Kerbal Space Program 1.2: Loud & Clear release date and more!

[basic.syntax]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 2:35 PM, UomoCapra said:

There’s an important amount of new content, besides this new update, that we’re currently working on. This includes more free updates, full expansion packs with an incredible amount of new content

It sounds to me like they will take the reasonable route of engine updates = free (this update!) & expansion pack with new content = not free. Though the OP does not mention it, Squad would still be bound by previous very public statements to make expansion packs with new content free, to KSP purchasers who "bought in" before May 2013. 

[Andem]

33 minutes ago, razark said:

I replied to a comment that implied that Squad, or someone with the authority to speak for them, said there would not be any paid DLC, ever.

Which is not something Squad ever actually said.

 

Going back to the OP, it says nothing about paid DLC anyway, so... ?

 

1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

Which part? The part where they didn't say anything about paying for anything?

Maybe I'm just mixing up the threads, but I know for a fact that somewhere there was a statement that people who bought the gave by some point in 2013 would get all future expansions free. I'll look for it tomorrow, unless Squad ninja-edited it out like the youtube heroes video for some reason. No need for you to be so rude.

[razark]

16 minutes ago, Andem said:

Maybe I'm just mixing up the threads, but I know for a fact that somewhere there was a statement that people who bought the gave by some point in 2013 would get all future expansions free. I'll look for it tomorrow, unless Squad ninja-edited it out like the youtube heroes video for some reason. No need for you to be so rude.

Yes, they did say that back in 2013.

However, they have also said they didn't plan on making paid DLC/Expansions/etc., and have made similar statements repeatedly over many years.  Even now, when they made this OP, they did not explicitly state that they are going to be doing any sort of paid content.  Of course, while they did say they had no plans, they also never said they wouldn't ever make paid content.

 

Edit:

http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/47730955705/expansions-dlc-and-the-future-of-ksp

Quote

So given that this was a point of confusion, and that we believe that no matter what, a promise is a promise, we are including Expansions in what you can expect to get for free if you have already bought the game. Also, for those considering purchasing the game, we will maintain this promise for all purchases made until the end of this month (April, 2013).

We have to admit though, up until now, we hadn’t considered Expansion Packs to be the same as updates to KSP. That was in large part because we really had no plans for actual expansions at all. 

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by razark

[Superfluous J]

28 minutes ago, Andem said:

Maybe I'm just mixing up the threads, but I know for a fact that somewhere there was a statement that people who bought the gave by some point in 2013 would get all future expansions free. I'll look for it tomorrow, unless Squad ninja-edited it out like the youtube heroes video for some reason. No need for you to be so rude.

There was. It was one of the reasons I bought the game originally. Minecraft had the same wording and they've kept to their word so far as well.

I don't know where it says it anymore either. I won't feel the need to look it up until Squad actually goes against it, or even shows an indication that they will. Which, in my opinion, they have not. Not in this thread or any other.

And I didn't mean to come off as rude as I did. I just have been sitting on the sidelines getting more and more frustrated that everybody seems to be assuming the worst, and going out of their way to do so.

[danfarnsy]

Quote

We realize there is more than one way to interpret that. Regardless of whether ‘updates’ implies 'expansions’ or not, it’s quite obvious now that we need to rephrase that statement so everyone knows exactly what they’re getting when they purchase the game.

However, it became clear to us that many might have already taken that statement to mean something else than we did when they bought the game, and so had a different notion of what it was they were getting with their initial purchase.

So given that this was a point of confusion, and that we believe that no matter what, a promise is a promise, we are including Expansions in what you can expect to get for free if you have already bought the game. Also, for those considering purchasing the game, we will maintain this promise for all purchases made until the end of this month (April, 2013).

http://kerbaldevteam.tumblr.com/post/47730955705/expansions-dlc-and-the-future-of-ksp

So, yes, they said it.

It was a lame thing to say. But of those who are still playing from back then, I bet some of us are like me. I bought my initial copy in late 2012 (version 0.17). And then I bought several more over the next couple of years for friends and family. I've donated to some modders who have made incredible content (though it's hard to spread donations very evenly, considering how many mods I use). A few of us get expansions for free, apparently.

So what's the best bet for future content? Multiplayer! I want to play KSP with other people, in a workable, stable, intuitive way. I think it's doable. And even if my copy was an upgrade for free, I'd be lining up to get my friends in and sometimes buy their copies. I want to collaborate and coordinate on missions. Your whiner user base is not nearly as useful as your paying userbase, so make awesome things, and you'll likely have my money.

[Shpaget]

As someone who bought the game in mid 2012, I remember the whole free/not free/free again for existing customers drama and how SQUAD handled the situation professionally.

Four and a half years later, seeing how the game changed and the amount of new content I honestly can't say I got what I paid for. I got so much more.

$15 over this period is about 1 cent per day. The fun and knowledge I get every day from KSP (and I don't even play it any more) certainly is worth more than that. I have no objections to a paid DLC that would bring in a decent amount of content and would gladly pay another $15 for it. After all, KSP and the revenue it generates is what keeps SQUAD employees fed. I have to respect that fact. I also have to respect the fact that it is SQUAD that has to make an honest and thought out decision whether to charge for any future update and if yes to make that amount reasonable and comparable to the cost of making the update.

Anyway, let's look forward to the update that is about to be released and worry about future when the time comes. After all, SQUAD is yet to clarify the meaning of the last dev blog.

[Nereid]

12 hours ago, Andem said:

Bad example, because this is the first thing that pops up on a google search.

No. It's a good example, because they (Paradox) do it right. They will offer quite a few changes for free with every DLC and they offer an optional DLC for money. Sure, the paid content is a bit shallow sometimes, but everybody gets some of the content for free. And most of there DLCs are purely cosmetical and very, very cheap.

And let me tell you: I have bought all of their major DLCs even if they are a bit overpriced sometimes and nearly all of the cosmetical DLCs. Why? Because they support their games and they are still fixing bugs. They make me want them to get paid.

There are people out there that want ANYTHING for free and their want their games supported for years. But this is not possible. Softwaredevelopment is expensive - very expensive (even a small change request in a major project with perhaps 100 to 500 lines of code changed can cost a customer multiple $10,000 - paying $150,000 for a few minor changes is not rare). So just because you will find some complaints with google means nothing at all.

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Nereid

[Ackoli]

Is it true that dlc will be added? I hope not. Maybe ksp will be bought by ea next update...

What will the expansion packs be? Maybe make it so that you can pay a small amount of money If you run out of fuel to recharge your fuel tanks! and why not add adult content and change the rating to R18+?

[Semicolon]

1 hour ago, Ackoli said:

Is it true that dlc will be added? I hope not. Maybe ksp will be bought by ea next update...

What will the expansion packs be? Maybe make it so that you can pay a small amount of money If you run out of fuel to recharge your fuel tanks! and why not add adult content and change the rating to R18+?

Careful with that edge.

They said once that they wanted to do some sort of off world base building stuff, but that that would be something for an expansion [Citation needed], so that would be my guess for upcoming paid content.
 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Semicolon

[Araym]

It is Tuesday, 11th October 2012 2016. 10:30 am in Italy.

It is KSP 1.2 release day.

HYYYYYYYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Where is the download??? The store is not updated! WHERE WHERE WHERE WHERE IS IT????????

<Araym breaths>

Ok... probably I have to wait that the "new day" hits America and Mexico. It will be a LOOOOOOONG day.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Araym
... because I'm not coming from the past... and I'm in 2016 and not in 2012 :P

[lodger]

2 minutes ago, Araym said:

It is Tuesday, 11th October 2012. 10:30 am in Italy.

It is KSP 1.2 release day.

HYYYYYYYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

Where is the download??? The store is not updated! WHERE WHERE WHERE WHERE IS IT????????

<Araym breaths>

Ok... probably I have to wait that the "new day" hits America and Mexico. It will be a LOOOOOOONG day.

It's now 03:32 in Mexico City, so I guess we'll need to wait a few moar hours. 

[Jahulath]

On the topic of paid dlc I for one have a) a good understanding of the need to change licensing and business models b) seen many games that rinsed their users (blizzard etc) and c) have never paid so little for so much fun in any game ever - I'm not even sure that it works out at half a penny an hour... 

[Hannu2]

1 hour ago, Ackoli said:

What will the expansion packs be? Maybe make it so that you can pay a small amount of money If you run out of fuel to recharge your fuel tanks! and why not add adult content and change the rating to R18+?

 

That would be ridiculous, but unfortunately it is the fact that KSP can not sell forever and Squad have no reason to develop or update it infinitely. Or add some very complex and expensive new content, like multiplayer mode, better physics, better terrains or massive graphics overhauls. That would need a large team of programmers and artists. They will certainly not hire such army of professionals if there are no possibilities to incomes enough to pay costs and give profit to Squad.

I hope that the old promise will not eventually prevent Squad's decision to continue KSP. I hope that they will find some way to make new paid content without being claimed to be dishonest. They have made massive updates (like migration to Unity 5) and lots of new high quality content years after that. In my opinion it is far more than they have ever promised and far more than customer can honestly claim.

[razark]

40 minutes ago, Araym said:

It is Tuesday, 11th October 2012. 10:30 am in Italy.

Where is the download???

Four years in the future.

 

Which really raises some questions about your ISP.

[C04L]

ugh, want to buy real life time compression, hurry up mexico, hit the release button! :-)

 

On my opinion,

I want SQUAD to maintain the game and keep making new things for the game like parts/features etc.

But in my mind how can I reconcile this. They would still have overheads yet I'm expecting content indefinitely.

I do not wish to tie Squads hands, but I'm also not wealthy. If they wanted to expand the Kerbal universe in whatever way, I would consider supporting them if such a dlc had a reasonable price for content on it.

I'm quite sure the buying public will speak with their wallet if such a thing were overpriced.

Maybe its just me but when a game is complete and yet I would want more content, I would expect to pay for it...wouldn't I?

By the way, Thankyou Developers in Squad (past and present) for your time and creativity, The same goes to the Developers of the Mods. who's efforts should never go amiss.

[Onigato]

I work graveyard, and was really hoping to be able to put an hour or two of crashing Jeb into the Mun in before bed today... Sigh.

 

As for the DLC question, I've got to say that it would HAVE to be something we the consumers couldn't get from some modder. I love mods, but it's a one-or-the-other situation. If the DLC is stuff you can get from mods, the producing company HAS to turn off modding, or the consumer will go there and get it for free, and modders will pretty quickly make free versions of whatever it is the company is trying to sell. But on the flip side of that, if it is something absolutely unique, but unnecessary to gameplay, something that no modder could do alone, or even as a small team, then the producers have a valuable something and should get a value for it.

For games like Elder Scrolls, that typically comes in the form of some new location or quest line that is several hours long and covers vast reaches of territory. For KSP though? Interstellar parts/flights? I can't personally think of anything else that really isn't just a mod for the core game, and could be created (and may have been created already) by some modder working in their spare hours between the real world and having some KSP fun. And if it's just a mod, in a game that allows anyone to make mods as long as they are free access, that should include mods made by the devs themselves.

 

TL;DR; If it's unique and unrecreatable by an team of modders, and is something I don't NEED to be able to play the core game, I can see it as payable DLC. Anything else, it's a mod, and mods have an established history of being free for this game. DLC that is required to do something I should be able to do inherently is evile, and shouldn't even be contemplated.

 

ETA: "Better" versions of standard parts as DLC also counts as evile, since it effectively adds a pay to win aspect and feel to the game.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Onigato
Adding points

[tillyd]

20 hours ago, 0111narwhalz said:

Let's see...

New planets: Kopernicus. New galaxies are quite out of scale.

Complete rocket packs: Dozens of mods out there for this.

Ability to change parts' color: Kerbpaint. It's fixed for 1.1.3, and I'm sure it'll get an update.

All these things and more can be done with mods. Why would you pay for SQUAD's GP2 when you can just install a mod to give you three?

would much rather pay for integrated content than unsupported mods all of the mods u mentioned besides rocket packs bring major instability issues to the game ... and hey with mods some dude decides im out hes no longer gona maintain it well ya pooped ... atleast with integrated content whenever squad releases new content all integrated content as to recieve support ....

as for mods im a big donator to mod creators ... i love what they do so i show my support ... this is exactly what i would be doing with paid dlcs for ksp lets face it if squad released dlcs and no one brought them the free updates will soon dry up squad are a business at the end of the day with salaries and other expenses that need to be met ...

IF MY PURCHASING OF PAID DLCS ENABLES SQUAD TO KEEP PUBLISHING FREE CONTENT FOR YOU WHATS YOUR PROBLEM

the cost of this game for me in terms of game play is running at about 0.1 pence an hour ... do u have any idea how many game i would have brought if i wasnt playing ksp ... my steam catalogue is 300 games thick ... and ive prob brought 5 games since playing ksp ... ive saved $1000s of pounds playing ksp ... whats the harm in a £30 pound expansion every 6 months or so

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by tillyd

[Araym]

1 hour ago, razark said:

Four years in the future.

 

Which really raises some questions about your ISP.

WHOOOPS!!!!!!!!!

(>_>) Excitement makes my fingers tremble and hit wrong button

Edited October 11, 2016 by Araym

[l0k0]

9 minutes ago, tillyd said:

IF MY PURCHASING OF PAID DLCS ENABLES SQUAD TO KEEP PUBLISHING FREE CONTENT FOR YOU WHATS YOUR PROBLEM

I guess he's trying to point out KSP have been developed until now in a "community environment". DLCs are quite in the opposite direction, that's why people is worrying about them.

[tillyd]

Just now, l0k0 said:

I guess he's trying to point out KSP have been developed until now in a "community environment". DLCs are quite in the opposite direction, that's why people is worrying about them.

if i went to the bank and said hey gimme a million pound i want to develope a game and sell for £20 im expected to sell about 1 million copys and from the point of release im going to release free unpaid updates ... and hope the sales of the base game are going to continue to allow the funding of the free content ... the bankers going to refuse the loan as that business model isnt sustainable

 

[l0k0]

5 minutes ago, tillyd said:

if i went to the bank and said hey gimme a million pound i want to develope a game and sell for £20 im expected to sell about 1 million copys and from the point of release im going to release free unpaid updates ... and hope the sales of the base game are going to continue to allow the funding of the free content ... the bankers going to refuse the loan as that business model isnt sustainable

So your opinion is that KSP should make kind of a revolution, shutting down moddability and releasing a monolithics version of the game with charged DLCs in order to make the game more sustainable in the long term, right?

I don't agree with this opinion as there are no evidences this is the right way to help this awesome piece of code.

Sometimes the community is the stronger factor in the long term.

 

[Nereid]

1 minute ago, l0k0 said:

So your opinion is that KSP should make kind of a revolution, shutting down moddability and releasing a monolithics version of the game with charged DLCs in order to make the game more sustainable in the long term, right?

? No. He didn't say so.

[tillyd]

12 minutes ago, l0k0 said:

So your opinion is that KSP should make kind of a revolution, shutting down moddability and releasing a monolithics version of the game with charged DLCs in order to make the game more sustainable in the long term, right?

I don't agree with this opinion as there are no evidences this is the right way to help this awesome piece of code.

Sometimes the community is the stronger factor in the long term.

 

did i say shut down mods no i just said the current model is unsustainable .. there will come a point where sales will fall off ... as far as i know ksp as been released for every major console and pc ... so right now they are able to release all these updates using the income generated from sales ... but what happens when the sales dry up ... and they have just look at the stats for kerbal on steam ... sales are winding down ... yes there are consoles that are generating sales ... but even those are slowing down because of the buggs the game got released with

so what happens now squad ask the dev team to work for free ... ????

exactly and you know the mod community is just that mods ... and as u seen squad are slowly introducing some of those mod ideas into the game ... isru for one and now remote techs idea for probes ...
and the mod community only came to be to add stuff that wasnt yet introduced into the game (you forget also all the good mods are actually made by squad employes anyway )

using kerbonite as an example the mod was made obsolete mostly with the launch of 1.0 is it still being used by most gamers YES is it still be developed by the mod creators YES ... so to say that paid dlcs will kill mods is not true

will remote tech still be used by gamers with the launch of 1.2 YES will it still be developed YES

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by tillyd

[Weasleking]

It is almost Wednesday in some parts of the world, where is the update?

As much as I hope the devs are getting a good nights sleep since it's the middle of the night PST, but surely they could've set up the update to roll out automatically? There is much sadness at 9:45PM AEST

[2p1]

1 minute ago, Weasleking said:

It is almost Wednesday in some parts of the world, where is the update?

As much as I hope the devs are getting a good nights sleep since it's the middle of the night PST, but surely they could've set up the update to roll out automatically? There is much sadness at 9:45PM AEST

That is Also my question Im Currently in Germany, does anybody knows the time of the release ?

I have the game on steam!