Feelings on stock moving parts?

[Twreed87]

I'm not sure if the devs have ever made any statements regarding their thoughts on having stock moving parts. I wouldn't want to see any overly complex robotics, but a few basic moving part options would be really great. I'm thinking basic things like joints for trusses and I-beams, as well as telescoping/extending versions of the same. Also, a part that works just like the Klaw, except with an attachment point at the end instead of a claw. I think this could open up a world of building possibilities without too much complexity. What do you think?

[pandaman]

I certainly think there is a place for some moving parts, your suggestion  of an extendable attachment point is a very good example.

Maybe a couple of sizes of telescopic beams, with attachment nodes at the ends and hinges in light and heavy duty versions would be sufficient. 

[nascarlaser1]

Aren't there hinges that can be made out of stock parts already? I think that's kind of what you are referring to.

[swjr-swis]

I am guessing you mean 'besides the set of moving parts we already have' (inflatable shield, wheels, landing gear/legs, opening doors on bays and ports, extendable antennae/panels/radiators, drills).

A few sizes of hinges-in-one-part would be very very welcome, as well as extending & retractable girders/trusses, agreed.

Personally I would also welcome some inflatable airbags and habitats/corridors, and some sizes of one-part propeller engines.

[panzer1b]

Im onboard for this, even something as simple as a rotating gizmo (0.6 and 1.2m versions) would be adequate since you can make almost anything with it.  Hinges can be custom built with a rotator sideways, and the rotator works for other applications like turrets, station rings, and general realignment of parts.  Linear pushers would also be nice but really the one and only essential movable part would be a 360 degree capable rotator.

Its not like we dont have our share of stock movables (airbrakes make exceptional doors, cargo bays, hell even the antenna makes for a decent door), but id love to see a limited version of the robotics mod in stock game just so i can make mechs (and a whole lot of other things like actual low part count turrets, custom doors, ect) without loading up infernal robotics...

[septemberWaves]

I'd like to see a couple of inflatable parts, seeing as that's technology that's in development in reality right now and would therefore fit in quite nicely near the end of the existing tech tree. A centrifuge module that can be expanded (and perhaps be able to rotate) when in orbit, and perhaps an inflatable science lab to serve as an upgrade to the existing one (for it to have much purpose, the existing lab could probably do with being downgraded).

[lajoswinkler]

Hinge, rotor, telescopic boom. Yes, we need those.

[Tex_NL]

Lets dust off the good old What not to suggest and Already suggested lists. Both should have NEVER been un-stickied. They still serve a purpose, they should be properly maintained and returned to their former glory.

Browsing through those you'll learn Squad is well aware of this request. They never said it would not be added to the game. But the also never confirmed this as a planned feature. However the same was true about cargo bays, resource mining, fairings and a lot of other things. With the upcoming v1.2 a few more of those wishes will be granted. So who knows, in the (near) future we might actually get some form of robotics.
It will probably be a poor rip-off of an existing mod but you should not look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Red Iron Crown]

23 hours ago, nascarlaser1 said:

Aren't there hinges that can be made out of stock parts already? I think that's kind of what you are referring to.

Not on a single craft, such things require the craft to separate into pieces to move relative to each other. Very finicky to set up and get working, and even then it sometimes doesn't go as planned (kudos to those players who make such things, you are more patient than I am).

[Stoney3K]

Exactly as RIC stated, that's why there are no moving parts in stock.

The Klaw works as a docking port so it can only move a craft relative to another craft. That's also why trying to Klaw your own craft is a bad idea. And all of the other "moving" parts (landing gear, solar arrays, antenae, and so on) are moving, but they are only moving with respect to themselves. They can't have another part attached to their moving bits, for the exact reason mentioned: It would mean a certain part of the craft is moving relative to the rest of it, and this can't be simulated properly in Unity (which expects each craft to be a rigid body with no hinges)

AFAIK, Infernal Robotics uses some kind of hack to make it work, but the most elegant way to implement it would be to have each sub-craft on either side of a moving element act like a "craft" acts now, and make an entire craft consist of a group of these sub-craft. However, that would mean a significant code change.

[lajoswinkler]

1 hour ago, Tex_NL said:

Lets dust off the good old What not to suggest and Already suggested lists. Both should have NEVER been un-stickied. They still serve a purpose, they should be properly maintained and returned to their former glory.

Browsing through those you'll learn Squad is well aware of this request. They never said it would not be added to the game. But the also never confirmed this as a planned feature. However the same was true about cargo bays, resource mining, fairings and a lot of other things. With the upcoming v1.2 a few more of those wishes will be granted. So who knows, in the (near) future we might actually get some form of robotics.
It will probably be a poor rip-off of an existing mod but you should not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Don't worry, an army of reddit-facebook reactionaries  will vomit on the idea until they twitch from exhaustion, and after the stuff gets added, they will experience a collective amnesia.

After that, they'll move on to pooping on another idea. Bussiness as usual.

[Temeter]

Agreed, at least some basic parts would be nice. Nothing complicated, just a simple and versatile system so people can get creative with it. That's where KSP is at it's best.

Folding stuff is incredibly common in spaceflight. Could be especially usefull for antennas, or compare the pioneer:

Spoiler

Or even better, Genesis:

Spoiler

 

 

1 hour ago, Tex_NL said:

Lets dust off the good old What not to suggest and Already suggested lists. Both should have NEVER been un-stickied. They still serve a purpose, they should be properly maintained and returned to their former glory.

Browsing through those you'll learn Squad is well aware of this request. They never said it would not be added to the game. But the also never confirmed this as a planned feature. However the same was true about cargo bays, resource mining, fairings and a lot of other things. With the upcoming v1.2 a few more of those wishes will be granted. So who knows, in the (near) future we might actually get some form of robotics.
It will probably be a poor rip-off of an existing mod but you should not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Idk, priorities and ideas change over time. This in particular was just never high enough on Squads priority list to put people on it or make a final decision (afawk), so a thread reminding that people would like something like this does serve a purpose, doesn't it?

Even moreso since that entry is from long before the new aerodynamik, when shape didn't matter and folding stuff was less important.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Temeter

[Alshain]

I believe there is a place for moving parts but I do not like the interface in Infernal Robotics for making them move.

[KerikBalm]

I'm fine with the interface for the cargoramp, which can already be used to raise/lower parts as you want... but the mk3 cargobay is a big part, and it would be very nice if we had smaller landing leg like parts that would move like that.

It would be *extremely* nice if the movable part of the cargoramp had an attachment node, or stuff could at least surface attach to it.

[Temeter]

3 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I believe there is a place for moving parts but I do not like the interface in Infernal Robotics for making them move.

One start would be a context menug action just saying extended/retracted. Maybe max angle in editor.

As KerikBalm said, we basically have that already for the ramp.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Temeter

[Alshain]

5 minutes ago, Temeter said:

One start would be a context menug action just saying extended/retracted. Maybe max angle in editor.

Yeah, that would be a good start.   Similar to the cargo ramp angle and cargo bay deploy limiter would definitely work for some parts, like hinges.  You could also do that for rotation, but in terms of degrees.  However, it depends on what purpose you are targeting.  If you want something like a canadarm, you need an easier way to move them to make it useful.  IR uses push buttons on a window form, but I think there should be a keyboard interface method.  A control method that allows you to assign keys to a hinging/rotating part.  This would require you enter a separate control mode because most of the keys on the keyboard are already in use.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Alshain

[lajoswinkler]

13 hours ago, Alshain said:

I believe there is a place for moving parts but I do not like the interface in Infernal Robotics for making them move.

I don't even need an interface. Just having a few parts is fine with me.

[Twreed87]

15 hours ago, Stoney3K said:

Exactly as RIC stated, that's why there are no moving parts in stock.

The Klaw works as a docking port so it can only move a craft relative to another craft. That's also why trying to Klaw your own craft is a bad idea. And all of the other "moving" parts (landing gear, solar arrays, antenae, and so on) are moving, but they are only moving with respect to themselves. They can't have another part attached to their moving bits, for the exact reason mentioned: It would mean a certain part of the craft is moving relative to the rest of it, and this can't be simulated properly in Unity (which expects each craft to be a rigid body with no hinges)

AFAIK, Infernal Robotics uses some kind of hack to make it work, but the most elegant way to implement it would be to have each sub-craft on either side of a moving element act like a "craft" acts now, and make an entire craft consist of a group of these sub-craft. However, that would mean a significant code change.

I thought docking ports merged both vessels into one completely. Wouldn't the Klaw do the same? Ships aren't completely rigid bodies, they bend and flex, and as someone said earlier there are plenty of moving parts already. I guess I'm just suggesting some more general-use construction parts.

[Superfluous J]

 

34 minutes ago, Twreed87 said:

I thought docking ports merged both vessels into one completely. Wouldn't the Klaw do the same?

You are correct. You may not remember it (or have been here) but when the Claw was first introduced, it was very buggy for similar reasons to why IR parts are buggy: Unity does not work this way. I believe the Claw works at all because you almost always use it to connect to something that is itself rigid (and frequently single-part). Also, the very limited angle range may help, I don't know for sure though as I'm not a Unity programmer in any but the most liberal of senses.

34 minutes ago, Twreed87 said:

Ships aren't completely rigid bodies, they bend and flex

There is a BIG difference between bending a bit under strain (and then snapping back when that strain is gone) and rotating or bending with a hinge. They are actually completely separate things that have nothing to do with each other.

34 minutes ago, Twreed87 said:

there are plenty of moving parts already

There is exactly ONE part in the entire game that - by using its stock move functionality - you can modify the angle between two sections of the same craft. That one part is the Claw which - as I discussed above - is extremely limited to keep bugs away. Every other part in the game with moving parts, moves those parts in such a way as to not alter the basic layout of your ship.

I would seriously doubt there is ANYBODY within Squad who looks at the parts in Infernal Robotics and says, "Meh. Not needed." But unlike modders they can't allow craft-destroying bugs into their code.

Edited September 12, 2016 by 5thHorseman

[Sharpy]

A stock motor and a linear actuator. That's all that is needed.

Or make wheels actually wheels and make their tires surface-attachable.

 

[Columbia]

A free-moving hinge and a motorized hinge would be adequate for me.

I think if they could somehow be added smoothly, they would open up a lot of possibilities;

Custom landing legs, propellers (?), rover doors, retractable aerodynamic shields, compact bases, ramps for transport..

Well, assuming they can get it to work. The mere idea's exciting in itself.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Columbia

[Xavven]

Yes, please! Think of the possibilities!

1. Fold up a payload so it fits better in a fairing.
2. Make your own massive retractable landing gear for those "why put 2 Kerbals on the Mun when you can put 20?" moments.
3. Adjustable-height docking ports for surface-docking.
4. Cranes for building bases.
5. VTOL engines on planes, and space-born belly-landers
6. Self-righting rovers (someone did this with landing gear, but it would be much better with a hinge and motor)
7. Custom rover wheels (I'd make a giant wheel with ibeams as studs for super-traction)

Well, these ideas are nothing new to Infernal Robotics mod players, but I would love to see this in stock.

 

 

 

[Kerbart]

On 9/11/2016 at 10:26 AM, Tex_NL said:

They never said it would not be added to the game. But the also never confirmed this as a planned feature. However the same was true about cargo bays, resource mining, fairings and a lot of other things. 

Don't forget "airplane parts." Millions of airplane parts. In fact, when new parts get added these days it seems to be limited to airplane parts.

Maybe that's the trick. We should be asking for moving airplane parts!

[Sharpy]

21 minutes ago, Columbia said:

A free-moving hinge and a motorized hinge would be adequate for me.

This could be one part. With modes of 'locked', 'free', 'motor CW', 'motor CCW'. Motor could be disable'able from the editor.

Although personally, I'd implement it as two parts: Rotor and Stator. That way it would be friendly for modders who might want to customize it.

[Jonfliesgoats]

Moving parts, beyond control, surfaces and cargo bay doors would be great.  Since we have a lot of Shuttle inspired parts, why not have the Canadarm?  If the Canadarm is too complex Sharpy has a great suggestion with the hinge.