[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12

[Murdabenne]

34 minutes ago, EnderKid2 said:

What is the difference between testing and using?

Using means you add it, and play your game. 

Testing means you have a set of things you need to do to make sure it works like it should.

Informally, using is playing, testing is deliberate and (hopefully) systematic.

[EnderKid2]

2 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

Did you just make the change directly or did you write a small module manager patch?

Directly because each part is going to want a different volume, unless you're fine with doing a bit of cheese and giving literally every part a packed volume of 1 liter or something.

[mikegarrison]

So I guess I'll describe what happened.

I haven't played this for a long time, and I remembered the old way where you just had the connector ports and a Kerbal would just create a link out of nowhere that connects them. (Is that a KIS functionality?)

So I sent an ISRU ship up to Minmus and landed a flying fuel tank next to it, but I had no way to connect them because I didn't include that fuel transfer part on either ship.

Then I launched a small probe that was basically just a locus for fuel transfer parts. I was able to connect both ships to it, but I couldn't transfer *through* the probe. Only to/from the probe, and it didn't have the right fuel tanks on it.

Then I realized I could use "docking" mode, and this worked, except when I went from timewarp back to normal time something glitched and the rigid connections did their phantom force thing and there were lots of explosions.

So I reverted to a previous save and decided I would try moving one of the fuel transfer parts from the probe to the ISRU ship, but experienced the problem described above that this is not listed as a "cargo part".

Also, somehow, I had another physics easing glitch and one of the fuel transfer parts was torn off the side of the probe. I couldn't pick it up or do anything with it, so it's still just sitting there.

Eventually I rehooked up the probe and the two ships, put them both in docked mode, created and transferred the fuel at high timewarp, and managed to untimewarp without anything blowing up. Then I undocked everything.

So I did manage to do what I wanted, but it was tricky and along the way I experienced some timewarp/physics artifacts.

Is there a technical reason why the code can't support a ship being the intermediary between two other ships for flexible-line fuel transfer, just acting like a pump rather than having a fuel tank of its own? In the end, the docked mode let me do this, but it risked those rigid physics issues.

[mikegarrison]

Well, I did add the cargo part module and it worked ... sort of. I did make the RTS-1 a cargo part, and the construction window now recognizes it as such, but I still can't pick it up for some reason.

edit: I can place, remove, and move to/from inventory now. But I still can't pick up the one sitting on the ground. Seems like perhaps that's an issue for the construction editor and not the part? (Maybe the problem is that it became its own root part, as "Minmus Drill 1 Debris", and therefore couldn't be put into inventory? Whatever the problem, I eventually just went to the tracking station and deleted it.)

Edited January 24, 2021 by mikegarrison

[mikegarrison]

ps. I wrote this little module manager patch:

@PART[KAS.RTS1]
{
	%MODULE[ModuleCargoPart]
	{
		packedVolume = 20
	}
}

I gave it 20 liters volume.

[HansAcker]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:33 AM, RuFLaSH said:

Now I know, in the VAB, you got the option to toggle crossfeed on and off by right-clicking on the decoupler. But now there's no such option even though it says it can but is turned off by default

As EnderKid said, it's not really a KAS issue. But while you're here, the option to use the crossfeed toggles in a career game requires unlocking the "Fuel Systems" node in the tech tree with science points (the same one that has the "External Fuel Duct". If that doesn't help, head over to the "Gameplay Questions and Tutorials"     .

[IgorZ]

3 hours ago, EnderKid2 said:

What is the difference between testing and using?

When testing, you just simulate a situation and then reload. I.e. the changes, possibly harmful, will be rolled back.

3 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

Cool thanks. I guess I'll try that. Did you just make the change directly or did you write a small module manager patch?

There is a patch for those who want doing tests. I strongly discourage you to use the stock system to manipulate KAS parts. If you absolutely need it, use KIS.

[IgorZ]

4 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

Is there a technical reason why the code can't support a ship being the intermediary between two other ships for flexible-line fuel transfer, just acting like a pump rather than having a fuel tank of its own? In the end, the docked mode let me do this, but it risked those rigid physics issues.

RTS part can only see resources at the immediate connected vessel. I.e. it's the owner vessel, and the target vessel. In your schema there are three vessels, with the probe in between. From both ends RTS can only see the probe, but not the other vessel on the other RTS part. That's why you cannot transfer fuel using the probe as a proxy. Switching to docking mode any of the two RTS parts would solve the problem. And if you put all the parts in this mode, then you'll end up with a single vessel. Keep in mind that in the undocked mode RTS doesn't automictically transfer fuel. If you want to connect ISRU  with the tanks, you need the docked mode. As for explosions, more information needed. RTS connection is flexible, so it should not trigger physics.

2 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

But I still can't pick up the one sitting on the ground. Seems like perhaps that's an issue for the construction editor and not the part? (Maybe the problem is that it became its own root part, as "Minmus Drill 1 Debris", and therefore couldn't be put into inventory?

The stock system can only pickup vessels of type "Dropped part". In your case it's "debris". This is a flaw of the stock system: if a part fells off your ship, you cannot put it back. The workaround is using KIS: put the part into  KIS inventory and then pull it out - this will fix the vessel type.

Edited January 25, 2021 by IgorZ

[mikegarrison]

7 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

RTS part can only see resources at the immediate connected vessel. I.e. it's the owner vessel, and the target vessel. In your schema there are three vessels, with the probe in between. From both ends RTS can only see the probe, but not the other vessel on the other RTS part. That's why you cannot transfer fuel using the probe as a proxy. Switching to docking mode any of the two RTS parts would solve the problem. And if you put all the parts in this mode, then you'll end up with a single vessel. Keep in mind that in the undocked mode RTS doesn't automictically transfer fuel. If you want to connect ISRU  with the tanks, you need the docked mode. As for explosions, more information needed. RTS connection is flexible, so it should not trigger physics.

The stock system can only pickup vessels of type "Dropped part". In your case it's "debris". This is a flaw of the stock system: if a part fells off your ship, you cannot put it back. The workaround is using KIS: put the part into  KIS inventory and then pull it out - this will fix the vessel type.

Thanks.

The explosions happened after I used "docking mode".

The ISRU is touchy. I had an ISRU ship which only used liquid fuel, oxidizer, and monoprop. I had the probe, which only used monoprop. And then I had the docked tank ship, which was entirely LH2 and oxidizer. The ISRU would refuse to make LH2 even with the flexible RTS attachment, because it couldn't see an LH2 tank on its own ship. Eventually in order to convince the ISRU to even make LH2 at all, I had to put them all into docked mode.

[IgorZ]

14 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

Eventually in order to convince the ISRU to even make LH2 at all, I had to put them all into docked mode.

Yup, this is what I stated above. ISRU only deals with the tanks on the same vessel. RTS in the undocked mode doesn't join two vessels into one.

As for the explosion. Can you recontsruct this situation and make a video and capture the logs? Flexible links reduce the probability of Kraken, but still not solve the problem entirely since when you join vessels the CoM changes. One guess is that the heavy mass of the tank shifted to the probe which weak landing legs/wheels didn't survive.

[mikegarrison]

18 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Yup, this is what I stated above. ISRU only deals with the tanks on the same vessel. RTS in the undocked mode doesn't join two vessels into one.

As for the explosion. Can you recontsruct this situation and make a video and capture the logs? Flexible links reduce the probability of Kraken, but still not solve the problem entirely since when you join vessels the CoM changes. One guess is that the heavy mass of the tank shifted to the probe which weak landing legs/wheels didn't survive.

No, sorry. I've kind of moved on from there. I don't even have the tanker on-planet anymore.

What happened, I think, was a base-game bug more than anything else. I was in high timewarp (1000x, something like that) and I stepped down to zero time-warp physics very quickly. In fact, IIRC I hit "x" and canceled out of it. I think one or more of the ships jumped up in the air, and with them all rigidly attached, bad things happened.

When I tried it again I deliberately stepped the timewarp down one step at a time, and the "physics easing" seemed to be able to handle it better.

[TomfooleryYT]

is this the mod that gives kerbals the ability to disassemble parts of a spacecraft in 1.8.1?

[IgorZ]

4 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

I think one or more of the ships jumped up in the air, and with them all rigidly attached, bad things happened.

RTS does NOT create a rigid attachment, the joint is always flexible no matter if the mode was docked or undocked. Which part did you use to attach the vessels?

4 hours ago, TomfooleryYT said:

is this the mod that gives kerbals the ability to disassemble parts of a spacecraft in 1.8.1?

It's KIS.

[vardicd]

On 1/24/2021 at 6:33 PM, IgorZ said:

The stock system can only pickup vessels of type "Dropped part". In your case it's "debris". This is a flaw of the stock system: if a part fells off your ship, you cannot put it back.

Looks like today's patch fixes that:

* Allow pickup of debris parts in EVA construction mode.

[Bombaatu]

I ran into two problems in using KAS with 1.11 & 1.11.1.

1. I put a Kerbal on EVA on the Mun - he had the electric screwdriver & an EVA fuel bottle in his inventory. He could not lift off the surface with his EVA pack. Thrusting up while jumping would (barely) allow him to maintain altitude but he could not gain. When I dropped the screwdriver & eva bottle, normal functioning returned.

2. I could pick up the screwdriver but could not subsequently put it into the Kerbal's KIS inventory.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

Ok. I just updated to KSP 1.11

The main restriction is that I cannot use these parts with stock inventory, correct?

[Lisias]

Just now, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Ok. I just updated to KSP 1.11

The main restriction is that I cannot use these parts with stock inventory, correct?

May I suggest a patch switching the stock inventory support for KAS/KIS? (and vice versa, so the user can choose what support to use).

I think we don't need to have a zero sum game on this, there're real value on both approaches.

[Tacombel]

2 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

I ran into two problems in using KAS with 1.11 & 1.11.1.

1. I put a Kerbal on EVA on the Mun - he had the electric screwdriver & an EVA fuel bottle in his inventory. He could not lift off the surface with his EVA pack. Thrusting up while jumping would (barely) allow him to maintain altitude but he could not gain. When I dropped the screwdriver & eva bottle, normal functioning returned.

2. I could pick up the screwdriver but could not subsequently put it into the Kerbal's KIS inventory.

Yes, I have the same problem. Although once I jump is nearly normal. 

[annihilator hd]

Anyone had any luck getting the magnet to work in 1.7? (I'm aware this part is no longer supported)

Just wondering if anyone had and if they could share how if that was the case.

I've been away from KSP for around 2 years and the winch/magnet was always my favourite for making little cranes and crafts that utilised the winch and magnet combo. 

 Thank you, please don't be mad asking about unsuported parts, ya boi just needs his lockdown fix of KSP cranes

[IgorZ]

On 1/31/2021 at 9:16 AM, Bombaatu said:

I ran into two problems in using KAS with 1.11 & 1.11.1.

1. I put a Kerbal on EVA on the Mun - he had the electric screwdriver & an EVA fuel bottle in his inventory. He could not lift off the surface with his EVA pack. Thrusting up while jumping would (barely) allow him to maintain altitude but he could not gain. When I dropped the screwdriver & eva bottle, normal functioning returned.

2. I could pick up the screwdriver but could not subsequently put it into the Kerbal's KIS inventory.

The screwdriver and the spare tank are from KIS mod, not KAS. Please, make a post in the relevant thread with the screenshots and/or video and a log.

[luisitoISS]

This may be silly but hey, I have to say it (I don't know if it was previously reported) Also clarify that my version is 1.9

I also had a problem with KAS, and the truth is something annoying for me.

When I want to use the resource transfer tubes, the option of unless kerbal can grab the tube does not appear; Wow, no menu appears when I right click!.

 

I had other mods like Deadly Reentry, Pathfinder, and MKS, but I removed them from the GameData to see if this error could be solved, but I don't think I was successful.

 

PS: those mods, add the menu other functions, and I think that, but it seems strange to me.

Edit: Here is a video of the problem about the resource tubes; while the rest works perfectly.

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by luisitoISS
I forgot I had this video xd

[Taco Salad]

I have a very similar bug to the previous poster. I can right click the resource tubes, but there's no option to start a connection.

[Guest]

Will this mod ever be updated to support the 1.11 stock inventory? I would love to do that  

[IgorZ]

On 2/3/2021 at 5:53 AM, luisitoISS said:

Wow, no menu appears when I right click!.

 

On 2/11/2021 at 6:50 PM, Taco Salad said:

I have a very similar bug to the previous poster. I can right click the resource tubes, but there's no option to start a connection.

This is how this mod works for more than 1.5 years now. You cannot connect two JS-1 without a hack, JS-1 is only a receptacle for other parts like RTS, JS, TB, etc. Browse this forum back in time and you find the discussions, as well a workaround to bring back the legacy behavior.

7 hours ago, SpaceX_Boi said:

Will this mod ever be updated to support the 1.11 stock inventory? I would love to do that  

If you think you can do that by simply adding a cargo module to the KAS parts, you're wrong. TL;TD; KAS is not compatible at the code level. There was a post couple of pages ago that explains it.

[EnderKid2]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

If you think you can do that by simply adding a cargo module to the KAS parts, you're wrong.

I mean, if you do that you can stick them in stock cargo containers and manipulate them with the stock system, which is enough to get the functionality I need (refueling craft without having to dock)