dock for boats

[volcanic_wolf]

who else agrees they should add a dock to the space center, even though this is ksp

[Vanamonde]

This suggestion for the game's development has been moved to Suggestions & Development. 

[Corona688]

One on the island airport would certainly make sense.

[Vaporized Steel]

Actually a really cool idea.
I make boats from time to time and then just use the hyperedit mod to get it into the water.

Since boats are unrelated to KSP I don't think it will happen.
But whether it will or not usually lies with support, and I support it, hopefully others as well.

[Grenartia]

On 6/23/2016 at 1:01 PM, Vaporized Steel said:

Actually a really cool idea.
I make boats from time to time and then just use the hyperedit mod to get it into the water.

Since boats are unrelated to KSP I don't think it will happen.
But whether it will or not usually lies with support, and I support it, hopefully others as well.

Which is like saying land vehicles are unrelated to KSP, so we shouldn't expect Squad to implement rover stuff.

I mean, we already have improved buoyancy, and stock seaplanes. Implementing a dock to launch boats/ships/subs/any-of-the-above-crossed-with-a-rocket-or-an-SSTO from only seems like the next logical step. Would make testing seaborne Eve or Laythe bases/stations much easier without resorting to hyperedit.

[KerikBalm]

Given the lack of appropriate landing gear for 0.625m spaceplanes... I'm forced to make 0.625m spaceplanes that land on water... and launch them from a decoupling cart. It would be nice to have them directly launch into the water (although I'd have to make sure they can take off from water in addition to land on it)... and it would be nice to have a place where watercraft can be recovered for 100%.

They've made improvements to water... sea planes, and sea-SSTO planes are a thing.

Submarines are even a thing.

With just simple text file modding (duplicated the goliath, then rescaled it to 1.25 and turned into an electric fan), I made this, which is otherwise stock:

http://i.imgur.com/iyRVt0U.png

http://i.imgur.com/bAMJVMl.png

http://i.imgur.com/qDSxYLa.png

http://i.imgur.com/v5ENaz9.png

 

Now... a dock doesn't help me explore the oceans of other worlds at all... I'll need to figure out a way to get boats and such and stuff into space, and then a safe way to drop themfrom orbit...

But it would certainly help test... although the testing won't be pricese as the densities are different for different oceans... but... watercraft are part of my spaceprogram.

[kBob]

It would make quick tests of amphibious planes easier too (that's my next project after I accidently discovered my tier 4 plane also works as a boat up to 20m/s, but it would have to taxi back to land to take off).

[pandaman]

Yes,  I'd like to see a KSC 'water launch' facility as an extra option.  For all the reasons listed above.

It just makes some sense, now we have actual buoyancy as a 'thing' we can use to explore the 'wet bits' in the solar system, to enable us to launch and test such vessels directly.   Naturally this won't solve the 'getting them to the destination' issue,  but that's a different design problem. .

[322997am]

And I also want a strip of water near the runway, because seaplanes and emergency ditchings. Like this:

 

http://imgur.com/o6HWynC

[Kerbalstar]

10 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

 

With just simple text file modding (duplicated the goliath, then rescaled it to 1.25 and turned into an electric fan)

 

I know how to mod the .cfg files of parts but I don't know how to rescale them how do you do that?

[Wjolcz]

Nope. This game is about rockets and doesn't have proper water physics.

I always wanted to take off from a carrier though, so if we got that instead it would be very cool.

[Panel]

40 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

Nope. This game is about rockets and doesn't have proper water physics.

It's a game about rockets, and doesn't have very good aerodynamic modeling. Who needs plane parts and the runway?

Seriously, though, this a good idea. I don't use hyperedit, so I always have found it hard to get my boats in the water. 

[Wjolcz]

1 minute ago, Panel said:

Who needs plane parts and the runway?

Planes and rockets are both meant to go up.

I get the argument about armosphere and all, but I also think that adding submarine parts and creating all the systems to make it work would be another thing the devs would have to deal with. I'm not discarding the idea. I just want the game to be finished first. I think career overhaul should be the priority now.

[KerikBalm]

3 hours ago, kerbalstar said:

I know how to mod the .cfg files of parts but I don't know how to rescale them how do you do that?

Its really really simple...

here's the start of my config:

Quote

PART
{
    name = EFan
    module = Part
    author = Porkjet
    MODEL
    {
        model = Squad/Parts/Engine/jetEngines/turboFanSize2
    }
    rescaleFactor = 0.5
    node_stack_top = 0.0, 2.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    node_attach = 0.0, -2.5, -1.2, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1
    CoMOffset = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
    TechRequired = heavyAerodynamics
    entryCost = 15000
    cost = 2600
    category = Engine
    subcategory = 0
    title = E-125 “Rotor” Electric Fan
    manufacturer = C7 Aerospace Division
    description = An electric fan for operation in gas or liquid fluids without requiring fuel or oxidizer. While not requiring fuel or an oxidizer, this fan requires a substantial supply of electricity, which may be supplied by a variety of sources, including fuel and oxidizer consuming cells.

That line in bold is all you need to add.

Note that it won't scale mass or thrust or fuel capacity/etc.... you have to edit those accordingly. It only scales the physical size.

[StrandedonEarth]

I haven't played with waterborne vehicles, and I don't use aircraft very often. That said, I can see how a drydock/shipyard facility would be useful, as well as a slipway or harbour to launch watercraft from (with an animation of a kerbal breaking a bottle of shampagne over the bow, possibly sinking it!). On Airfield Island, of course

Didn't the aircraft parts orginally start out as a mod? Perhaps a modder can make this work?

[Grenartia]

10 hours ago, Panel said:

It's a game about rockets, and doesn't have very good aerodynamic modeling. Who needs plane parts and the runway?

Seriously, though, this a good idea. I don't use hyperedit, so I always have found it hard to get my boats in the water. 

Its pretty much impossible without spending lots of time building a rover to take you to the shoreline, and then actually driving it to the shoreline. Unless you decide to airlift the watercraft, but that raises a whole new set of issues.

10 hours ago, Veeltch said:

Planes and rockets are both meant to go up.

I get the argument about armosphere and all, but I also think that adding submarine parts and creating all the systems to make it work would be another thing the devs would have to deal with. I'm not discarding the idea. I just want the game to be finished first. I think career overhaul should be the priority now.

Why, exactly, does career need to be overhauled?

6 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I haven't played with waterborne vehicles, and I don't use aircraft very often. That said, I can see how a drydock/shipyard facility would be useful, as well as a slipway or harbour to launch watercraft from (with an animation of a kerbal breaking a bottle of shampagne over the bow, possibly sinking it!). On Airfield Island, of course

Didn't the aircraft parts orginally start out as a mod? Perhaps a modder can make this work?

I don't get why people are suggesting this be located on Airfield Island. We can't even launch planes from it without landing there first.

And yes, if memory serves, aircraft parts originally were a mod. And we do have modders who've made boat and sub mods, so its certainly not outside the realm of possibility for Squad to bring them on board. 

[StrandedonEarth]

Just now, Grenartia said:

I don't get why people are suggesting this be located on Airfield Island.

Yeah, I guess I see your point. How about we put it in a perfectly kerbal position: at the end of the runway! You better get that bird airborne (or stopped if you just got it on the ground) or there's gonna be some fireworks!

[Grenartia]

11 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Yeah, I guess I see your point. How about we put it in a perfectly kerbal position: at the end of the runway! You better get that bird airborne (or stopped if you just got it on the ground) or there's gonna be some fireworks!

I actually like the suggestion @322997am made about a channel alongside the runway.

I think it would be best if the port and the channel were somewhere in between the VAB/Crawlerway/Launchpad and the runway. Make some use of that extra space. Alternatively, between R&D and the Tracking Station for the port, and have a water runway adjacent to the port and tracking center running to the shoreline, parallel to the main runway.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Grenartia

[Wjolcz]

2 hours ago, Grenartia said:

Why, exactly, does career need to be overhauled?

Because the system based on three resources is broken, strategies are useless and the contracts are random. Mission control doesn't control missions and the tech research works backwards (go places first, get better stuff later).

[kiwi1960]

A dock?

hmmmmm..... get the simple construction mod and build a unit near the water so anything you build with it ends up in the water when its completed... that trick can also be used for constructimg subs and boats on other worlds .... if you want a dock, get the maritime pack and park an aircraft carrier next to the land, there is your dock...

 

But having Squad build a port ala the Hanger where you build a ship and its launched is asking a bit too much.... BUT.... using the simple construction mod... some clever modder could actually build a work around for it....

 

Edited June 26, 2016 by kiwi1960

[Grenartia]

19 hours ago, Veeltch said:

Because the system based on three resources is broken, strategies are useless and the contracts are random. Mission control doesn't control missions and the tech research works backwards (go places first, get better stuff later).

I really never noticed half the stuff you've pointed out, and the other half either isn't a problem, or is an acceptable break from reality for the sake of gameplay.

18 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

A dock?

hmmmmm..... get the simple construction mod and build a unit near the water so anything you build with it ends up in the water when its completed... that trick can also be used for constructimg subs and boats on other worlds .... if you want a dock, get the maritime pack and park an aircraft carrier next to the land, there is your dock...

 

But having Squad build a port ala the Hanger where you build a ship and its launched is asking a bit too much.... BUT.... using the simple construction mod... some clever modder could actually build a work around for it....

 

I don't know anything about simple construction mod, and this is about suggesting something for stock, so you don't have to get a mod for it.

Also, simply "build an aircraft carrier and park it next to the land" does not a dock make.

[kiwi1960]

A dock is a dock!

KSP is about air craft, not water craft, so unless the modders help you, there won't be a squad inspired dock.

Simple reason, if a dock, then it opens the flood gates, people will want a space dock, as part of the game, and then maybe ICBM's for God knows what war....

So, again,if the modders do not help you, then you're simply going to be out of luck.

 

[KamenRiderzero1]

From an aesthetic standpoint it might be nice. The Kennedy Space Center has one for the SRB recovery boats, why shouldn't we have one at the Kerbal Space Center?

That famous view of launches with the countdown clock? taken next to the dock.

 

[Blaarkies]

1 hour ago, kiwi1960 said:

A dock is a dock!

KSP is about air craft, not water craft, so unless the modders help you, there won't be a squad inspired dock.

Simple reason, if a dock, then it opens the flood gates, people will want a space dock, as part of the game, and then maybe ICBM's for God knows what war....

So, again,if the modders do not help you, then you're simply going to be out of luck.

 

KSP is about air *SPACE*craft
...the problem is, you have to go through air to get to space, the game needs to model air correctly as well as space. Since air became half decent, SQUAD started going nuts about adding spaceplane parts because "Hey, it's already there...might as well just add wings". But how do we launch planes vertically?...fine, then they built a SPH.
...many updates later: Water is now a Newtonian fluid! Mostly because it looks and act way cooler for all the splash downs at the end of successful missions, but also for sea-planes...and hey, if I land my vtol upside down on it I can go underwater! ...

You see where the last part is going? The same happened with land vehicles...they started out as ONLY rovers, then came bigger and faster wheels. I don't agree with having full blown submarines, but tiny underwater "rovers" is a future plan to explore the oceans on Titan. So, any argument against The Dock is also an argument against planes, planetary bases, anything larger than curiosity...

[kiwi1960]

I meant "no" as in why would they want the hassle. As it stands, they have enough bugs to deal with without adding boats...

Let the modders have the headaches.

Mind you... it would be a nice feature to add.... even a mod would be nice. Maybe if a modder did a half decent job, given the constraints they faced (meaning, it would never be like the VAB for example) then they might incorporate it into the game... but I won't hold my breath.