[1.2] Shuttle Payload Technologies v0.2 - Spacelab Released!

[MrMeeb]

18 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Aw, I love your designs but don't want to install DIRECT. I suppose I'll just have to knuckle under? What assets does this use from DIRECT?

What @JoseEduardo said. If you don't have DIRECT installed, my edited parts won't show up. No problem, if you don't want them!

Little to show in progress at the moment. I have completed Spacelab, and I'm in the process of UV Unwrapping the tunnel segments. I don't think it will take too much longer, and hopefully nor will texturing. Unfortunately, I'm going away for 3 weeks on Saturday, so I won't have any opportunity to work on anything while I'm gone. I've set myself a personal goal for release, but if I don't think the parts are ready, you'll just have to wait.

I know it's fairly similar to the picture I posted last, but now it (badly) spins!

[cxg2827]

You whipped that up pretty quickly. Great texturing too!

So, you gonna dive into making IVAs for the lab and tunnels as well?

[Turk_WLF]

This looks very interesting

[Avalon304]

Hey, MrMeeb, 0.1.2 is prompting me to download 0.1.2, I think your AVC file is not updated.

[SpaceBadger007]

12 hours ago, MrMeeb said:

What @JoseEduardo said. If you don't have DIRECT installed, my edited parts won't show up. No problem, if you don't want them!

Little to show in progress at the moment. I have completed Spacelab, and I'm in the process of UV Unwrapping the tunnel segments. I don't think it will take too much longer, and hopefully nor will texturing. Unfortunately, I'm going away for 3 weeks on Saturday, so I won't have any opportunity to work on anything while I'm gone. I've set myself a personal goal for release, but if I don't think the parts are ready, you'll just have to wait.

I know it's fairly similar to the picture I posted last, but now it (badly) spins!

Looking fantastic! just a question on how will it function? Will it work like the stock MPL or will lean towards what MOLE does with bringing up experiments and returning them for science?

[White Owl]

17 hours ago, SpaceBadger007 said:

Looking fantastic! just a question on how will it function? Will it work like the stock MPL or will lean towards what MOLE does with bringing up experiments and returning them for science?

I've often thought that STS-style payload return capabilities could be made to work well in a career game, if a mod added large science experiment modules that had to be returned to Kerbin. Shuttles would make a lot of sense that way. But I suppose that may be out of the scope of this particular mod.

[MrMeeb]

On 3 August 2016 at 10:13 PM, cxg2827 said:

You whipped that up pretty quickly. Great texturing too!

So, you gonna dive into making IVAs for the lab and tunnels as well?

Thanks! That's what happens when you combine summer holidays with procrastination from other responsibilities  

I am definitely interested by an IVA for Spacelab. Tunnels seem a bit pointless seeing as they're purely cosmetic. Either way, I think it'll wait, because I'd like to focus on getting more parts out, as that's better general practice for now

On 4 August 2016 at 9:58 AM, Avalon304 said:

Hey, MrMeeb, 0.1.2 is prompting me to download 0.1.2, I think your AVC file is not updated.

Oops! Looks like I misunderstood how the .version file works. I'll fix it in the next update.

23 hours ago, SpaceBadger007 said:

Looking fantastic! just a question on how will it function? Will it work like the stock MPL or will lean towards what MOLE does with bringing up experiments and returning them for science?

I've talked with a few people about this and we decided that it would be cool if it could function as both an MPL and have some runnable experiments, seeing as that's how the real one functioned. That way you can always be generating science from the whole 'living in space' stuff, but you can also refine other experiments you bring up with you on a Spacelab pallet for example (that's how the MPL works, right? Never used it myself)

6 hours ago, White Owl said:

I've often thought that STS-style payload return capabilities could be made to work well in a career game, if a mod added large science experiment modules that had to be returned to Kerbin. Shuttles would make a lot of sense that way. But I suppose that may be out of the scope of this particular mod.

I actually think that might be in the scope of this mod  I could totally make a selection of experiments for @Pak's Spacelab-esque pallet that's on the way that offer little transmission reward but a lot on return. Or were you thinking of something even bigger? 

[SpaceBadger007]

56 minutes ago, MrMeeb said:

I've talked with a few people about this and we decided that it would be cool if it could function as both an MPL and have some runnable experiments, seeing as that's how the real one functioned. That way you can always be generating science from the whole 'living in space' stuff, but you can also refine other experiments you bring up with you on a Spacelab pallet for example (that's how the MPL works, right? Never used it myself)

Sounds awesome!

 

[White Owl]

When I wrote that, I was thinking specifically of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility): Link

A ten ton package of scientific experiments deployed into orbit by Challenger in 1984, then recovered by Columbia in 1990.

And while thinking about the LDEF, I was also looking at the Station Science mod: Link

It occurred to me that a mod combining the useful science modules of Station Science with the real-life benefits of the LDEF would be perfect for career mode space shuttles in the game. Require some 2.5m, multi-ton payloads to be returned to Kerbin for big science gains.

Then it occurred to me that it's probably asking a whooole lot! 

Edited August 5, 2016 by White Owl
wrong shuttle. derp

[MrMeeb]

4 minutes ago, White Owl said:

When I wrote that, I was thinking specifically of the LDEF (Long Duration Exposure Facility): Link

A ten ton package of scientific experiments deployed into orbit by Challenger in 1984, then recovered by Columbia in 1990.

And while thinking about the LDEF, I was also looking at the Station Science mod: Link

It occurred to me that a mod combining the useful science modules of Station Science with the real-life benefits of the LDEF would be perfect for career mode space shuttles in the game. Require some 2.5m, multi-ton payloads to be returned to Kerbin for big science gains.

Then it occurred to me that it's probably asking a whooole lot! 

Ah, interesting! So almost something like a build-your-own LDEF from a selection of different experiment packaged, as dictated by the contract, deploy it, and then recover it for another contract later? 

Is it even possible to have a contract that is toggled a certain amount of time after the completion of another contract?

[White Owl]

I don't know about stock contracts... never use 'em myself. But Contract Configurator  does exactly that, and a lot more.

Come to think of it... I bet I could look at Station Science and figure out what definitions to change to get exactly what I'm looking for.

[MrMeeb]

13 minutes ago, White Owl said:

I don't know about stock contracts... never use 'em myself. But Contract Configurator  does exactly that, and a lot more.

Come to think of it... I bet I could look at Station Science and figure out what definitions to change to get exactly what I'm looking for.

I can totally do that. I'm still not entirely sure where Station Science comes into this still though, probably for lack of knowledge on the mod. What exactly do you have in mind?

[White Owl]

You're right; Station Science isn't necessary at all for the idea. It was only in my head because I was looking at that mod and thinking about how to do something similar to make science better for shuttles.

For a shuttle-specific science system, all you need is experiments that profit more when returned. Preferably, experiments that are large and/or delicate enough to make traditional reentry via heat shield and parachute unattractive. So yeah, you don't need any kind of fancy plugin system for that! It can be done with custom parts and science configs.

A contract pack for Contract Configurator would be icing on the cake. First contract is to place the experiment somewhere for a specified length of time. Second contract is to collect the experiment and return it intact to Kerbin. That would be very cool.

[Foxxonius Augustus]

While we are talking about LDEF I'll just leave a link for the European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA) here as well.;)

EDIT: Totally forgot to ask about Getaway Specials as well. They seem like they would fit with this mods purpose quite well!

EDIT 2: Also I found a great resource for mining ideas for shuttle payload parts. It's NASA's Summary of Shuttle Payloads and Experiments, unfortunately it only goes up to STS-80 but still well worth the read.

EDIT 3: So I seem to have fallen into a rabbit hole here because I just found another great potential addition. Shuttle Hitchhiker Experiment Launcher System (SHELS) was based on the Hitchhiker program, it's self similar to the Getaway program.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Foxxonius Augustus

[CobaltWolf]

7 hours ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

While we are talking about LDEF I'll just leave a link for the European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA) here as well.;)

EDIT: Totally forgot to ask about Getaway Specials as well. They seem like they would fit with this mods purpose quite well!

EDIT 2: Also I found a great resource for mining ideas for shuttle payload parts. It's NASA's Summary of Shuttle Payloads and Experiments, unfortunately it only goes up to STS-80 but still well worth the read.

EDIT 3: So I seem to have fallen into a rabbit hole here because I just found another great potential addition. Shuttle Hitchhiker Experiment Launcher System (SHELS) was based on the Hitchhiker program, it's self similar to the Getaway program.

^All very cool.

[MrMeeb]

On 8/7/2016 at 7:46 AM, Foxxonius Augustus said:

While we are talking about LDEF I'll just leave a link for the European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA) here as well.;)

EDIT: Totally forgot to ask about Getaway Specials as well. They seem like they would fit with this mods purpose quite well!

EDIT 2: Also I found a great resource for mining ideas for shuttle payload parts. It's NASA's Summary of Shuttle Payloads and Experiments, unfortunately it only goes up to STS-80 but still well worth the read.

EDIT 3: So I seem to have fallen into a rabbit hole here because I just found another great potential addition. Shuttle Hitchhiker Experiment Launcher System (SHELS) was based on the Hitchhiker program, it's self similar to the Getaway program.

Liking the look of all of these! I think that making all of these kinds of things without making a set of contracts is unavoidable, so looks like I'll need to start thinking about agencies and flags and the like. Another thing I was thinking about was something like these boxes, similar to the SHELS. I've tested the idea using @akron's little cubesat things, and a handmade one. It worked pretty well, and would be a nice touch. My only slight concern is how some of the parts may be limited to a very specific use with a very specific part. Not sure

 

[AyeLmao]

This mod dead? Or is the thread just Dead.

[MrMeeb]

4 minutes ago, EffOffM8 said:

This mod dead? Or is the thread just Dead.

Dude, I posted 6 days ago.

To answer your question, here is a snippet from a post I made, at the top of this page:

On 03/08/2016 at 9:43 PM, MrMeeb said:

Unfortunately, I'm going away for 3 weeks on Saturday, so I won't have any opportunity to work on anything while I'm gone

 

[AyeLmao]

Just now, MrMeeb said:

Dude, I posted 6 days ago.

To answer your question, here is a snippet from a post I made, at the top of this page:

 

didnt read, Chill,

[Z3R0_0NL1N3]

I've got a small suggestion. Could you include nodes on the payload bay for the MMU and the fuel cells that place them in the most accurate position to the real shuttle?

[White Owl]

I'll note the craft file that comes bundled with this mod looks fantastic, but the CoM is waaaay too far aft. The real Orbiter's CoM in both the on-orbit and landing configurations was located near the center of the payload bay. That's so payloads of various weights wouldn't adversely affect the Orbiter's handling. No wonder people are posting about not being able to fly the thing... looks like the CoM is actually behind the main landing gear, so you couldn't even land it anyway.

The SSMEs from DIRECT are way too heavy, too. They're heavier than the real things, installed in an Orbiter that's smaller and lighter than the real thing. That's definitely a major contributor to the overall CoM problem.

[TheAceOfHearts]

13 minutes ago, White Owl said:

I'll note the craft file that comes bundled with this mod looks fantastic, but the CoM is waaaay too far aft. The real Orbiter's CoM in both the on-orbit and landing configurations was located near the center of the payload bay. That's so payloads of various weights wouldn't adversely affect the Orbiter's handling. No wonder people are posting about not being able to fly the thing... looks like the CoM is actually behind the main landing gear, so you couldn't even land it anyway.

The SSMEs from DIRECT are way too heavy, too. They're heavier than the real things, installed in an Orbiter that's smaller and lighter than the real thing. That's definitely a major contributor to the overall CoM problem.

I've tried as hard as I can with my orbiter, which I think is nearly identical to Meeb's, and I can't find any way to move the CoM forward without reducing the amount of monopropellant below a practical amount. It's easier to get into orbit if you change the order fuel flows from the external tank, but I can't seem to move the CoM of the orbiter.

[Avalon304]

26 minutes ago, TheAceOfHearts said:

I've tried as hard as I can with my orbiter, which I think is nearly identical to Meeb's, and I can't find any way to move the CoM forward without reducing the amount of monopropellant below a practical amount. It's easier to get into orbit if you change the order fuel flows from the external tank, but I can't seem to move the CoM of the orbiter.

Ive found filling the wings with fuel (and then diasabling those tanks so they dont drain) helps a little bit. It moves the CoM further forward.

[White Owl]

Looks to me like the SSMEs need to be a lot lighter, and the forward RCS nosepiece needs to be a lot heavier. Realizing now that none of this is actually this mod's problem...

[Doc Shaftoe]

MrMeeb I wanted to thank you for putting out a fantastic addition to KSP. Your payload bay coupled with Pak's parts really make shuttles in KSP shine.