Make Synchronized Satellite Networks Easy

[cubinator]

I've been playing with Remote Tech lately, and setting up a comms network that stays in one spot for a long time is pretty hard without something like MechJeb. With the addition of a stock communication mechanic, I assume it will be necessary to make similar networks. Maybe once a satellite has been moved into the desired position it can be 'locked' into that position relative to the other sats in the network? It would skimp on realism of the orbital mechanics, but essentially what it would do is once a satellite is in a similar orbit (as precisely as the game currently defines orbits for "put a ship in this orbit" contracts, with a little leeway) to another satellite in that network*, it would automatically be teleported into a perfectly synchronized orbit with that satellite. It would be a bit harder than a normal "Put a sat in this orbit" contract, because the comms sats would have to be placed into a specific place in the orbit** (for the first sat this wouldn't matter). All sat locations would be shown in the map view and predefined based on the first sat in the network. If the first sat was placed in an eccentric orbit, the spots for the other sats would be shown moving in the map view/tracking station moving along their orbits as the sat would making a flower shape.

*The player would create a network with a button in the probe core/command pod's right-click menu, such as: [Add to Network]. Clicking on it would open a box where you could a) name a new network to put the satellite in and define how many satellites will be in that network or b) select a network from a list of networks previously created via method (a). Additional mechanics could be implemented so that more complex networks like synchronized Kolniya orbits or highly inclined orbits would be possible.

**That spot could be selectable as a target so that one could use a maneuver node to find an encounter with it.

I think the above points would be very useful to implement in 1.2, considering that it will be necessary to build working, long-lasting communication networks in the stock game, and it's no use having a stock feature that needs a mod like MechJeb or Hyperedit to work correctly. If a mechanic to make timewarp-safe comms networks is already in progress at Squad, please let me know and this might become a discussion thread on that mechanic instead of the one I am proposing.

Edited July 21, 2016 by cubinator

[Superfluous J]

52 minutes ago, cubinator said:

With the addition of a stock communication mechanic, I assume it will be necessary to make similar networks.

We'll need @RoverDude to confirm this but I'm pretty sure you will NOT need to make similar networks, or at the very least not as EXTENSIVE of networks. I do know for a fact that you won't need to make that default Kerbin network that everybody makes in RemoteTech, because you're not going to be limited to needing to talk directly to KSC.

[AlamoVampire]

I recall mention of it being like Earths Deep Space Network or something like that. So, IF I am right, complex arrays and the like should be not necessary. That being said, IF you want to make such a network for comforts sake, then, well, thats up the each of us I suppose. Could be wrong and ya, as 5th said, Rover will need to confirm, deny or explain lol

[StahnAileron]

This was something that irked me as well since I like playing with RT (gives me a sense of purpose for a little while). However, if anything, I'd rather leave it to mods to handle this. In the long run, the stability of a satellite constellation is really dependent on son the orbital period. Granted, getting precise data on a vessel's Orbital Period (on the go, at any rate) requires a mod. But if you're running RT, you probably have MJ and KER as well anyway. I can't see the stock comm system being as complex as RT. As such, I as others mentioned, I do foresee the need for complex comsat constellations. Again, a dev would need to chime in to be sure.

Personally, I would like to see an auto-pilot mode in MJ that will match a target's orbit with an angle offset. (Or in other words, Rendezvous with Target + Phase Angle Offset.) To date, my best constellations have been N-satellites on one launch with the lifter thrown into an elliptical orbit in near-perfect N-1:N resonance with the target orbit (of which the lifter's AP is set at.) Most precise way I've been able to get evenly-spaced networks up. N is usually 3. (I toyed with the idea of a 5-point network around Kerbin. Mainly because the comm lines would make a 5-pointed star with the DTS-M1 at Geosynchronous altitude and pentagram if I added Comm32s as well, so it would both look cool and have absurd redundancy for no reason ^_~)

[cubinator]

For the record, I don't use KER or Mechjeb, and always play with a calculator on hand. (Like, if it's not on my desk next to me, I will stop and go look for it before continuing.) I think if they're going to make it necessary to make sat constellations they ought to make it easier to do so in the stock game. If the comms system turns out not to need that then it should be fine as is. As it's still unclear exactly how the system will operate, and whether a mechanic is already being put in place, this thread is still only speculative, unless a dev were to chime in.

As for what I'm going to do with my game right now, I'll Hyperedit the sats into perfect orbits after launching them into near-perfect orbits manually. I can justify it because real sats keep their position much better than stock KSP sats, and I've already launched them with a perfectly clean, non-cheaty lifter.

Edited July 21, 2016 by cubinator
On the workaround

[Alshain]

On 7/20/2016 at 9:28 PM, 5thHorseman said:

We'll need @RoverDude to confirm this but I'm pretty sure you will NOT need to make similar networks, or at the very least not as EXTENSIVE of networks. I do know for a fact that you won't need to make that default Kerbin network that everybody makes in RemoteTech, because you're not going to be limited to needing to talk directly to KSC.

As far as I understand it, you will but not around Kerbin.  Planetary obstruction is still going to exist but Kerbin will have ground stations.  That means you will need a network as close as the Mun if you don't want to lose communications on the back side of it, especially given that the Mun is tidally locked so anything landed on the surface facing away from Kerbin will be unable to directly communicate with KSC without a network (ever!)  Depending on where you are going, the Kerbin Ground Stations could be blocked by the Mun or Minimus so you may even find it necessary to put networks beyond their orbits.  However, anything inside the Mun will be pretty much guaranteed to be able to communicate, assuming I understood correctly.

EDIT: Oh, and also signal delay won't exist, nor the flight computer.

On 7/20/2016 at 10:17 PM, cubinator said:

For the record, I don't use KER or Mechjeb, and always play with a calculator on hand. (Like, if it's not on my desk next to me, I will stop and go look for it before continuing.) I think if they're going to make it necessary to make sat constellations they ought to make it easier to do so in the stock game. If the comms system turns out not to need that then it should be fine as is. As it's still unclear exactly how the system will operate, and whether a mechanic is already being put in place, this thread is still only speculative, unless a dev were to chime in.

As for what I'm going to do with my game right now, I'll Hyperedit the sats into perfect orbits after launching them into near-perfect orbits manually. I can justify it because real sats keep their position much better than stock KSP sats, and I've already launched them with a perfectly clean, non-cheaty lifter.

All they need to do to make it easier is add a display that tells you the orbital period of your current craft.  That is all you need.  If you have that data you can make a network that will take a very very long time to move out of sync (assuming you have the knowledge and skill).  Right now, RT users rely on KER or MechJeb to give us that.  I do find it interesting you are willing to use HyperEdit but not KER,  however I do agree the stock game should offer more information.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Alshain

[DDE]

Honestly, I just always cheat and edit the save file even with MechJeb.

[tater]

It would be unrealistic to have anything like RT, anyway. DSN uses large, terrestrial dishes. It's all about aperture (light gathering). TDRSS looks down, not up.

A better, simplistic mechanic would be for the tracking station to only be at KSC to start. Upgrades would add stations around Kerbin. LKO would result in some LOS, but depending upon the geometry, there might be an ideal LKO of at least XXX km for total coverage. Further upgrades could produce a DSN, at which point all that matters is LOS to Kerbin.

[Alshain]

9 hours ago, tater said:

It would be unrealistic to have anything like RT, anyway. DSN uses large, terrestrial dishes. It's all about aperture (light gathering). TDRSS looks down, not up.

So does RemoteTech, you just have to either build them yourself from the VAB/SPH and drive them/land them, or configure the ground stations for it in the configuration.  If you are using KerbinSide you can even have real representations of them.  RT will basically be the realistic mode while the stock is going to be much more simplistic.

[tater]

The idea that you'd ever need to set up satellite relays for deep space comms didn't seem very realistic to me at all. Once kerbin has dishes all over (I frankly lack the will to build a contraption to land a 90m dish someplace), then any other stuff should be unneeded, right? I looked into it,a nd even had it installed, but it seemed more tedious than realistic to me... particularly since there is nothing at all on the Kerbol system that even counts as deep space, Eeloo is inside the orbit of Venus.

[Alshain]

@tater It's just not automatically configured, but it can do that.  Here is my configuration for KerbinSide (which actually doesn't require KerbinSide).  You can start with that and increase the ranges to your liking.