[1.4+] BETA: Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.0 Release Candidate 1

[IgorZ]

On 6/11/2017 at 6:51 PM, V8jester said:

Igor, out of curiosity. Will the 1.0 winches be stronger at there connections? (At either the cable or the winch itself)

Currently in regular KAS the winches have been very easy to tear from there mounts or rip the cables out of the ports, since 1.2.1 or so.

I was able to increase the breaking force on the ports, effectively making them indestructible. But I haven't identified a fix for the winches themselves.

Well, it's actually a complicated question. In a nutshell, the strength should be stronger due to the new KAS joints use the same math for the breaking forces as the core KSP does. However, the strength of a single joint is not the only thing that matters. For the connections that can change their length restriction (e.g. the winch) and important metric is the speed at which the change is happening. The core game cannot help here, so I have to invent something to ease the initial forces.

What I can tell you for sure is that the rigid joins will be as strong as a regular part joints (e.g. between the ports). As for the cabled joints... we'll need more experiments  

[V8jester]

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Well, it's actually a complicated question. In a nutshell, the strength should be stronger due to the new KAS joints use the same math for the breaking forces as the core KSP does. However, the strength of a single joint is not the only thing that matters. For the connections that can change their length restriction (e.g. the winch) and important metric is the speed at which the change is happening. The core game cannot help here, so I have to invent something to ease the initial forces.

What I can tell you for sure is that the rigid joins will be as strong as a regular part joints (e.g. between the ports). As for the cabled joints... we'll need more experiments  

Ah, it's a shame that the system used has changed just enough to cause some adverse effects like this. Hopefully in time the winches will once again be as strong as they were

Yeah my 40+ ton cranes are pretty much useless for a bit. But I am loving the additions you have made!

[IgorZ]

8 hours ago, V8jester said:

Ah, it's a shame that the system used has changed just enough to cause some adverse effects like this. Hopefully in time the winches will once again be as strong as they were

Yeah my 40+ ton cranes are pretty much useless for a bit. But I am loving the additions you have made!

One of the problems that you should be experiencing with the increased mass is the cPort-to-vessel joint. Since it's a surface connection, it's much less strong than a stack connection is. I'd not be surprised if in your case you have the port ripped off. Honestly, not sure how it can be solved without inventing a custom joint module that would override the game's calculations. You may try using a larger node size for the port (change it in the part's config). Or, attach the port via the bottom stack node, iirc it's oriented in the same direction as the surface node.

[IgorZ]

KAS v1.0.6383.1326

 ihsoft released this 23 seconds ago

1.0 (June 23rd, 2017):

• [Fix #204] Link status is not restored on load.
• [Fix #205] Bad link state doesn't restore on load.
• [Fix #206] TJ-2 applies momentum on the vessel when linked.

Edited June 23, 2017 by IgorZ

[aleks_911007]

 

Есть хорошая идея, сделайте несколько креплений, галстук для жёсткой сцепки и регулятор длины. А такой метод, для буксировки опасен, нужен регулятор длинны или треугольный порт. Да вот ещё угол наклона плавным сделать надо. Очень давно ждал подобное супер! сделайте несколько креплений. Галстук для жёсткой сцепки и регулятор длины. А такой метод,  для буксировки опасен, нужен регулятор длинны или треугольный порт.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Vanamonde
Tidying up.

[Rodhern]

Using the TJ-1 / TJ-2 (Telescopic Joint) with a JS-1 (Joint Socket) for refueling gives a shorter range (about 2 meters) compared to the older KAS pipes. Is that on purpose to encourage more creative Infernal Robotics creations, or have I missed a more obvious KAS refueling option?

Edit: Oops, sorry, just noticed now that an RTS-1 flexible pipe is on the TBD list quoted in the OP.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Rodhern
the answer is in the OP - facepalm

[Blackline]

Is it possible, that the Kerbitrail FlexOTube from MKS won't work with the KAS Beta?

[KerbMav]

21 minutes ago, Blackline said:

Is it possible, that the Kerbitrail FlexOTube from MKS won't work with the KAS Beta?

It might very well be - just install the the "classic" version as well, they work fine in tandem.

[IgorZ]

One more teaser video for the new winches. There are still things to implement and fix.

The sound is a bit behind the video. It's not how it was in the game, just something with the codec during the recording.

[Drew Kerman]

33 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

There are still things to implement and fix.

like being able to winch up kerbals?

[Blackline]

On 31.7.2017 at 8:40 PM, KerbMav said:

It might very well be - just install the the "classic" version as well, they work fine in tandem.

Worked!

[IgorZ]

8 hours ago, Drew Kerman said:

like being able to winch up kerbals?

This is the easiest part. It's already done. The link breakage which you may see in the video is a testing condition. I has intentionally set the cable strength to the minimum to see how it's handled. In the old KAS if you manage to overload the cable, the winch will be ripped off the craft. In 1.0 I've implemented a special handling to workaround the game limitation.

The things that still need to be implemented is attaching the cable to another part and restoring of the persisted state. Plus, some visual glitches fixes.

[cgwhite4]

While attempting to bring one of the rovers for my EL-supported base on Tylo into the 200m area around two connected rovers used for fuel production and that were in existence prior to 1.3, a red message (something like "unable to restore link") appeared and the link between them failed.  Looks like another compatibility issue (similar to what happened after one of the 0.7.X patches when a module got changed).

Edit: Allowed the two rovers to disconnect and then did an SFS-edit to "override" the rover containing the extendable connector with a fresh version, and was able to reconnect the rovers and continue. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by cgwhite4
New information

[Vanamonde]

On 7/15/2017 at 4:45 PM, aleks_911007 said:

 

Есть хорошая идея, сделайте несколько креплений, галстук для жёсткой сцепки и регулятор длины. А такой метод, для буксировки опасен, нужен регулятор длинны или треугольный порт. Да вот ещё угол наклона плавным сделать надо. Очень давно ждал подобное супер! сделайте несколько креплений. Галстук для жёсткой сцепки и регулятор длины. А такой метод,  для буксировки опасен, нужен регулятор длинны или треугольный порт.

Please post in English when outside of the International subforum. 

Quote

There is a good idea, make a few bindings, a tie for a tight hitch and a length regulator. And this method, for towing is dangerous, you need a regulator long or a triangular port. Yes, here's another angle of slope smooth to do. A very long time for such a super! Make several fastenings. Tie for a rigid hitch and length adjuster. And this method, for towing is dangerous, you need a regulator long or a triangular port. 

And welcome to our forum.

[IgorZ]

KAS v1.0.6436.42780

 ihsoft released this just now

• Added initial version of the winch

This winch is a very basic version. So far it doesn't support a lot of features:

• There is no dock ability.
• There is no eject ability.
• There is no GUI.
• You cannot attach anything to the winch in the editor.
• The winch UI is minimalistic for now.

Look for the winch in the KAS CCK category in the editor. The name's "W-1 Winch". It looks exactly the same as the old winch, so do not confuse it. This is a very preliminary version of the winch which will be changed. Don't use it in the carrier games, since the further versions will be incompatible with the saves.

@V8jester, looking forward to see results of your experiments with the winch. Now you can adjust the cable spring and strength independently. Moreover, when the cable is broken due to too big strain, the winch won't get ripped off the craft. What should happen, is just a detaching the connector.

NOTE. Only after the release went out and the video is done, I've figured out that the strings on JS-1 are screwed (it shows strings from the TJ-1 part). It will be fixed in the next release. Fpr now either take it as is, or download and replace the part.cfg file from here.

I put on hold this project for a while. The other mods need my attention (localization support). And don't worry, I don't stop working on this mod!   It's just a time managing.

[V8jester]

Fantastic! Thanks @IgorZ

I'll be looking forward to having a look at your handiwork. Does the strength of a winch scale along with its size if using Tweakscale? Something I have been curious to build is a tug boat hooked to a large ship with two cables. (Very heavy / very large builds. So this one is really just more of a torture test) I could rip 2 of the old winches right off with no effort at all.

[ioresult]

On 17/10/2016 at 1:53 AM, IgorZ said:

• Wire rope part (PCB-1) demo: http://i.imgur.com/usqOO4s.jpg

Where did you get that hologram table part?

[IgorZ]

50 minutes ago, V8jester said:

I'll be looking forward to having a look at your handiwork. Does the strength of a winch scale along with its size if using Tweakscale? Something I have been curious to build is a tug boat hooked to a large ship with two cables. (Very heavy / very large builds. So this one is really just more of a torture test) I could rip 2 of the old winches right off with no effort at all.

Tweakscale is not supported for now. That's another step to do once the mod's feature parity is achieved. If you need a larger version of the winch, try copying/updating the part's config. Note, that there are parameters that refer model specific objects. Those may need to be updated if you change the scale of the model. In theory, if you adjust a part's rescale factor, the model should be fine, but I never tested it.

27 minutes ago, ioresult said:

Where did you get that hologram table part?

It's from one of the beta Kerbal hacks mod releases. Not sure if the holo was officially released, though.

 

[MrMeeb]

 

- Deleted - Found where I was going wrong

Edited August 18, 2017 by MrMeeb

[cgwhite4]

Upon attempting to bring the final rover into my base on Tylo to complete it, I encountered an aesthetic anomaly.  The connectors between my remaining rovers appeared as though they had become disconnected when the rover in question came within 200m of them (I have experienced such issues in the past, particularly on Eve).  However, this time, upon checking the connectors themselves, the options that were displayed clearly indicated that they were, in fact, still connected.  Disconnecting and reconnecting the affected TJ-2's corrected the problem.  This was the first time I did anything with that base since the most recent KAS 1.0 patch (6436.42780) came out, so I suspect this issue had something to do with it.  My current mods are MM 2.8.1, KAS 0.6.3, KAS Beta/New 1.0 (most recent patch), EL 5.8.2, and KJR 3.3.3.

If anyone sees TJ-2 connectors that appear to have disconnected for no apparent reason after installing 6436.42780, they may not actually have disconnected, particularly if you would expect them to slide in relation to each other if they were disconnected and they are not doing so.  This aesthetic bug can easily be cleared, provided you are not on such a slope that disconnecting the TJ-2 will cause the objects to slide in relation to each other, possibly preventing the connection from being restored.

Edit: The issue recurs after exiting the game and returning.  Workaround is only temporarily effective.

Edited August 20, 2017 by cgwhite4
Bug recurred.

[IgorZ]

On 8/20/2017 at 1:18 PM, cgwhite4 said:

Upon attempting to bring the final rover into my base on Tylo to complete it, I encountered an aesthetic anomaly.  The connectors between my remaining rovers appeared as though they had become disconnected when the rover in question came within 200m of them (I have experienced such issues in the past, particularly on Eve).  However, this time, upon checking the connectors themselves, the options that were displayed clearly indicated that they were, in fact, still connected.  Disconnecting and reconnecting the affected TJ-2's corrected the problem.  This was the first time I did anything with that base since the most recent KAS 1.0 patch (6436.42780) came out, so I suspect this issue had something to do with it.  My current mods are MM 2.8.1, KAS 0.6.3, KAS Beta/New 1.0 (most recent patch), EL 5.8.2, and KJR 3.3.3.

If anyone sees TJ-2 connectors that appear to have disconnected for no apparent reason after installing 6436.42780, they may not actually have disconnected, particularly if you would expect them to slide in relation to each other if they were disconnected and they are not doing so.  This aesthetic bug can easily be cleared, provided you are not on such a slope that disconnecting the TJ-2 will cause the objects to slide in relation to each other, possibly preventing the connection from being restored.

Edit: The issue recurs after exiting the game and returning.  Workaround is only temporarily effective.

Alas, this is what I meant by "compatibility is not guaranteed". In the latest patch the JS part has been changed to support the winch. I would suggest that the permanent workaround may look like this:

1. Install back the previous patch.
2. Go into the save file and disconnect all the KAS 1.0 joints.
3. Save.
4. Update to the latest patch and load.
5. Restore the connections.
6. Save.

No guarantees, though.

If you find this problem on a freshly created vessel (i.e. created and launched on the latest patch), please, let me know. It could be a bug!

[cgwhite4]

The rover I just brought into my base on Tylo (which contains an EL-launchpad) was created and launched after 6436.42780 came out.  It is on the JS-1 side of any connections which are made to it.  When I connected it to the metal resource handling rovers (EL-supported base) and then switched to the fuel resource handling rovers in order to move them into position to be connected to the launchpad, the newly formed connection between new JS-1 and old TJ-2 suffered the aesthetic anomaly.  Furthermore, I then "respawned" (by disconnecting from all other rovers, creating a new version at Kerbin, and then doing an SFS-edit to replace the old version on Tylo with the new one) the fuel resource handling rover that is meant to connect directly to the launchpad-containing rover (this one contains an ISRU from EL), and after moving it into position, made the appropriate connection with it.  When I then switched to the other fuel resource handling rover (contains drills from EL) which will need to be connected to the one I just respawned, the newly formed connection between new TJ-2 of the ISRU-containing rover and new JS-1 from the launchpad-containing rover also suffered the aesthetic anomaly.

Edit: The same thing happened after connecting the rover with the drills to the rest of the rover system to the connection formed in the process.  The rover with the drills was also "respawned" prior to making the connections.  By using the blue and orange illumination of the crew transfer system, I was able to confirm that all connections were still actually attached, and was able to wrap up the mission.  That brings my base on Tylo fully online, so I'll be shifting my attention to colonizing Eeloo and upgrading my base on Vall (which consists of landers attached via winches).  However, my base on Laythe uses rovers, so I should eventually need to perform similar operations there, and I expect to encounter the same issue again on Laythe should it not be patched prior to that point.

Edited August 26, 2017 by cgwhite4
Bug observed again

[IgorZ]

On 8/26/2017 at 8:16 AM, cgwhite4 said:

The rover I just brought into my base on Tylo (which contains an EL-launchpad) was created and launched after 6436.42780 came out.  It is on the JS-1 side of any connections which are made to it.  When I connected it to the metal resource handling rovers (EL-supported base) and then switched to the fuel resource handling rovers in order to move them into position to be connected to the launchpad, the newly formed connection between new JS-1 and old TJ-2 suffered the aesthetic anomaly.  Furthermore, I then "respawned" (by disconnecting from all other rovers, creating a new version at Kerbin, and then doing an SFS-edit to replace the old version on Tylo with the new one) the fuel resource handling rover that is meant to connect directly to the launchpad-containing rover (this one contains an ISRU from EL), and after moving it into position, made the appropriate connection with it.  When I then switched to the other fuel resource handling rover (contains drills from EL) which will need to be connected to the one I just respawned, the newly formed connection between new TJ-2 of the ISRU-containing rover and new JS-1 from the launchpad-containing rover also suffered the aesthetic anomaly.

Edit: The same thing happened after connecting the rover with the drills to the rest of the rover system to the connection formed in the process.  The rover with the drills was also "respawned" prior to making the connections.  By using the blue and orange illumination of the crew transfer system, I was able to confirm that all connections were still actually attached, and was able to wrap up the mission.  That brings my base on Tylo fully online, so I'll be shifting my attention to colonizing Eeloo and upgrading my base on Vall (which consists of landers attached via winches).  However, my base on Laythe uses rovers, so I should eventually need to perform similar operations there, and I expect to encounter the same issue again on Laythe should it not be patched prior to that point.

Yeah, there is indeed a problem in restoring the renderer state of the joints. I've created a bug.

[B-STRK]

Hi IgorZ, I'd like to ask if there's a way for the joint parts and socket to be made manufacturable in the OSE Workshop mod? I could not find the TJ-1 or 2, the TB-60, or JS-1 in its build menu (but could find the PCB-1, though). I'm not sure if the answer would lie with the OSE mod or with KAS-beta (whether the parts have to be exposed to OSE from this end, or OSE needs to be able to recognize these parts from its end), so I'm asking here as well as in the OSE forum just in case. Thanks!

[Aelfhe1m]

6 hours ago, B-STRK said:

Hi IgorZ, I'd like to ask if there's a way for the joint parts and socket to be made manufacturable in the OSE Workshop mod? I could not find the TJ-1 or 2, the TB-60, or JS-1 in its build menu (but could find the PCB-1, though). I'm not sure if the answer would lie with the OSE mod or with KAS-beta (whether the parts have to be exposed to OSE from this end, or OSE needs to be able to recognize these parts from its end), so I'm asking here as well as in the OSE forum just in case. Thanks!

Just loaded up a test instance with just OSE, KAS 1.0 and dependencies. The JS-1, TB-60, TJ-1 and TJ-2 are in the structural tab of the workshop:

Spoiler