[1.11] RemoteTech v1.9.9 [2020-12-19]

[SilverlightPony]

4 hours ago, Zhetaan said:

There's a GitHub issue that's been up for a while, but as was mentioned earlier, development has been slow.  The code doesn't really tell much except that the weird toggle behaviour is part of the UI, which was added rather recently compared to the rest of the mod.  It clamps slider values at or under .49 to zero and values over .49 to one--and since the slider is polled for a multiplier value after the .cfg, changing the setting in the .cfg won't help.

I believe the current thought is that it was either some test code or a copy-paste error, because it certainly makes no sense as it is right now.

Oh, lovely.  :|

3 hours ago, neitsa said:

@SilverlightPony I'll take a look at this issue. The slider should effectively be linear and not binary.

 

Appreciated, although mind you I'm on KSP v1.1.2 since most of my mods haven't been updated to 1.1.3 yet.

[ExplorerKlatt]

2 hours ago, SilverlightPony said:

 

Appreciated, although mind you I'm on KSP v1.1.2 since most of my mods haven't been updated to 1.1.3 yet.

Like what?

[SilverlightPony]

2 hours ago, ExplorerKlatt said:

Like what?

I've got 86 mods installed through CKAN, and a few more installed manually.  Only about 45 of those have been updated to 1.1.3.  You want the full list?

Edited September 27, 2016 by SilverlightPony

[ExplorerKlatt]

12 hours ago, SilverlightPony said:

I've got 86 mods installed through CKAN, and a few more installed manually.  Only about 45 of those have been updated to 1.1.3.  You want the full list?

Don't need the full list was just thinking I had quite a few that never got officially updated to 1.1.3 but worked just fine. 

[The-Doctor]

CommNet causes the signal to choose multiple tracking  stations, I think it's appropriate for there to be multiple red dots on Kerbin to simulate that. I also like the idea of you still having minor control over the probe. This would be only if you have a flight computer and forward AI control, basically, this would be you sending a set of instructions to the probe to do emergency maneuvers in case it loses control (well that's the explanation) this info is stored in the flight computer, it should take a lot of power to forward it as it's complex coding and should take you a while to send the information (maybe you should be able to load the AI in the VAB but it should take up a lot of space on the flight computer) and if you lack a flight computer you should lose all control when signal delay is gone. I do like the ability to select an antennae to send your signal, but there should also be an option where you set up a deep space comm sat with a long range dish and choosing the option to automatically switch to a vessel that loses connection to try to return connection. That's just my ideas lol, I love RemoteTech but I do like some of the things in CommNet and believe RT and CN should be merged, keeping the best elements of both. . 

[Yemo]

On 25.9.2016 at 10:17 PM, cyberpunkdreams said:

Well, I've just written in offering to help with development (whether I'll actually be able to help or not is another matter). My two pennies for development are:

• Should be built on top of the new KSP 1.2 functionality
• Signal delay should stay (or at least remain an option)
• Directional dishes should stay
• Flight computer should stay
• Should definitely keep 1.2's distinction between relay and non-relay antennas. I've wanted this for a long time anyway.

I dont see how the distinction between relay and non-relay can coexist with the RT functionality to point every dish individually.

[SilverlightPony]

2 hours ago, Yemo said:

I dont see how the distinction between relay and non-relay can coexist with the RT functionality to point every dish individually.

Agreed--and I prefer the RT implementation.

[Poodmund]

Yeah isn't CommNet's Relay and Antenna functions pretty much the same as RT's distinction between Antennas and Omni-antennas with RT's antenna module just not being able to take a signal and relay it through a single antenna?

[Drew Kerman]

7 hours ago, Poodmund said:

Yeah isn't CommNet's Relay and Antenna functions pretty much the same as RT's distinction between Antennas and Omni-antennas with RT's antenna module just not being able to take a signal and relay it through a single antenna?

that's a thing in RT? I always had every antenna be an omni-antenna. I guess I could have missed using parts that were just receiver antennas and not even realized they were there

[SilverlightPony]

1 hour ago, Drew Kerman said:

that's a thing in RT? I always had every antenna be an omni-antenna. I guess I could have missed using parts that were just receiver antennas and not even realized they were there

It's not about transmit/receive; in RT, dish antennas can only point in one direction, whereas dipole antennas (like the Communotron 16 and 32) are omnidirectional, but any antenna (or more accurately, pair of antennas on a single craft) can be used to relay a signal.  With 1.2's ComNet, you've got normal antennas that are equipped on a probe you want to control, and specific "relay" antennas that can relay a command signal to another probe.

[Drew Kerman]

1 hour ago, SilverlightPony said:

dish antennas

oh, that's probably it. I've always just called them "dishes" (round things) and "antennas" (long pointy things). Obviously a dish has an antenna in it, so the phrase makes sense, but I never looked at it that way, hence my confusion on the terminology used

Edited September 29, 2016 by Drew Kerman

[kcs123]

Main difference regarding relays between stock 1.2. Comnet and latest published RT as we know is that in RT, you need to direct each antenna to specific craft or ground station. For example you have relay probe landed on Mun or in orbit around Mun with 2 relay antenna. You need to direct one antenna to KSC and other antenna toward some probe at Minimus, for example. Probe around Minimus need to have their antenna directed toward Mun relay probe, to be able to establish connection.

Quite realistic behaviour. Drawback is that UI for specific probe/antenna quickly become filled of data, creating a bit of confusion, especialy for people who started to use RT mod and have no much clue how things work in real life.

Stock 1.2. ComNet calculate connection trough network to always use strongest signal possible, without need to specify direction of each antenna/probe. Less realistic but more user/player friendly UI. Major drawback of stock system is that it does not check if relay probe have at least 2 relay antenna, you can establish network node with only one antenna. Some players found that quite unrealistic and immersion breaking over existing RT mod.

There is also ongoing debate, should antenna be able to stack up, to get stronger signal on one probe or not.

[gary.townsend]

7 hours ago, kcs123 said:

Some players found that quite unrealistic and immersion breaking over existing RT mod.

I alway sfind this ironic as we are playing a video game with simplified physics and vegetable men and women, not sure where realistic has any business but, i digress.

[kcs123]

15 hours ago, gary.townsend said:

I alway sfind this ironic as we are playing a video game with simplified physics and vegetable men and women, not sure where realistic has any business but, i digress.

Agree. Have to draw line somewhere between realistic simulator and just video game that only need to provide some fun. KSP is kind of special genre of video game as you always learn something new as side effect .

 

[Toonu]

So if I understand it correctly, the mod will update to 1.2, but won't SoonTM be updated to addon above stock relays? I'm not asking for update or encourage developers to be faster. Just asking...

 

Thanks!

Ave! Toonu

[Suedocode]

On 9/25/2016 at 3:17 PM, cyberpunkdreams said:

Well, I've just written in offering to help with development (whether I'll actually be able to help or not is another matter). My two pennies for development are:

• Should be built on top of the new KSP 1.2 functionality
• Signal delay should stay (or at least remain an option)
• Directional dishes should stay
• Flight computer should stay
• Should definitely keep 1.2's distinction between relay and non-relay antennas. I've wanted this for a long time anyway.

My biggest general complaint about RT and most (maybe only?) favorite feature of CommNet is that I don't need a billion dishes pointing every which way to target different things. Other than that, RT is still superior in my opinion. I would only request that in the subsequent release that makes CommNet the backbone of RT, could there be an option to set dishes to send/receive signals rather than specifically pointing them every which way? I think it's a bit silly to send relays that have a specific dish for each specific moon (draining copious amounts of power for no reason) when the same thing could be achieved by pointing a single dish at the current POI, and then pointing a second dish back at Kerbin or whatever node leads back to Kerbin. This would allow for relay networks to only require 2 dishes (1 big back to Kerbin or another node, one 1 small to communicate with the local system).

As a result, you could use the CommNet's Relay vs Direct distinction, and then put another layer on top of that which is Relay-Send and Relay-receive. Would this not be a more realistic representation of what a relay satellite would look like?

Edited September 30, 2016 by Suedocode

[garwel]

@Suedocode In RT, there is an option to target Active Vessel. Isn't it what you are talking about?

[Suedocode]

6 hours ago, garwel said:

@Suedocode In RT, there is an option to target Active Vessel. Isn't it what you are talking about?

Similar, but more general. For instance, if I want to do Duna->Moho->Kerbin, I have to do one of two things:

1. Duna switches a dish from pointing to Kerbin to point to Moho
2. Moho switches "Active Vessel" to Duna, assumed another is still pointing at Kerbin
3. Switch back to vessel

This requires a minimum of 3 vessel switches each time I want to bounce a signal around, where each relay needs 2 directional dishes*. OR

1. Every relay has enough satellites to point to every planetary body and "Active Vessel

Now everything just instantly works, but at the cost of monstrous relay satellites that require an abominable amount of power and a plethora of dishes.

With the proposed system, I could still have my relay network with 2 directional dishes with one set to Receive and another set of Transmit. Now, case 1 automatically happens:

1. Duna's Recieve points at Active Vessel, Transmit points to Moho.
2. Moho's Recieve points to Duna, Transmit points to Kerbin

Basically, let the path finding algorithm configure the dishes optimally rather than having to manually do it each time.You probably don't even need the dish modes at all; you can just have the dishes figure out what they need to be. As long as there are at least two on the craft, it should be able to be a general relay I think.

*EDIT: Alternatively, you'd only need one dish and one omni per satellite if you let one satellite at Moho receive through the dish, send through an omni to a nearby satellite, who then forwards the signal back to Kerbin through a dish. Way more efficient, but way more tedious.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Suedocode

[SilverlightPony]

@Suedocode  That would be less realistic, and some people want more realism in how things work, but there's nothing inherently wrong with either opinion.  Ideally, there would be an option in the settings as to which type of functionality you want to use.

Edited October 1, 2016 by SilverlightPony

[Suedocode]

Just now, SilverlightPony said:

That would be less realistic, and some people want more realism in how things work, but there's nothing inherently wrong with either opinion.  Ideally, there would be an option in the settings as to which type of functionality you want to use.

It gives no more ability than what it currently available, but the difference is that it greatly reduces the tedium of manually adjusting all of the satellites across the chosen relay path. Having to load every satellite relay network to adjust what dishes point where to establish a connection doesn't really add much to the game. NASA would almost certainly reconfigure an existing network as needed rather than sending a bunch of redundant dishes all around the solar system.

[Toonu]

3 hours ago, Suedocode said:

It gives no more ability than what it currently available, but the difference is that it greatly reduces the tedium of manually adjusting all of the satellites across the chosen relay path. Having to load every satellite relay network to adjust what dishes point where to establish a connection doesn't really add much to the game. NASA would almost certainly reconfigure an existing network as needed rather than sending a bunch of redundant dishes all around the solar system.

What instead add a configurable dishes to tracking station, so you will adjust the dishes without need to load every vessel? The mod is loading every dishes, so it will be able to change it, when all dishes must be loaded I think.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Toonu

[DerekL1963]

4 hours ago, SilverlightPony said:

That would be less realistic, and some people want more realism in how things work

No offense, I've used RemoTech and love the challenge...  But if you want realism - then RemoTech isn't what you want.  In reality, spaceborne dishes don't get bigger and heavier as the ranges increase.  In reality, most of the heavy lifting is done by the terrestrial DSN not a collection of relay satellites and spaceborne dishes of ever increasing weight.  In reality space communications don't require the tedious micromanagement of relays - because there with rare exceptions there aren't relays in the first place.

Remotech provides a significant challenge, but isn't really 'realistic'.

[maja]

24 minutes ago, Toonu said:

What instead add a configurable dishes to tracking station, so you will adjust the dishes without need to load every vessel? The mod is loading every dishes, so it will be able to change it, when all dishes must be loaded I think.

You can do this at least in the last version. When you click on the dish button in the tracking station, then you can change target of antennas.

[Minowara]

I'm having an issue with certain RO/RSS probe cores not being able to transmit science data with RemoteTech. It will show the percentage of data transmitted but upon hitting 100%, nothing happens.

In particular, I'm noticing it with the Pioneer 3/4 probe. It only seems to affect things with integrated, 'always-on' antennas. And only if they have multiple built-in antennas.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Minowara
Further info

[nablabla]

Hi, I have an unmanned capsule with a probe core on top, with a dish antenna.

It is connected indirectly to a sttelite in orbit but it keeps saying "no connection"

any explanation?