[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12

[Altaica]

since i updated to 1.6.1, i have the problem that my kerbals cannot grab the connector of a winch anymore, so i have serious problems refueling my space crafts. has anyone else expirienced such issue?

[Espatie]

There's a couple of reports in the Surface Experiment Pack thread of Linking not working. I've not experienced a problem myself though.

[Tonka Crash]

1 hour ago, Altaica said:

since i updated to 1.6.1, i have the problem that my kerbals cannot grab the connector of a winch anymore, so i have serious problems refueling my space crafts. has anyone else expirienced such issue?

The winch is not used for resource transfers. The RTS-1 (red part with yellow hose) is used to transfer resources and it's been working fine in 1.6.1. 

[derpotamus]

How does one chain a resource transfer over multiple ground pylons?

E.g. resource transfer between two vessels a considerable distance away from each other on a surface.

With a configuration like the screenshot below, it doesn't let me transfer anything because it thinks it is only attached to the next pylon:

https://imgur.com/a/EDAucZn

Edited February 23, 2019 by derpotamus
embed image

[taniwha]

@derpotamus: I am not sure I have tested it, but I think (link) EL's resource manager would do the right thing in that situation. I do know I wrote the relevant code to be fully recursive. To get at EL's resource manager, right-click EL's app-button. The resources will be divided up into modules (based on docking ports, decouplers and KAS links), symmetry is respected and transfers are balanced.

[IgorZ]

10 hours ago, derpotamus said:

How does one chain a resource transfer over multiple ground pylons?

E.g. resource transfer between two vessels a considerable distance away from each other on a surface.

With a configuration like the screenshot below, it doesn't let me transfer anything because it thinks it is only attached to the next pylon:

https://imgur.com/a/EDAucZn

For now the only way is docking the pylons. I was thinking about recursively following the KAS links but figured the GUI may become over complicated and confusing. So this feature is not in the roadmap for now. In your setup it seems the right-nist vessel is a mobile one, so dock all the vessel to the left so that there is only one RTS that is not in the docking mode.

On 2/21/2019 at 3:15 PM, Altaica said:

since i updated to 1.6.1, i have the problem that my kerbals cannot grab the connector of a winch anymore, so i have serious problems refueling my space crafts. has anyone else expirienced such issue?

What is the exact name of the winch you're using? Every part has a unique name, and in this case it's a big deal to know the right one.

[Altaica]

On 2/22/2019 at 2:10 AM, Tonka Crash said:

The winch is not used for resource transfers. The RTS-1 (red part with yellow hose) is used to transfer resources and it's been working fine in 1.6.1. 

thank you for that info. tested it and it works, also i need another port for my tanker too. i think i can refit my tech, also its a lil bit annoying ^.^;

still grabing the winches connector doen't work, so this remains an issue.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Altaica

[IgorZ]

On 6/27/2016 at 2:38 AM, IgorZ said:

The support will be completely discontinued on February 1st, 2019.

Reading Reddit, I figured out some of the legacy parts are broken in 1.6.1. At least for some players. Just wanted to bring up to your attention the disclaimer.

[IgorZ]

10 hours ago, Altaica said:

still grabing the winches connector doen't work, so this remains an issue.

You've said RTS worked for you. Can you grab the connector from RTS? Are you sure you're not using the legacy parts?

[dronkit]

@IgorZ So since Feb 1 the Legacy parts are not supported, meaning future versions will not have them, right? But KAS will still be active? Will there be a 1.6.1 compatible version on CKAN? Will the latest one work now on 1.6.1 if I installed it manually? thanks for your work!

Edited February 25, 2019 by dronkit

[IgorZ]

8 minutes ago, dronkit said:

@IgorZ So since Feb 1 the Legacy parts are not supported, meaning future versions will not have them, right? But KAS will still be active? Will there be a 1.6.1 compatible version on CKAN? Will the latest one work now on 1.6.1 if I installed it manually? thanks for your work!

Indeed, there will be a compatible version for 1.6.1 for the new parts. As well as for the further versions of the nw parts. However, the legacy parts won't be supplied in the versions going forward.

[L0ck0n]

Great mod!

Are you planning on adding longer versions of telescopic joints and tow bars in future (maybe like 10 meters long). Because now its kinda hard to tow and turn with very big vehicle. "Legacy connector port" allows to connect things at bigger ranges, but well, its legacy part. Winch allows to connect distant objects, but then you cant turn them into single vessel.

Edited February 26, 2019 by L0ck0n

[IgorZ]

5 hours ago, L0ck0n said:

Are you planning on adding longer versions of telescopic joints and tow bars in future (maybe like 10 meters long)

I didn't have an idea to extend the telescopic pipes distance, but it can be done. For any part in KAS three conditions must be met:

1. There must be a clear usecase of how this part is going to be used.
2. The existing parts should not provide the same functionality.
3. The new part must be physically realistic. E.g. if you want to create 200m of steel pipe, you need to explain how this amount of steel is packed into the part (I've intentionally amplified the scale to show the main problem, usually people need only 50m).

The existing telescopic pipes can be extended up to the limit (there is a physical one). E.g. you can easily add 2-3 extra sections into the existing part designs and get extra 1-1.5m of the length. There will be a problem of getting 30m though.

5 hours ago, L0ck0n said:

Because now its kinda hard to tow and turn with very big vehicle

This is a new usecase. Could you please give a screenshot? The towbar is just a hinge connection, which is intended to be placed between the tow truck and the towed vessel's closest point (which you assume is the best one for towing). It's hard for me to imagine why the existing part doesn't fit for towing of the large vessels.

5 hours ago, L0ck0n said:

Winch allows to connect distant objects, but then you cant turn them into single vessel.

Main question here: do you really need to? KSP in general doesn't like large vessels that are connected via rigid joints (like the dock ports). Winch and RTS parts allow to connect the vessels without creating a rigid joint, which is considered a big huge feature, but you state it's a disadvantage    I try to understand why. Maybe, you simply misuse the new KAS, following the old KAS pattern? In the new KAS when you need to pull a vessel, you use winch. Why would you need docking it in this case? When you only need refueling, you use RTS. This part allows transferring resources without docking, and if you really need it, you still can dock. What is your usecase?

Edited February 27, 2019 by IgorZ

[infinite_monkey]

Is there a module that allows parts to be attached without a Kerbal? I try to perpare a base just using Landers and Rovers before sending up Kerbals. E.g. I want to tow stuff around, or I got a fuel factory and want to connect it to a tank using RTS.

[taniwha]

@infinite_monkey yeah, it's called ModuleDockingNode and it is present in stock KSP.

[L0ck0n]

15 hours ago, IgorZ said:

I didn't have an idea to extend the telescopic pipes distance, but it can be done. For any part in KAS three conditions must be met:

1. There must be a clear usecase of how this part is going to be used.
2. The existing parts should not provide the same functionality.
3. The new part must be physically realistic. E.g. if you want to create 200m of steel pipe, you need to explain how this amount of steel is packed into the part (I've intentionally amplified the scale to show the main problem, usually people need only 50m).

The existing telescopic pipes can be extended up to the limit (there is a physical one). E.g. you can easily add 2-3 extra sections into the existing part designs and get extra 1-1.5m of the length. There will be a problem of getting 30m though.

This is a new usecase. Could you please give a screenshot? The towbar is just a hinge connection, which is intended to be placed between the tow truck and the towed vessel's closest point (which you assume is the best one for towing). It's hard for me to imagine why the existing part doesn't fit for towing of the large vessels.

Main question here: do you really need to? KSP in general doesn't like large vessels that are connected via rigid joints (like the dock ports). Winch and RTS parts allow to connect the vessels without creating a rigid joint, which is considered a big huge feature, but you state it's a disadvantage    I try to understand why. Maybe, you simply misuse the new KAS, following the old KAS pattern? In the new KAS when you need to pull a vessel, you use winch. Why would you need docking it in this case? When you only need refueling, you use RTS. This part allows transferring resources without docking, and if you really need it, you still can dock. What is your usecase?

Thx for reply

Longer struts/parts will help with turning when towing large vessels example:

Spoiler

 

Now its hard because parts collide with each other because strut is too short.

Also im thinking about using KAS with other mods, for example you can join vessels with parts from BDarmoy and almost build military base (rigid joints needed), exasmple:

Spoiler

These joints are kinda short. Now with legacy parts:

Spoiler

When you join vessels with rigid joint, they act like one vessel, so you can transfer crew or command them all.

[infinite_monkey]

3 minutes ago, taniwha said:

@infinite_monkey yeah, it's called ModuleDockingNode and it is present in stock KSP.

After checking what it does - that's a docking port. Not really what I meant, since I would need to add it to every part I want to connect. I was thinking of something like ModuleKISPickup.

[DStaal]

11 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

After checking what it does - that's a docking port. Not really what I meant, since I would need to add it to every part I want to connect. I was thinking of something like ModuleKISPickup.

Check out Konstruction - if you use their docking ports, you can compress them and lock everything together when you're done.  It also has some cranes/forklifts that can be built into rovers to put things together.  (And if you have a Kerbal nearby can help them lift parts for KIS.)

 

[infinite_monkey]

19 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Check out Konstruction - if you use their docking ports, you can compress them and lock everything together when you're done.  It also has some cranes/forklifts that can be built into rovers to put things together.  (And if you have a Kerbal nearby can help them lift parts for KIS.)

Yes I know, that is where ModuleKISPickup is from. If a part has KIS storage AND ModuleKISPickup, you can even place stuff from the inventory near that part without a Kerbal. What I wanted is something similar, so I can e.g. use a winch for a crane or refuel a rover without the need of a Kerbal standing next to it. But I think I'll just predend Bill is a robot...

[DStaal]

2 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

Yes I know, that is where ModuleKISPickup is from. If a part has KIS storage AND ModuleKISPickup, you can even place stuff from the inventory near that part without a Kerbal. What I wanted is something similar, so I can e.g. use a winch for a crane or refuel a rover without the need of a Kerbal standing next to it. But I think I'll just predend Bill is a robot...

The parts actually *have* ModuleKISPickup - but no ability to wield tools, and no storage.

If you send sub-assemblies with Konstruction ports instead of docks, you'll be able to do without Bill in most cases...

[infinite_monkey]

2 minutes ago, DStaal said:

The parts actually *have* ModuleKISPickup - but no ability to wield tools, and no storage.

If you send sub-assemblies with Konstruction ports instead of docks, you'll be able to do without Bill in most cases...

Except it doesn't help with refueling or a crane. The claw might be a better choice for that.

[DStaal]

25 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

Except it doesn't help with refueling or a crane. The claw might be a better choice for that.

Or check out the cranes that come with the mod.

[infinite_monkey]

9 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Or check out the cranes that come with the mod.

Unfortunately, the crane's magnet kept doing funny things... the part I was lifting up started to rotate slowly, until it was upside down... So the KAS winch together with a battery, a pod and the claw (both scaled down) make for a better crane... A little cumbersome, as you need to switch vessels all the time, but better than the one from Konstruction.

[taniwha]

2 hours ago, infinite_monkey said:

After checking what it does - that's a docking port. Not really what I meant, since I would need to add it to every part I want to connect. I was thinking of something like ModuleKISPickup.

I knew it wasn't at all what you meant. My point is that if you want automated construction you need to plan ahead and put docking ports where you want to connect two sections. My understanding is that KAS (and KIS), like some other mods (eg, EL), is strongly oriented towards giving kerbals a bigger role in the game.

However, there is another option (with its own caveats): Extraplanetary Launchpads has a construction drone part and disposable pads. You still need to plan ahead and add the pads to points from which you wish to extend your facility, and you need to find a way to get a supply of rocket parts to the construction drone(s), but the pads will be replaced by the newly built segments.

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, infinite_monkey said:

Unfortunately, the crane's magnet kept doing funny things... the part I was lifting up started to rotate slowly, until it was upside down... So the KAS winch together with a battery, a pod and the claw (both scaled down) make for a better crane... A little cumbersome, as you need to switch vessels all the time, but better than the one from Konstruction.

I'll admit I've had that issue.  In theory there are parts in the mod to help with that - I haven't always gotten them to work.

Either way, the construction ports instead of docking ports will likely help.