Do YOU use mods??

[lodger]

Kerbal Engineer and Docking Alignment Indicator are mandatory. Depending on my mood and the complexity of a mission, I also add MechJeb once in a while. However, I played two years (don't ask me how many hours) using only stock in order to learn the basics. Oh and Chatterer, I turn that one on from time to time just for the fun of it.

[proxyde]

Kerbal Engineer, SCANsat, and Toolbar.  I occasionally use HyperEdit, but only in sandbox, never in career.

I find that a good way to run "simulations" on a career craft is to copy the craft file over to my sandbox game and then HyperEdit to the destination body.  Real-life spacecraft engineers run copious simulations, such as wind tunnel and computer simulations, so this is my KSP equivalent.

I would like to try some of the mods that make KSP prettier, but I need to upgrade my computer first. 

[Diche Bach]

So quick question to anyone watching this thread who uses lots of mods: do you notice appreciable performance degradation associated with using mods?

[Red Iron Crown]

3 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

So quick question to anyone watching this thread who uses lots of mods: do you notice appreciable performance degradation associated with using mods?

Yes. Part mods usually have little effect other than longer load times and more memory used. Plugin mods vary from "negligible effect" to "slows the game down unacceptably". VFX mods can have a big effect, especially if your video card is weak. Other plugins depend on the complexity of what they add and how well they're coded.

[Diche Bach]

44 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Yes. Part mods usually have little effect other than longer load times and more memory used. Plugin mods vary from "negligible effect" to "slows the game down unacceptably". VFX mods can have a big effect, especially if your video card is weak. Other plugins depend on the complexity of what they add and how well they're coded.

Wouldn't it be _AWESOME!_ if Squad did on their end what they could reasonably do to mitigate these issues?

It is a bit puzzling to hear your prognosis though. I'd say most of my mods are either parts mods (the USI pack, InterstellarExtended, the NearFutures set, etc., KW_Rocketry), or what I'd call "widgets" for lack of a better word (e.g., Chatterer, biomatic, that sort of thing, even MechJeb I suppose). Only VFX I run that I am aware of is Scatterer. Then there is TweakScale, which I suspect is the main culprit for my performance issues, and is in sort of a class by itself I suppose.

I see my biggest performance issues when large complex ship designing is involved, not in situations where I'd think Scatterer would cause problems (e.g., while in flight on Kerbin).

[Red Iron Crown]

1 minute ago, Diche Bach said:

Wouldn't it be _AWESOME!_ if Squad did on their end what they could reasonably do to mitigate these issues?

They do, and have.

1 minute ago, Diche Bach said:

It is a bit puzzling to hear your prognosis though. I'd say most of my mods are either parts mods (the USI pack, InterstellarExtended, the NearFutures set, etc., KW_Rocketry), or what I'd call "widgets" for lack of a better word (e.g., Chatterer, biomatic, that sort of thing, even MechJeb I suppose). Only VFX I run that I am aware of is Scatterer. Then there is TweakScale, which I suspect is the main culprit for my performance issues, and is in sort of a class by itself I suppose.

USI and Interstellar both include plugins, they're not purely part packs and add new mechanics. All those "widgets" add a bit of load, in aggregate this can be significant. Tweakscale shouldn't be very performance heavy.

1 minute ago, Diche Bach said:

I see my biggest performance issues when large complex ship designing is involved, not in situations where I'd think Scatterer would cause problems (e.g., while in flight on Kerbin).

Large, complex ships are going to hurt performance no matter what you do. In a modded install you can mitigate it to some degree by closing delta-V windows in KER or MechJeb, this will keep the vessel simulation for delta-V from running.

Really though, you should do some testing with individual mods to find what is causing the biggest performance hits for you.

[Diche Bach]

@Red Iron Crown: Thanks. That is good to hear you clarify. I will take up the gauntlet and resolve to test each mod individually.

[Mycroft]

I would say that B-9 Aerospace, while their parts are amazing, is one of the biggest performance hitters due to the fact that their textures are large and unoptimized. Hasn't stopped me from getting it though. The HX parts can let you build awesome spaceships, especially when used in conjunction with Lack Luster Labs for adding detail.

[Azimech]

I build them too.

[adsii1970]

Yes, I use mods. Here's a partial list to what I use and why:

• Kerbal Engineer Redux: it provides a wealth of information on craft performance that the stock game does not provide.
• MechJeb2: I use it to master new KSP skills. Right now, I am using it as a means of perfecting planned landings near the KSP. In the past, I have used it to learn how to dock, how to plan for rendezvous, and various orbits, such as polar, 45 degree, etc.
• Planetary Base: It does more than just provide neat parts for planetary bases. I've even used it for ship superstructure...
• @Fengist's Sink It! and Maritime Pack: Both mods have made a lot of craft out of these two mods.
• Environmental Visual Enhancements (by @rbray89): Nothing says making perfect Kerbin skies like this mod. Although I do like the older version that had heavier clouds...

There are more mods I use, but mainly to fill niches I feel the game is missing. I'm getting a new laptop in February and will add a few more mods.

 

[Curveball Anders]

1 hour ago, Diche Bach said:

Wouldn't it be _AWESOME!_ if Squad did on their end what they could reasonably do to mitigate these issues?

Optimising the API, cleaning up old cruft and adding new better ways has been included in more or less ever devnote and every release.

(Possibly because almost every dev at Squad also moonlights as modder ).

Edit: But no matter what they do, the quality of each mod is up to the author and noone else.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Curveball Anders
clarity

[Andem]

Yes. Always.

[Sneaky Bstard Sword]

I usually have a few metric ass-tons installed at any given time, but I honestly can't play without a few specific utility mods like KER, tweakscale and navball docking alignment indicator

[Diche Bach]

On 9/6/2016 at 11:05 AM, Red Iron Crown said:

They do, and have.

USI and Interstellar both include plugins, they're not purely part packs and add new mechanics. All those "widgets" add a bit of load, in aggregate this can be significant. Tweakscale shouldn't be very performance heavy.

Large, complex ships are going to hurt performance no matter what you do. In a modded install you can mitigate it to some degree by closing delta-V windows in KER or MechJeb, this will keep the vessel simulation for delta-V from running.

Really though, you should do some testing with individual mods to find what is causing the biggest performance hits for you.

So far I've tested about 50 of the 76 I had installed and seeing a progressive degradation of performance (slower loads, slower scene changes, progressively higher "idling" RAM usage [idling meaning, just sitting there look at a blank canvas in the VAB and alt-tabbing out to have a look at Task Manager . . . all very scientific stuff, using the "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand, . . ." MkII timer mechanism . . .) I'm pretty sure several of those ones in that last set of ~26 will have to be left for a future more-RAM augmented rig

The basic method I've been following and the data I've collected:

1. copied my old GameData folder and renamed it GameData6Sept2016

2. copied the Squad folder and created a new GameData folder and plopped Squad into it.\

3. Launched game and collected a few "eyeball" measures of performance indicators, then closed game.

4. Add a couple mods (ones I feel are absolutely "essential" to me enjoying the game) and repeat step three.

Here is what I've got so far (when I say "Mode Switch" what I really should say is "Scene Change")

KSP EssentialModTesting
6 Sep 2016

-=-=-=-=-=
Performance Log Template
--------------
TEST #
Test Conditions:
Bootup:
ModeSwitch (switching between a couple game modes-> Space Center-> VAB -> Space Center -> SPH -> Space Center:
VAB TaskManager Check
CPU
RAM
App Shutdown: 
--------------
-=-=-=-=-=
Method
1. copied my old GameData folder and renamed it GameData6Sept2016

2. copied the Squad folder and created a new GameData folder and plopped Squad into it.\

3. Launched game and collected a few "eyeball" measures of performance indicators, then closed game.

4. Add a couple mods (ones I feel are absolutely "essential" to me enjoying the game) and repeat step three.

Results
-=-=-=-=-=
TEST ONE
Test Conditions: Vanilla (Squad directory only)
Bootup: fast: 10 seconds max?
Mode switch fast: 1 second
VAB Taskmanager Check
CPU 45-65%
RAM 38%
App Shutdown: Totally Normal (2 seconds max)

---------------
TEST TWO
Test Conditions: added following mods
    1. Kerbal Engineer
    2. Editor ExtensionsRedux
    3. CommunityTechTree
    4. CameraFocusChanger
    5. Hangar Grid
    6. TriggerTech
Bootup: No noticeable degradation
Mode switch: same as stock, 1 second ish
VAB TaskManager Check
CPU ~45 to 55
RAM ~35%
App Shutdown: Totally Normal (2 seconds max)
---------------

---------------
TEST THREE
Test Conditions:
    1 through 6 (above) and
    7. UmbraSpaceIndustries
Bootup: about 20 seconds
ModeSwitch: perhaps a bit closer to 2 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check
CPU: 35 to 65 (some occaiosional spiking to 80 but that may have been there in the previous test configurations too, not sure)
RAM: stable at 38% just like the previous modded configurations
App Shutdown: 2 seconds max

--------------
TEST FOUR
Test Conditions:
    1 through 7 above and
    8. 000_USITools
    9. Kerbal Joint Reinforcement
    10. NavBallAdjustor
Bootup: 24 seconds
ModeSwitch (switching between a couple game modes-> Space Center-> VAB -> Space Center -> SPH -> Space Center:
VAB TaskManager Check
CPU: 35-65
RAM: 38
App Shutdown: 2 seconds, possible 2.5
--------------
--------------
TEST Five
Test Conditions:
    1 through 10 above and
    11. RemoteTech
    12. KWRocketry
Bootup: 25 seconds
ModeSwitch: just a bit more than 2 seconds.
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 35-65
RAM: seems stable at 42%
App Shutdown: just a bit over 2 seconds
--------------
--------------
TEST SIX
Test Conditions:
    1 through 12 above and
    13. DMagicOrbitalScience
    14.Chatterer
Bootup: 31 seconds
ModeSwitch: 3 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 35-65 saw one spike to 90
RAM: seems stable at 42%
App Shutdown:  Initial close of game screen slightly slower at 2 seconds
but no hang from Main Menu to desktop (as I have observed in heavily modded build)
--------------

--------------
TEST SEVEN
Test Conditions:
    1 through 14 above and
    15. SCANSat
    16. NavyFish(Docking Port Alignment Indicator)
    17. McDonnell (Gemini "Vinci" & "Botticelli" Command & Crew modules)
Bootup: about 30 from Squad splash screen, but a bit longer in pre-boot
ModeSwitch: 2 to 3 seconds (VAB and SPH slower as with all previous tests)
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 37-60, few more spikes into 75-85 range
RAM: stable at 44
App Shutdown:  2 second for all steps
--------------

--------------
TEST EIGHT
Test Conditions:
    1 through 17 above and
    18. ContractPacks
    19. ContractConfigurator
    20. DMagicUtilities
Bootup: 34 from Squad splash but a bit longer in pre-boot
ModeSwitch: 1 to 3 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 38 to 65 no spikes observed
RAM: stable at 61%
App Shutdown: 2 to 3
--------------

--------------
TEST NINE
Test Conditions:
    1 through 20 above and
    21. UniversalStorage
    22. SolarScience
    23. SpaceY-Lifters
    24. WaypointManager
Bootup: 45 seconds including pre-boot to Main Menu
ModeSwitch: 1 crash (2 to 3 seconds otherwise)
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 35 to 65 no spikes observed
RAM: stable at 63%
App Shutdown: crashed
--------------

--------------
TEST TEN
Test Conditions: Repeat of above
Bootup: 45 seconds
ModeSwitch: 3 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 35 to 75
RAM: 61%
App Shutdown: 2 t 3 seconds
--------------

--------------
TEST ELEVEN
Test Conditions:
    1 through 24 above and
    25. KSPX
    26. Impact
    27. Spacetux
Bootup: 45 seconds
ModeSwitch: 3+ seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 45 to 60
RAM: stable at 66%
App Shutdown: 2 to 3 seconds
--------------

--------------
TEST TWELVE
Test Conditions:
    1 THROUGH 27 AND
    28. TweakScale
    29. WasdEditorCamera
    30. KIS
    31. KAS
Bootup: 60 seconds?
ModeSwitch: 2 to 4 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 35 to 65%
RAM: 71 to 72%
App Shutdown:  2 to 3 seconds
--------------

--------------
TEST THIRTEEN
Test Conditions:
    1 through 31 and
    32. ModRocketSystem
    33. Biomatic
    34. StaageRecover
Bootup: 51 seconds
ModeSwitch: 4 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 35 to 75 no spikes observed
RAM: 70%
App Shutdown: 2 to 3 seconds
--------------

--------------
TEST FOURTEEN
Test Conditions:
    1 through 34 and
    35. CommunityResourcePack
    36. Outer Planets Mod (CTTP and OPM directories)
    37. Kopernicus 1.1.3-1 (Kopernicus and ModularFlightIntegrator directories)
Bootup: 56 seconds
ModeSwitch: crash
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: crashed prior to test
RAM: crashed prior to test
App Shutdown: crashed prior to test
--------------

--------------
TEST FIFTEEN
Test Conditions:
    Same as above repeat after crash
Bootup: 55 seconds
ModeSwitch: 3 to 4 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 25 to 64
RAM: 70%
App Shutdown: 2 to 3
--------------

--------------
TEST SIXTEEN
Test Conditions:
    1 through 37 and
    38. NearFutureConstruction
    39. NearFutureElectricalNTRs
    40. NearFutureProps
    41. NearFuturePropulsion
    42. NearFutureSpacecraft
Bootup: 51 seconds
ModeSwitch: 2 to 4
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 27 to 65
RAM: 71%
App Shutdown: 3 seconds
--------------

--------------
TEST SEVENTEEN
Test Conditions:
    1 through 42 and
    43. Extrasolar
    44. ShipManifest
Bootup: 57 seconds
ModeSwitch: crashed
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: crashed
RAM: crashed
App Shutdown: crashed
--------------

--------------
TEST EIGHTEEN
Test Conditions:
    Repeat of above
Bootup: 60 seconds
ModeSwitch: 3 to 5 seconds
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 35 to 65
RAM: 71%
App Shutdown: 3 to 4 seconds
--------------

--------------
TEST NINETEEN
Test Conditions:
    1 through 44 above and
    45. Kerbal Construction Time (plus MagiCore dll .version and .txt files)
    46. 000_Toolbar
Bootup: 55 seconds, crashed after bootup
ModeSwitch: crashed
VAB TaskManager Check: crashed
CPU: crashed
RAM: crashed
App Shutdown: crashed
--------------

--------------
TEST TWENTY
Test Conditions:
    same as above, except
    removed Toolbar
Bootup: 57 seconds
ModeSwitch: crashed
VAB TaskManager Check:crashed
CPU: crashed
RAM: crashed
App Shutdown: crashed
--------------

Continued Testing 7 Sept 2016
--------------
TEST TWENTY-ONE
Test Conditions:
    1 through 45 above and
    46. Persistent-Dynamic Pod Names
Bootup: 
ModeSwitch: 
VAB TaskManager Check:
CPU: 
RAM: 
App Shutdown: 
--------------

Given I see a progressive increase in RAM usage with each packet of 2 to 4 additional mods I add to the mix (some of which are very lightweight, some of which are not), I'm a bit skeptical how much of the overall hit to performance the game experiences from heavy modded builds can be attributed to "bad design" on the part of modders. I'm guessing the game allocates RAM to things and then just leaves it instead of deallocating it, and that to me seems sub-optimum . . . but I digress, I really should take this back to one of the other recent threads about how to improve performance on modded builds.

[ispeedonthe405]

I can't drum up the will to play without RO/RSS. I also mod the mods a bit to better support the pursuit of establishing refueling bases throughout the system.

[NoMrBond]

Two installs; one stock + beautification (EVE, Scatterer, RealPlume, PlanetShine, Distant Object, Texture replacer et al) and the other loaded with RP-0 (8K)

 

[septemberWaves]

I use a LOT of mods. I use planet packs almost all the time because I've gone everywhere in the stock system quite a lot and whilst I will still never get bored of sending missions to places like Duna or the Jool system, I like to have much more variety than the few planets provided in the stock game. I use a lot of parts mods because I design vehicles mainly for aesthetic purposes and that's somewhat difficult with stock parts. And of course, I use a couple of utility mods (MechJeb, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Editor Extensions Redux, etc) to enhance my gameplay experience and also in some cases my screenshot taking abilities (particularly with MechJeb because I can set up a rocket to launch autonomously and then get screenshots at all the critical moments in flight).

[Kerbinchaser]

Hoo, yeah. 

I use a LOT of mods.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Lo Var Lachland

[KerikBalm]

Kerbal Engineer

Hyperedit (for testing purposes, not during "real" missions)

Scatterer (for pretty stuff)

Environmental Visual Enhancements/EVE (for pretty stuff)

Thinking about adding distant object Visual enhancement

Atomic Age pack - installed but I don't really use it as I like to have my designs mostly stock, the nuclear lightbulb seems OPd (full scale performance in a 1/10th scale system)

For now: Kerbal Research and Development - just trying it out for fun... but it makes parts pretty OPd after a few upgrades. I'll scrub it later.

 

Personal Mods:

A planet I call "Rald", with Duna as its moon, Ike moved to Sun-Kerbin Pseudo L4

2 dwarf planets to keep dres company: Pact and Vot modeled after Pallas and Vesta

Ballast tanks

Ducted electric fans

Air augmented rockets/ ramrockets/turborockets.

[Guest]

On 04/09/2016 at 11:12 PM, Diche Bach said:

Do you suffer performance issues?

The game hasn't slowed noticeably but I've cut maybe 10fps off the space centre screen compared to what I would get playing stock, and the initial game loading takes 4–6 minutes with an HDD.

The only mod I've used that severely taxed my PC was Custom Asteroids in 1.0.5; it may be fixed now though, and configuring it to use the stock spawn system reduces the load greatly according to the mod's developer.

 

On 04/09/2016 at 11:12 PM, Diche Bach said:

Would you mind post a screen cap of your GameData directory with all the mod sub-directories visible?

I would. I will however say that I've cut down a lot of my mods for particular things I want, which can go as far as using only one planet from an entire system overhaul mod, and I'm only using 14 parts from Bluedog's ~250 part mod.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Guest

[Gojira1000]

As I always toss KER in (even in "vanilla" saves) I had to answer "all the time". I normally run somewhere between 12 and 20 mods on a given install.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Gojira1000
spellin'

[Crocket]

I have two KSP installs on my computer: one bone-stock and one with (as of today) BDB and Tantares. Even now, the modded loadtime is ludicrious compared to the stock.

[ZooNamedGames]

Maybe...?

For those with keen eyes, yes that's 7 separate KSP installs. I need to delete some :| .

[Wjolcz]

It's hard to play a game that doesn't provide you basic information without a few mods taking care of the lack of it.

[swjr-swis]

I've gone back and forth on this. I have played extended times both with and without mods. When I did use mods, I used a LOT; I still have some older versions archived with 160+ mods on each (some even from when 64-bit was unofficial and actively boycotted). There are some amazing mods out there.

I do not use mods anymore, at all, and I feel no urge to load any. It is amazing how much more time I gain to actually just play and enjoy the game, when I no longer have a need to try keep up with mods (it loads a whole lot faster too!).

KSP is quite an awesome pass time without a single mod loaded. Some bugs and shortcomings can be annoying at times and can make me long for moar or better, but the game reels me in every time anyway. And despite wild claims to the contrary: everything in the game can be done successfully without mods. In fact, people routinely come up with things to do in the game that no mod provides for. The Sandbox is real - long live the pure stock experience.