/Science.cfg all the references to NEEDS[FeatureScience] and FOR[Kerbalism] and all the pieces of the Kerbalism science mechanic that I didn't' want, which gives me pretty much what I want!

I hope this clears it up, I've rewritten this thrice now!

[...]

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This is the part I wanted you to clarify: I understand I'll have to disable science and signal in Kerbalism's settings.cfg, but why would I remove all references to NEEDS[FeatureScience] and FOR[Kerbalism] if science is now disabled? :confused:

BTW, apart from full science recovery and the harddrives, what other benefits I'll loose doing this?

On the harddrives topic: it is NOT possible to keep them (with NO auto transfer of science results), is it?

Sorry to make you rewrite this a third time... :P

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Overall loving the new release, and I like the new science system, although it takes some getting used to.  My only complaint is that I have trouble believing that temperature and pressure data can be 6MB of data.  Those extremely simple items should be the size of a crew report at most.  Especially given that in most Tech Trees, they are some of the first available science experiments, so you end up with situations where a probe can't transmit back due to the time and power requirements.  This breaks early-game science collection for people using Unmanned Before Manned, or Historical Progression Tech Tree, among others.

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  On 12/21/2016 at 6:44 PM, jlcarneiro said:

Thanks, @theJesuit!

This is the part I wanted you to clarify: I understand I'll have to disable science and signal in Kerbalism's settings.cfg, but why would I remove all references to NEEDS[FeatureScience] and FOR[Kerbalism] if science is now disabled? :confused:

BTW, apart from full science recovery and the harddrives, what other benefits I'll loose doing this?

On the harddrives topic: it is NOT possible to keep them (with NO auto transfer of science results), is it?

Sorry to make you rewrite this a third time... :P

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I re-wrote my last post three times before submiting it.  Couldn't quite work out what I was trying to say.

by making science=false in the settings.cfg it turns off Kerbalism's FeatureScience, meaning anything that is tagged NEEDS[FeatureScience] will not be used.  So if you want to keep the adjusted rates but not use the entire Science Feature of Kerbalism, then you need to remove the NEEDS[FeatureScience] from the parts you want to keep.  If you want to try a different save with Kerbalism's science=true, you don't need to add the NEEDS[FutureScience] back in as it will load regardless.  If you delete anything else from the science.cfg file obviously that won't load.

Harddrives I believe is a little like the Experiment Storage Unit that is now stock.  So I guess if you add that part to a craft you are able to remove science from a part.  I haven't really played with that yet!  For Harddrives, if they are specifically part of Kerbalism's science system, and not mentioned in any of the .cfg files then you won't keep them.  You possibly could write a MM patch that would add the collection of science back into a crewed module by replicating the ModuleScienceContainer across all crew parts.

I'd be happy for @ShotgunNinja to say if I'm completely wrong about any of this!

Peace.

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  On 12/21/2016 at 9:06 PM, theJesuit said:

I re-wrote my last post three times before submiting it.  Couldn't quite work out what I was trying to say.

by making science=false in the settings.cfg it turns off Kerbalism's FeatureScience, meaning anything that is tagged NEEDS[FeatureScience] will not be used.  So if you want to keep the adjusted rates but not use the entire Science Feature of Kerbalism, then you need to remove the NEEDS[FeatureScience] from the parts you want to keep.  If you want to try a different save with Kerbalism's science=true, you don't need to add the NEEDS[FutureScience] back in as it will load regardless.  If you delete anything else from the science.cfg file obviously that won't load.

Harddrives I believe is a little like the Experiment Storage Unit that is now stock.  So I guess if you add that part to a craft you are able to remove science from a part.  I haven't really played with that yet!  For Harddrives, if they are specifically part of Kerbalism's science system, and not mentioned in any of the .cfg files then you won't keep them.  You possibly could write a MM patch that would add the collection of science back into a crewed module by replicating the ModuleScienceContainer across all crew parts.

I'd be happy for @ShotgunNinja to say if I'm completely wrong about any of this!

Peace.

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Thanks again! Now I think I got it! Sorry, English is not my first language and to make it worse, sometimes I can be very thick... :sticktongue:

Thank you again! :wink:

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