"There's no easy way to say this."

[Codraroll]

I'm not convinced to be all gloomy just yet. It could very well be that those guys were hired on a project basis, basically signed a contract for one KSP version at a time. Hired after 1.0.5 shipped, to work on 1.1 up to and including the subsequent bugfixes and patches (1.1.3). Then everybody's contract is up for renewal. Some sign up for 1.2, others don't. Once that is mostly done and ready for shipping, they ask the question again.

The people quitting now might have decided to leave as early as the 1.0 days. "One or two more versions, and then I'll move on to something else". They could have other jobs, or been offered new jobs, they felt they had given their contribution to KSP, they wanted to scale back a little, they may never had planned to stay for very long, there could be all sorts of reasons.

1.2 seems to be a point where Kerbal Space Program is a complete base game. Most bugs are cleared, there is enough content to make a meaningful play experience, the code base seems to work well, it's very mod-friendly... basically, everything from here on out would be expansions rather than base game content. The developers would have been asked to stay on while the game is taken in a new direction, or find it a suitable point to hop off the train. If I were a developer, I could see myself thinking that my work was done, and that other people might be more suited for the new phase of development. I'm not a developer, but a civil engineer, and I can't help but draw parallels to construction projects: After groundworks are done and a building foundation is poured, one contractor will pack up his stuff and leave, then a different contractor will build the building from the foundations up. And when the building is finished, shiny and empty, the interior decorators will take over.

If the reason why the devs left was tumultous, I think we would have heard about it already. I choose to remain optimistic for now, and believe they just found themselves at a point where it would be logical to put the game down and start on other projects elsewhere. With 1.2, KSP seems to be at a watershed point in its life cycle, so it's only natural that there will be large changes to the staff.

[klgraham1013]

3 minutes ago, regex said:

Anyway, I'm really hoping 1.2 will end up being a "stable" build so people can properly mod it rather than follow an endless update cycle.

If 1.2 ends up being the last version I need, I wouldn't be to upset.  I'm past the point of needing to upgrade as soon as the new shiny comes out.  Heck, I'm still on 1.0.4.

4 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

If the reason why the devs left was tumultous, I think we would have heard about it already.

NDAs can be a powerful thing.

[Theysen]

4 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

I'm not convinced to be all gloomy just yet. It could very well be that those guys were hired on a project basis, basically signed a contract for one KSP version at a time. Hired after 1.0.5 shipped, to work on 1.1 up to and including the subsequent bugfixes and patches (1.1.3). Then everybody's contract is up for renewal. Some sign up for 1.2, others don't. Once that is mostly done and ready for shipping, they ask the question again.

The people quitting now might have decided to leave as early as the 1.0 days. "One or two more versions, and then I'll move on to something else". They could have other jobs, or been offered new jobs, they felt they had given their contribution to KSP, they wanted to scale back a little, they may never had planned to stay for very long, there could be all sorts of reasons.

1.2 seems to be a point where Kerbal Space Program is a complete base game. Most bugs are cleared, there is enough content to make a meaningful play experience, the code base seems to work well, it's very mod-friendly... basically, everything from here on out would be expansions rather than base game content. The developers would have been asked to stay on while the game is taken in a new direction, or find it a suitable point to hop off the train. If I were a developer, I could see myself thinking that my work was done, and that other people might be more suited for the new phase of development. I'm not a developer, but a civil engineer, and I can't help but draw parallels to construction projects: After groundworks are done and a building foundation is poured, one contractor will pack up his stuff and leave, then a different contractor will build the building from the foundations up. And when the building is finished, shiny and empty, the interior decorators will take over.

If the reason why the devs left was tumultous, I think we would have heard about it already. I choose to remain optimistic for now, and believe they just found themselves at a point where it would be logical to put the game down and start on other projects elsewhere. With 1.2, KSP seems to be at a watershed point in its life cycle, so it's only natural that there will be large changes to the staff.

So much this. Thank you! 

[Galileo]

25 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I think it's become pretty clear that LS isn't happening.

I figured that was the case a while back.  Its great as a mod though. 

 

[Waxing_Kibbous]

26 minutes ago, IronCretin said:

From what I understood, the graphical update was going to include new rocket parts, but now that Porkjet's left, that's unsure.

Didn't they just hire (at least) one new artist? The visuals for the new engines are all laid out, somebody just needs to make them. Roverdude is a very competent modeler as well. Having been very involved in 3D 4, 5 years ago, I can say even back then there was a ton of talent "out there." Laying out the initial designs is the hard part, doing the modeling itself is pretty straightforward (I made my avatar-I'm not just making this stuff up). The new rocket parts will happen.

[electron2059]

Am sad to see them all go, but I understand how it goes with stuff like this. So far 1.2 has really felt like the game is complete.  I would love to see some of the team's mod's make it into the stock game to expand it ever further. Also love the interactions and feedback on the forum's and live streams. Hope everyone the best on their future endeavors.

Edited October 4, 2016 by electron2059
typo

[ZooNamedGames]

Yeah Squad, I'll learn how to game dev to join you guys. I'd love to join the team!!

[Tiberion]

So this surprised me quite a bit when I saw it (on PCGamesN no less)

 

I don't lurk here much anymore, or in the dev/mod chat channels.. but to me it looks like pretty much all of the people who "know" the game inside and out have just bounced. I know some of the QA guys surely know a lot of it, and maybe some of the new devs have been quick studies. But.. losing Mu? He literally made the universe go 'round - he wrote the planetary system. It's also hard to overstate how much NathanKell has done since he got on board. These guys have scoured systems and parts and modules and removed so much of the weirdness and buginess, and now that expertise is moving on.

So.. maybe this is the end of an era. Development can't go on forever obviously, and if KSP is close to being its "best" then maybe its time to celebrate a job well done and move on to whats next. Its not like it won't be kept fresh for years anyway due to modding.

So whatever happens.. its been a pretty awesome ride. It may be a little bittersweet, but its still hard to be too upset.

All of that aside...we owe those guys on the list big time for what they contributed to KSP. You guys rock.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Tiberion

[worir4]

2 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Yeah Squad, I'll learn how to game dev to join you guys. I'd love to join the team!!

Sorry but there are no vacancies at the moment. XD

[Alshain]

 

Quote

"Management issues high up" and "unsustainable working conditions" are likely a factor in the announcement, our source says.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/kerbal-space-program/ksp-developers-quit

[ZooNamedGames]

1 minute ago, worir4 said:

Sorry but there are no vacancies at the moment. XD

Then I'll volunteer. Money is nothing compared to the honor of working on this.

[CobraA1]

1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

I know that several of these guys have (had? I'll freely admit I don't know any of them well though I consider several of them "internet friends") full time real jobs, and it is at least possible that some of them are leaving because 1.2 proved to be too much actual work for a part time job. I've quit jobs for similar reasons in the past.

I've personally had a few contract jobs where the contract ended, and due to either real life issues, or to the organization not willing to renew the contract, had to go elsewhere. The optimist in me hopes this is just a case of maybe just a short term contract or something like that.

The pessimist in me says this is still a lot of people leaving - what's up with that?

Humm . . . followed a link from the reddit post that had some info about Squad and their employees, basically said that employees from other countries are easily underpaid because, to put it frankly: Mexico is a very poor country. $100 USD is the monthly minimum wage.

Obviously Squad pays a lot more than that, but we're probably still talking wages well below what's livable in developed countries.

For most modders that were hired, this would likely likely be "a summer job doing something I like just for some extra cash," rather than an actual full time / permanent position. It doesn't sound like it would actually pay enough to be a permanent position for people living in the USA or Europe.

It could be as simple as it's really awkward to have a software development studio in the middle of a nation that is heavily struggling economically.

Edited October 4, 2016 by CobraA1

[Alshain]

5 minutes ago, CobraA1 said:

It could be as simple as it's really awkward to have a software development studio in the middle of a nation that is heavily struggling economically.

Well, the Mexican economy is actually quite good right now.  I won't say it's stellar or anything, but it's good.

[Kerbal Kommander]

Development for squad could just be their foot in the door for the next big job. Just a stepping stone in the process.

[HoloYolo]

Just now, Alshain said:

Well, the Mexican economy is actually quite good right now.  I won't say it's stellar or anything, but it's good.

Not trying to be a moderator but I feel like we're starting to get into the border between acceptable and deletable. Let's pull it back,

[Kertech]

my plan is when 1.2 gets stable, I'm gonna make a few hard copies of it, gather mods for it and use it as a definitive version! 

 

Bit worried about the implication of free updates and expansion packs, not sure if there's something else going on

[Alshain]

Just now, HoloYolo said:

Not trying to be a moderator but I feel like we're starting to get into the border between acceptable and deletable. Let's pull it back,

I don't think there is a rule against discussing economics.  I mean it might be a little off topic, but not even very much that.

[LameLefty]

I get the impression the guys who are "leaving" were contractors hired to whip the code into shape for 1.2 and either chose not to continue (probably wanted more money) or were not asked to continue (Squad didn't want to keep paying them money). Either way, that's just the way things go. Personally, in my real job not running a pretend space program, I am licensed professional in my field and I work on a contract basis, job to job. Some contracts are a day, some a week, some a month and some even as long as a year or more ... People get added and let go from organizations all of the time.  Developers have come and gone from KSP in the past, so why would anyone be surprised it's happening now? 

They've done stellar work with the 1.2 update and I'm sorry these guys are leaving. Hopefully they all go onto bigger and better things, and selfishly, I hope they will at least update their staple of mods to include 1.2 compatibility. But either way, I wish them all the very best and offer my thanks. I've been playing KSP for three and a half years; I have those folks to thank for a lot of the fun I've had.

[Superfluous J]

12 minutes ago, CobraA1 said:

Humm . . . followed a link from the reddit post that had some info about Squad and their employees, basically said that employees from other countries are easily underpaid because, to put it frankly: Mexico is a very poor country. $100 USD is the monthly minimum wage.

Ironic quote from that link:

The departure of the eight developers was also posted to the official forums, but was taken down soon after. Our source suggests posts about the topic are being actively deleted.

I'm not saying they're wrong about everything, but I'm also saying bring some salt with you when you read it.

[Alshain]

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

Ironic quote from that link:

The departure of the eight developers was also posted to the official forums, but was taken down soon after. Our source suggests posts about the topic are being actively deleted.

I'm not saying they're wrong about everything, but I'm also saying bring some salt with you when you read it.

There was a forum post that disappeared.  I briefly saw it, when I clicked on it, it was gone.  Though it may have been the one that is there now and they decided to rewrite it or something.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Alshain

[katateochi]

wh....what? What is going on?! We get news of a set release date next week for 1.2 and simultaneously this.  I read the first page of this thread just waiting for the "ha it's just Squad pulling a prank" line, but it doesn't seem so. This is really concerning. 

[Superfluous J]

7 minutes ago, Alshain said:

There was a forum post that disappeared.  I briefly saw it, when I clicked on it, it was gone.  Though it may have been the one that is there now and they decided to rewrite it or something.

I don't know about that. I'm just saying, 70 replies in and this thread hasn't even been looked at sideways. I strongly suspect that's because we're all awesome and have kept it civil. Perhaps the thread/post you saw was inflammatory and was removed for that reason.

[AlphaMensae]

Aren't/weren't most of the KSP devs remote contractors anyway?  How many actually were working in Squad's HQ in Mexico City?  I I know Roverdude is a contractor, and Porkjet is in Germany;  looking at the others, NathanKell is in New York City (he appeared as a guest on the Das Valdez-EJ_SA Twitch stream from the Intrepid Museum), Arsonide is in Texas, I think Sarbian is in France, and Taniwha is in Japan.  On the 1.1 launch party streams with Das Valdez, the only Squad staff who appeared on camera were Dan, Pablo and Andrea on the first day, and Felipe himself on the second day.

If that PCGamesN report has any truth behind it, I can see the devs who left saw their job complete with 1.2--which does look like what 1.0 should have been--and decided that was it, time to head for greener pastures elsewhere.  Then again, it's also reasonable to think that they saw no furthur challenges in KSP, and again, look for something else.

[klgraham1013]

 

16 minutes ago, Kertech said:

my plan is when 1.2 gets stable, I'm gonna make a few hard copies of it, gather mods for it and use it as a definitive version! 

My thoughts right now.

[Binho]

Hmm, sad news. Personally, I had some suspicions something was going on with Porkjet at least, as he had been unusually quite these past few months. There was so little devnote news about the rocket part update week after week. Too bad too, I was really looking forward to that!

I didn't suspect everyone else was leaving too though! I have to say I'm nervous about the future of KSP now. At least Roverdude is still there, but for how long? New devs are fine, but none seem to be well known to the community. That doesn't mean they can't do a good job, but it leaves me fearful about where the game will go in the future.