[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[lordcirth]

9 hours ago, ZEvangile said:

I too got those kind of log spams. I removed the CryoTanks mod and... No more spam ! In the same time, science transmissions works again.

Well yes, I'm sure removing cryotanks would fix it - except that it would break my save, given that I have several cryotank vessels in flight.  And the whole reason I need this science transmission is to unlock bigger cryotanks for my Duna mothership.

[The-Doctor]

4 hours ago, leomike said:

@theJesuit Kerbalism dynamically calculates the volume and surface of parts that don't have a hard-coded configuration. This might be what is causing the issue although I can't confirm. One solution would be for you to hardcore the values in the part configuration. You can take a look at GameData/Kerbalism/System/Habitat.cfg for some clue how to do it (although you will need to figure out the volume and surface yourself).

@The-Doctor Some experiments are useful to do in a lab, but a temperature reading from Duna shouldn't yield more science if analyzed around the Mun or a surface sample from Minimus create more science if looked at in orbit of Kerbin rather than on the ground (which it does in stock). It would make more sense to have experiments that are conducted in the lab itself not simply an analysis of results from other experiments.

yeah that makes sense

[MaxRebo]

I'm experiencing a rather massive phantom drain of electric charge. For example, my ComSat has 3670 EC worth of battery, and it won't even last through half the night side in Keostationary orbit at a drain of about 3~5 EC/s (it's different every time) with everything but the probe core disabled. Flight planner tells me I should have 0.02 EC/s drain in this configuration, and last well over 8 days in shadow. But then again, Kerbalism won't allow me to include basically anything in the planning simulation. I only remember having seen the option a handful of times, and don't even recall what parts they were on (probably ScanSat).

The only mods I have installed which could conceivably interfere with Kerbalism are RemoteTech and the WildBlueIndustries suite (MOLE, DSEV, Pathfinder, etc.). Does Kerbalism have a way of getting a breakdown of EC consumption? I don't want to complicate the setup further by installing additional mods like AmpYear for this purpose, since that would be another interference for sure. Maybe Kerbalism isn't even involved in the conflict (if it indeed is one), but it's the main suspect for obvious reasons. Any ideas or pointers would be greatly appreciated...

/edit additional info: the phantom drain appears to only happen when the vessel is active, and only if it has been time-warped at least once while active (5x appears to be sufficient to trigger).

Edited August 29, 2017 by MaxRebo

[Majikthyze]

Just an issue I've noticed with CxAerospace in the use of the Exercise Module... there is no Exercise benefit associated with the part in the same way it is with the Hitchhiker Habitat.  Was this an oversight?

[John Nowak]

17 hours ago, leomike said:

@theJesuit

@The-Doctor Some experiments are useful to do in a lab, but a temperature reading from Duna shouldn't yield more science if analyzed around the Mun or a surface sample from Minimus create more science if looked at in orbit of Kerbin rather than on the ground (which it does in stock). It would make more sense to have experiments that are conducted in the lab itself not simply an analysis of results from other experiments.

I'm in agreement, pretty much. Personally, I'd want a resource called "Experiments" that are processed in a lab to create "Science."

[leomike]

@MaxRebo You could try launching a copy on the launchpad without solar panel (or any other part the generates electricity) and see if you can replicate the issue. If so, try removing the parts one at the time until the issue goes away. This would allow us to pinpoint the source of the problem to a single part. Since this only happens in the foreground it is possible it is an issue with the other mod rather than Kerbalism in which case you might want to check the thread for that mod or see if the problem persists after removing Kerbalism.

@Majikthyze Try adding this at the end of Kerbalism/Support/CxAerospace.cfg

@PART[CXA_GymHab]:NEEDS[FeatureComfort]:FOR[Kerbalism]
{
  MODULE
  {
    name = Comfort
    bonus = exercise
    desc = A treadmill designed to permit exercise in zero-g is included. The crew will love it.
  }

  MODULE:NEEDS[FeatureReliability]
  {
    name = Reliability
    type = Comfort
    title = Treadmill
    repair = Engineer@1
    mtbf = 36288000 // 4y
    extra_cost = 0.25
    extra_mass = 0.05
  }

  @tags ^= :$: comfort:
}

 

[Majikthyze]

Hi Leomike,

 

Thanks, I did something like that but I added the exact same script text to the Comfort.cfg file in the Kerbalism\System directory.  That did the trick for the 1.2.8 version I am using.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Majikthyze

[lordcirth]

On 2017/08/22 at 5:13 PM, lordcirth said:

So my problem might actually be a background processing problem, I'm getting this spam again:

 

Parameter name: key
        System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[System.String,KERBALISM.resource_info].TryGetValue (System.String key, KERBALISM.resource_info& value)
        KERBALISM.vessel_resources.Info (.Vessel v, System.String resource_name)
        KERBALISM.Background.ProcessCryoTank (.Vessel v, .ProtoPartSnapshot p, .ProtoPartModuleSnapshot m, .PartModule simple_boiloff, KERBALISM.vessel_resources resources, Double elapsed_s)
        KERBALISM.Background.update (.Vessel v, KERBALISM.vessel_info vi, KERBALISM.VesselData vd, KERBALISM.vessel_resources resources, Double elapsed_s)
        KERBALISM.Kerbalism.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 17:10:08.167] ArgumentNullException: Argument cannot be null.
Parameter name: key
        System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[System.String,KERBALISM.resource_info].TryGetValue (System.String key, KERBALISM.resource_info& value)
        KERBALISM.vessel_resources.Info (.Vessel v, System.String resource_name)
        KERBALISM.Background.ProcessCryoTank (.Vessel v, .ProtoPartSnapshot p, .ProtoPartModuleSnapshot m, .PartModule simple_boiloff, KERBALISM.vessel_resources resources, Double elapsed_s)
        KERBALISM.Background.update (.Vessel v, KERBALISM.vessel_info vi, KERBALISM.VesselData vd, KERBALISM.vessel_resources resources, Double elapsed_s)
        KERBALISM.Kerbalism.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 17:10:08.186] ArgumentNullException: Argument cannot be null.

It sounds like an incompatibility with CryoTanks.  @ShotgunNinja am I right?

So I moved Gamedata/CryoTanks/SimpleBoiloff.dll out of the way and things now work.  However I'd really love if I could re-enable this before launching my Duna Mothership, which will use cryotanks.  @ShotgunNinja I know you fixed CryoTanks compatibility a while back, do you have any idea what might have broken it again?

[TinyPirate]

Started a stream series featuring Kerbalism. Can't say I'm very good yet. Will let you know if it gets interesting

Oh, I've just noticed Kerbnet is turned off in my menu options. It's that Kerbalism or did I mess something up creating my campaign? I miss those little UI bars and toggling it on again doesn't seem to make them come back

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by TinyPirate

[MaxRebo]

On 8/29/2017 at 10:51 PM, leomike said:

@MaxRebo You could try launching a copy on the launchpad without solar panel (or any other part the generates electricity) and see if you can replicate the issue. If so, try removing the parts one at the time until the issue goes away. This would allow us to pinpoint the source of the problem to a single part. Since this only happens in the foreground it is possible it is an issue with the other mod rather than Kerbalism in which case you might want to check the thread for that mod or see if the problem persists after removing Kerbalism.

Ok, I managed to track down the issue to no mod in particular, but rather every solar panel (including stock ones). No solar panels = no phantom drain at all, even under high timewarp. The relative amount of phantom drain appears to be roughly proportional to the panels' combined maximum power output, and it's not like the drain doesn't happen without timewarp, it just starts at a very low level. Each timewarp then makes the drain worse (I managed to get what should be ~0.05 to ~25 by timewarping at 50x for a minute or so). Only quicksaving/quickloading will revert the drain back to its "normal" low starting amount. Unloading the vessel so that Kerbalism's background simulation kicks in will make the drain disappear - until the vessel is loaded again.

Removing Kerbalism eliminates the drain completely, so I'm almost convinced at this point that the issue is with Kerbalism, and likely with Kerbalism alone, i.e. no mod conflict. I don't know how methodical @ShotgunNinja's testing procedures are, but considering the drain is almost unnoticeable at first without timewarp and even smaller the less power generation the vessel has, the bug might have gone unnoticed until now - especially if it's a recent regression.

Edited September 1, 2017 by MaxRebo

[TinyPirate]

I've searched around for the answer, and I can't see anything current: Do Kerbalism and [x] Science work nicely together? I understand that in the past they didn't, but I would love to make science gathering a touch less clicky clicky, and [x] could do the tricky if it works nice.

[lordcirth]

51 minutes ago, TinyPirate said:

I've searched around for the answer, and I can't see anything current: Do Kerbalism and [x] Science work nicely together? I understand that in the past they didn't, but I would love to make science gathering a touch less clicky clicky, and [x] could do the tricky if it works nice.

It works great, takes about a second sometimes to recognize that you've run a given experiment and show green.  I am also using Dmagic and a few unusual experiments there don't show up, btw.

[Iso-Polaris]

Is there a way to reduce stress level without going back to kerbin?

I was trying to get to an outer planet which will probably take 50+ years to get there. 

[lordcirth]

9 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

Is there a way to reduce stress level without going back to kerbin?

I was trying to get to an outer planet which will probably take 50+ years to get there. 

You can slow it down a lot, but never reduce it without recovering.  You could use Deep Freeze to stop all life support entirely.

[Iso-Polaris]

Just now, lordcirth said:

You can slow it down a lot, but never reduce it without recovering.  You could use Deep Freeze to stop all life support entirely.

Does Bravery and stupidity affect the stress level?

Don't you think there will be great explorers who think the universe are there home, rather live in a colony or a ship instead of go back to kerbin

[Iso-Polaris]

I would appreciate a possibility to build a self-sustainable planetary colony without kerbals breakdown because of  "stress" level.

I need a way to reduce stress level (not slow it down) to 0% after I put kerbals in a beautiful base I made on another planet, which means no mental breakdown events WITHOUT FREEZING THEM

[Galileo]

3 minutes ago, Iso-Polaris said:

I would appreciate a possibility to build a self-sustainable planetary colony without kerbals breakdown because of  "stress" level.

I need a way to reduce stress level (not slow it down) to 0% after I put kerbals in a beautiful base I made on another planet, which means no mental breakdown events WITHOUT FREEZING THEM

Kerbalism is not looking like the mod for you then  it's not modular enough yet to allow what you want 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Galileo

[Iso-Polaris]

9 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Kerbalism is not looking like the mod for you then  it's not modular enough yet to allow what you want 

I really like those radiation, reliability, and the science setting in kerbalism.

{I tried USI-MKS, how ever it causes more bugs and lags, and sadly not CRP orientated}

 

maybe allow ComfortFirmGround value to be infinity would do the trick 

[lordcirth]

1 minute ago, Iso-Polaris said:

Does Bravery and stupidity affect the stress level?

Don't you think there will be great explorers who think the universe are there home, rather live in a colony or a ship instead of go back to kerbin

No it doesn't.  You can see the numbers involved in the Kerbalism planner.  Living space per kerbal, up to 40m^3, multiplied by the comforts.   What you might be able to do is add a new part that is massive and adds, like, +1 to the comfort factor, which would double everything.

[theJesuit]

On 31/08/2017 at 8:48 PM, TinyPirate said:

Started a stream series featuring Kerbalism. Can't say I'm very good yet. Will let you know if it gets interesting

Oh, I've just noticed Kerbnet is turned off in my menu options. It's that Kerbalism or did I mess something up creating my campaign? I miss those little UI bars and toggling it on again doesn't seem to make them come back

 

You will also need to turn on Signal (KerbNet) in your save's persistance.cfg file.  It isn't kerbalism per say, well it is as Kerbalism's signal option turns off kerbnet, but turning off Kerbalism Signal doesn't bring back the stock signal thing.

I don't know if that is clear or not.

Peace.

[TinyPirate]

On 9/2/2017 at 4:43 PM, lordcirth said:

It works great, takes about a second sometimes to recognize that you've run a given experiment and show green.  I am also using Dmagic and a few unusual experiments there don't show up, btw.

Thanks for that! I'll give it a go. Finding all my experiments is troublesome.

 

17 hours ago, theJesuit said:

You will also need to turn on Signal (KerbNet) in your save's persistance.cfg file.  It isn't kerbalism per say, well it is as Kerbalism's signal option turns off kerbnet, but turning off Kerbalism Signal doesn't bring back the stock signal thing.

I don't know if that is clear or not.

Peace.

Oh, I want Kerbalism's system, I just thought it didn't remove the cool UI. I'll leave it as is then

[leomike]

On 9/2/2017 at 10:24 AM, Iso-Polaris said:

Does Bravery and stupidity affect the stress level?

No, variance per Kerbal is a function of their name, not their traits.

22 hours ago, Iso-Polaris said:

maybe allow ComfortFirmGround value to be infinity would do the trick 

21 hours ago, lordcirth said:

What you might be able to do is add a new part that is massive and adds, like, +1 to the comfort factor, which would double everything.

This doesn't work, the total comfort values are limited between 0.1 and 1.0. If they add up to more it will simply be capped at 1.0.

@Iso-Polaris I had the same issue as you regarding stress (and also radiation). I wanted a way for both of them to go down in perfect conditions. In the end I had to recompile Kerbalism with some changes to achieve this.

[John Nowak]

On 9/2/2017 at 0:02 PM, Iso-Polaris said:

I would appreciate a possibility to build a self-sustainable planetary colony without kerbals breakdown because of  "stress" level.

I need a way to reduce stress level (not slow it down) to 0% after I put kerbals in a beautiful base I made on another planet, which means no mental breakdown events WITHOUT FREEZING THEM

It should be possible to manually update the stress levels of the individual Kerbals in persistence.cfg. 

 

[Basilicofresco]

@ShotgunNinja @lordcirth

I researched a bit about the Molten Regolith Electrolysis and I found out some interesting facts. At the moment Kerbalism is using MRE process just to produce oxygen, but real MRE produces also metal at the catode. Actually in order to continue the oxygen extraction, the metal must be removed from the core.

Mined iron could be used for shielding purposes since it is just slightly heavier than lead at the same shielding level with high energy gamma radiations. Iron is pretty abundant in Moon, Mars and asteroids soils, so the extraction sounds realistic. Moreover I feel that it would add additional fun and possibilities to the mission planning... and to the struggle for survival.

Using the 100% ilmenite conversion model, along with 1 liter of oxygen we could extract 1.661 g of iron. However reading this really interesting and detailed paper about MRE reactor modelling we could assume that a cutting edge 50kW MRE reactor of 1000 kg with an optimal working temperature of 2300 K can quite realistically produce 0.317 g/s of oxygen (10000 kg/year of O2, page 104) and at least 0.0317 g/s of Fe (1000 kg/year with the metal poor Moon regolith coming from highlands, page 102). This reactor would have an oxygen extraction efficiency up to 35% (fraction of oxygen that can be extracted by lunar regolith by weight, page 91), so the processed amount of regolith should be 0.906 g/s. Since only the central part of the regolith within the reactor core will be molten (the rest must stay solid in order to protect the reactor walls, page 63, 69 and 95), I suspect that the real total amount of required regolith will be higher. It is not clear if after the completion of each batch, the whole content of the reactor is discarded or just the central slag part. To stay on the safe side I will cut the oxygen extraction efficiency to 20%. So more regolith will be required, about 1.5855 g/s.

Assuming ore=regolith, each liter of O2 will require 0,00071384 units of ore and 225 EC and it will produce 0.142 g of Fe. Let's say that the conversion of molten iron in a proprer shielding tile will be done with an efficiency of 70% and we have 0.00044 0.00000044 shielding units per oxygen liter.

Yes, as you probably noted, the elephant in the room is the huge quantity of energy required. I considered 50kW=50EC/s, is it correct? Well, after all is a 50kW monster that is barely able to produce 1 oxygen liter every 4.5 s.

Well, using this data I tried to adjust the MRE process:

  Process
  {
    name = molten regolith electrolysis
    modifier = _MRE
    input = [email protected] // 10 kW MRE reactor at 2300 K
    input = [email protected]
    output = [email protected]
    output = [email protected]
    // Slag is wasted
  }

How does it sound? From the point of view of gameplay, if you want to extract oxygen on site you will need several Gigantor XL solar arrays. Maybe on a separate unmanned vessel.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Basilicofresco
fixed shielding quantity

[lordcirth]

5 minutes ago, Basilicofresco said:

@ShotgunNinja @lordcirth

I researched a bit about the Molten Regolith Electrolysis and I found out some interesting facts. At the moment Kerbalism is using MRE process just to produce oxygen, but real MRE produces also metal at the catode. Actually in order to continue the oxygen extraction, the metal must be removed from the core.

Mined iron could be used for shielding purposes since it is just slightly heavier than lead at the same shielding level with high energy gamma radiations. Iron is pretty abundant in Moon, Mars and asteroids soils, so the extraction sounds realistic. Moreover I feel that it would add additional fun and possibilities to the mission planning... and to the struggle for survival.

Using the 100% ilmenite conversion model, along with 1 liter of oxygen we could extract 1.661 g of iron. However reading this really interesting and detailed paper about MRE reactor modelling we could assume that a cutting edge 50kW MRE reactor of 1000 kg with an optimal working temperature of 2300 K can quite realistically produce 0.317 g/s of oxygen (10000 kg/year of O2, page 104) and at least 0.0317 g/s of Fe (1000 kg/year with the metal poor Moon regolith coming from highlands, page 102). This reactor would have an oxygen extraction efficiency up to 35% (fraction of oxygen that can be extracted by lunar regolith by weight, page 91), so the processed amount of regolith should be 0.906 g/s. Since only the central part of the regolith within the reactor core will be molten (the rest must stay solid in order to protect the reactor walls, page 63, 69 and 95), I suspect that the real total amount of required regolith will be higher. It is not clear if after the completion of each batch, the whole content of the reactor is discarded or just the central slag part. To stay on the safe side I will cut the oxygen extraction efficiency to 20%. So more regolith will be required, about 1.5855 g/s.

Assuming ore=regolith, each liter of O2 will require 0,00071384 units of ore and 225 EC and it will produce 0.142 g of Fe. Let's say that the conversion of molten iron in a proprer shielding tile will be done with an efficiency of 70% and we have 0.00044 shielding units per oxygen liter.

Yes, as you probably noted, the elephant in the room is the huge quantity of energy required. I considered 50kW=50EC/s, is it correct? Well, after all is a 50kW monster that is barely able to produce 1 oxygen liter every 4.5 s.

Well, using this data I tried to adjust the MRE process:

  Process
  {
    name = molten regolith electrolysis
    modifier = _MRE
    input = [email protected] // 10 kW MRE reactor at 2300 K
    input = [email protected]
    output = [email protected]
    output = [email protected]
    // Slag is wasted
  }

How does it sound? From the point of view of gameplay, if you want to extract oxygen on site you will need several Gigantor XL solar arrays. Maybe on a separate unmanned vessel.

Wow, good job on the research.  Skimming it, it seems that heat loss to the outside is one of the main consumers of energy.  If we assume we have better insulation, we could lower the EC cost for balance?