How Can I earn Science?

[Zpike]

As you have most likely figured out, I'm a new Kerbal Player and i'm playing in career mode.

I'm finding it difficult to earn science points.  I spotted a post from someone talking about "science bombing" the Mun?  Can someone explain?

I went around with the science kit, thermometer, barometer, did EVA's, etc.. and have run out of places I can get to for log data.  Is there a way to earn more science than just running a mission that gives me 10 or so at a time?

What's the best way to earn science?

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Zpike

[James Kerman]

You get more science per experiment the further away from Kerbin you are.
If you have a scientist onboard you can reset the Science Jr and Mysterygoo experiments.  Any Kerbal can remove the other experiments and they don't need to be reset.  You can go from one biome with a scientist and take the data from these experiments and store them in a capsule or the new data storage module.  Then you move to the next biome and repeat.

[NotAgain]

Right. If you're only running your experiments on Kerbin, it won't return much science. Also, most experiments give you more science if you recover them or their data on Kerbin instead of transmitting it using an antenna. Also, upgrade the astronaut complex ASAP to let you take surface samples. A good rule of thumb is "The more difficult it was to get to, the more valuable the science is."

Good luck.

[Magzimum]

The "Science bombing" is done by more experienced players who will visit multiple spots on the Mun during 1 trip. If you can build a lander that can make some 'hops' on the Mun then you can do this too (i.e. take off and land several kilometers further for a 2nd visit, in a different biome).

My recommendation is to just do several roundtrips to the Mun. The contracts will keep coming, and you can keep getting science.

Also, realize that you can get science from space near Kerbin, and high above Kerbin... and the atmosphere is also divided into the lower and upper atmosphere. So you can get science from all those!  

[Garrett Kerman]

Fly by the mun and collect science. Repeat with Minmus. That gives about 1000~ish science. If you require moar, go land on them. I filled out my tech tree this way. Also, some contacts reward science as well.

[Johnny Wishbone]

26 minutes ago, Magzimum said:

Also, realize that you can get science from space near Kerbin, and high above Kerbin... and the atmosphere is also divided into the lower and upper atmosphere. So you can get science from all those!  

The atmosphere delineator on Kerbin is 18,000m (18km). Below 18km is lower atmosphere, above that is upper atmosphere until you hit space at 70,000m (70km).

The space delineator around Kerbin is 250,000m (250km). Between 70km and 250km is space near Kerbin. above that is space high above Kerbin.

Since the Mun and Minmus don't have atmosphere, once you leave the surface, you are in space "near" the body. I forget the exact delineators for Mun and Minmus, but I think it's somewhere around 25km or 30km. Same concept applies to other celestial bodies.

[Zpike]

Thanks everyone, excellent advise.

I shall endeavor to science on.

[Leafbaron]

First off welcome! always glad to see a new player getting involved! 

I find that going to Minmus is much easier than the Mun. Even though it is on an inclined orbit. for about 100 m/s more dv you can go to minmus but when you get ther it requires much less dv to capture and land. If you mess up the landing and fall sideways the gravity is so low, most reaction wheels will give enough torque to right the ship. Easily identifiable biomes to boot, that are perfectly flat to land on. If you make a lander for the Mun that is capable of returning to kerbin from the surface of the mun, expect that same vessel to be able to do 2-4 biome hops on Minmus. I start by getting in a highly inclined orbit and collecting all the EVA science from the biomes (Minmus also rotates faster than the Mun so this can be done easier). I then land on either pole and biome hop my way to the equator for an easy return burn to Kerbin. This will net you about 2500 science in one trip! (assuming you have mystery goo, science jr. barometer, and temperature. More if you have the seismic experiment.)

-leafy

[Wjolcz]

Don't bother, OP. Better take a look into the thread in my sig if you really want to enjoy the career.

I'm not trying to be a career fürher here. People seem to enjoy the stock science grind, for some odd reason. Just saying that IMO stock career mode sucks. <- personal opinion

Edited November 28, 2016 by Veeltch

[Vanamonde]

This question about how to play the game has been moved to Gameplay Questions. 

[DD_bwest]

Earning science is easier than it seems, and before you know it, if you plan right, every mission will bring back a nice return.

Science is earned by running a science experiment, a crew report, EVA report, or a surface sample.  and all of these can be done again for each biome. each planet or moon has their own surface biomes and for low orbit and high orbit, and an atmosphere will add a flying low and flying high,  the wiki on the science http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science has a few charts towards the bottom that will help you out.  when you are planning a contract or any mission, think about where you are going to go and which biomes you are going to encounter that you havent before.  youll soon realize that even simple missions can end up going through alot, done right you can be almost done the tech tree in but a few missions.

One of the simpler ways to get a good return, are EVA reports.  When your in orbit of a planet, every biome you pass over will give you a chance to generate a new one to stash away in your pod.  if you plan with polar orbits, you can pretty much hit every biome.  but even with equatorial ones youll pass over alot.  the Mun has 17 biomes you can do that in so it adds up nicely.

If you are sending a pod somewhere, id doesnt hurt to attach a thermometer and a barometer to it so you can run a test and have your kerbal pull the results.

If you put a probe onto a lander for SAS, you can send a scientist to do the landing and reset any material bays or goo cans, only to boune to another biome near by before going to orbit.   there are some spots on the moons that youll have a bunch of biomes relatively close.

edit: and surface samples are worth alot, so make sure you grab one anytime you are landing with a kerbal.  even grabbing them from around kerbin help.  if you have a kerbal on a mun but you cant take a sample, its because you havent upgraded your research lab enough.  but if you have the cash, even if he is standing on the surface, you can go back to the space center, upgrade it, and he will be able to grab a sample lol

and i disagree with some who say its a grind.. ive completed the tech tree in 4 missions before lol

Edited November 29, 2016 by DD_bwest

[bewing]

Just to clarify the details -- you mostly get science from biomes. At the very beginning of the game on Kerbin there are 14 building biomes at KSC where you can collect science with your devices. There are an additional 4 "natural" biomes within walking distance of KSC. There is an area near the north pole (including a lake and the surrounding area) with 11 natural biomes. (I'm including both "splashed" and "landed".) There's an area at the very west tip of the KSC continent with four. Once you've upgraded all the buildings on Kerbin, there are a grand total of 54 biome areas on Kerbin that I know of to collect science, with a grand total of about 2800 science points in normal mode, IIRC. It is somewhat tedious to fly around and collect them all, but you can get most of it in two tours around KSC, plus two flights to the north pole -- which really isn't too bad. So if you are running short on Kerbin, I'd bet there are some places you still haven't looked yet.

The Mun has 16 or so biomes, but they are rather hard to get to.

Minmus has 9, and they are extremely easy to get to, and they are worth a lot -- but once you've used those ones up, you need to find more somewhere else.

lake:

Edited November 29, 2016 by bewing

[Clipperride]

Here's a link to the first in a series of career mode YouTube tutorials by Marcus House.  I found them useful when I first started playing career mode. Once you have unlocked the first few tech tree nodes, you should be well on your way to the Mun and Minmus.  It might also be worth having a look at the Biome maps for the Mun and Minmus.

 

[Sharpy]

Definitely seconding everyone on Minmus. With a moderately complex rover you can collect science from 4 or so biomes easily, and each of them is a good 1000 points of science worth. With a good, rugged rover I visited all biomes of Minmus in one evening.

Note: unlock tech tree nodes that give you "experiment" parts. Gravitational scan and Seismic scan are roughly worth 3x as much as temperature or pressure measurements.

 

Also, if you've already gotten some decent antennas, send interplanetary probes. Maybe even landers.

[Gianni1122]

I believe @bewing mentioned this but I'll elaborate bc this is extremely useful for new career mode games.

Near every building at the Kerbal Space Center (VAB,SPH, R&D etc.) you can run all your available science experiments to gain copious amounts of early game science.

I.e. Build a rover with all your experiments on board (and a few of the new science containers) and drive it to every building you see performing all experiments at each one along the way. Also drive away from the building to run experiments (on the "shores" or "grasslands") and do the same while IN the water.

This is BY FAR the easiest way to get career science at the start.

EDIT: I wasn't sure if "I went around with the science kit" was what @Zpike was referring to as doing the KSC science run so I mentioned it anyway.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Gianni1122

[Loren Pechtel]

On 11/28/2016 at 10:26 AM, Zpike said:

As you have most likely figured out, I'm a new Kerbal Player and i'm playing in career mode.

I'm finding it difficult to earn science points.  I spotted a post from someone talking about "science bombing" the Mun?  Can someone explain?

I went around with the science kit, thermometer, barometer, did EVA's, etc.. and have run out of places I can get to for log data.  Is there a way to earn more science than just running a mission that gives me 10 or so at a time?

What's the best way to earn science?

 

Some ideas on collecting a lot of science:

1)  Take a craft with every experiment you have unlocked (there's a lot more than you list!), put an engineer on on it.  Head to the Mun and go into a high polar orbit.  Collect science.  Drop to a low orbit (still polar), there's a lot more science to collect.  This collection will go much easier if you have Automated Science Sampler installed (it does the checking to see when it's time to run an experiment but it doesn't do anything you can't do manually.)  If you orbit for long enough you fly over every biome.

2)  Same thing on Minmus.

Unlock some experiments, go back and repeat.

3)  When there's nothing more to be had that way it's time to land.  (I've always managed to have all the experiments unlocked at this point).  Your target should be Minmus as it's much easier to land there.

Send two spacecraft.  Craft #1 is built around a lander can and has every experiment you have on it.  I go with a design with three or four tanks/engines mounted around the can--while a wide/short craft is ugly on the way up from Kerbin it's much easier to deal with landing.  Again, put an engineer on it.  Put a docking port on it, good RCS.  Craft #2 simply has a lot of fuel and a docking port.

Aim your lander for a spot near biome junctions.  Land, grab what you can, hop across the line and repeat.  Pick another two biomes you haven't visited and repeat.  When you're low on fuel go up to the tanker.  When you're done go into orbit.

Note that this craft can't survive the fire, it's in space until something happens to it.  Next time I'm taking a tourist bus there I leave an open seat.  Rendezvous and have the engineer come back EVA, taking the science has he goes.

Repeat at the Mun.  You'll need more fuel, though.

For Minmus one tanker is plenty, for the Mun I have tried an approach based on a craft with mining capability.  It worked in the sense that it could gather science from the entire Mun without support but it was such a pig to fly that I'm not inclined to go that route again.

[Sharpy]

4 hours ago, Loren Pechtel said:

 

1)  Take a craft with every experiment you have unlocked (there's a lot more than you list!), put an engineer on on it.

 

uh, why?

[bewing]

He meant scientist. It was just a typo.

[wumpus]

DON'T FORGET THE "SCIENCE DANCE".

There is an annoying feature that only one type of each science can be stored in the kerbal's hands or in the crew cabin.  So everytime you EVA, pick the "take the science" from the cockpit (typically crew reports) and store them [a clickable option] (in some magic "infinite science storage" that isn't inside the cabin).  You need to do this with every new science.  This is how you manage to rack up all EVAs over all the biomes when orbiting Kebin the first time (well most of them, you need a polar orbit to hit all of them).

If you follow career mode to the Mun (I'd still recommend Minmus, it is easier and wildly easier to land multiple* times for massive science) you can still pop out for an EVA and collect the EVA report every time it looks like you might be over a different biome (especially big craters, they are almost always a biome).

I'd go so far as to call the "science dance" an annoying bug that needs to be fixed, but Squad apparently doesn't agree (they've created more science containers, presumably for science spamming with the MPL**).

* hitting all the biomes usually requires refueling.  Don't expect to pull it off your first time there (thanks to the way the tech tree works).  If it really is your *first* time there, don't worry about multiple landings, but try to remember to EVA a number of times while orbiting whatever body you want to land on.  Also those moons are *big*: you don't want to use land travel to get to other biomes.  Jetpacks do work well on Minmus, but I'd advise to save early and often before trying that as a beginner.  If it doesn't work, the important thing is to revert to where you were and get the kerbals home with the science of at least one biome.

**  The MPL is significantly further down the tech tree.  You can decide whether you want to use it to grind when you get there.

[Loren Pechtel]

5 hours ago, bewing said:

He meant scientist. It was just a typo.

I call such mistakes thinkos.  You're right, I meant scientist.

27 minutes ago, wumpus said:

* hitting all the biomes usually requires refueling.  Don't expect to pull it off your first time there (thanks to the way the tech tree works).  If it really is your *first* time there, don't worry about multiple landings, but try to remember to EVA a number of times while orbiting whatever body you want to land on.  Also those moons are *big*: you don't want to use land travel to get to other biomes.  Jetpacks do work well on Minmus, but I'd advise to save early and often before trying that as a beginner.  If it doesn't work, the important thing is to revert to where you were and get the kerbals home with the science of at least one biome.

That's why I said to do the orbital science before landing.  At the lower difficulty levels at least the orbital science from both bodies is enough to unlock all the instruments.

[DD_bwest]

Hitting all Low orbit eva reports for any target really isnt that difficult if you go with a polar orbit,  Especially if you google for a biome map of your target.   and the amount of dV needed to transfer from the mun to minmus is also pretty small.  Putting those together, its really not that hard(although seemingly if you are new) to get all the orbital science for both mun and minmus(minus the gravioli) on your first visit.

While its possible to land on the mun or minmus the first time you are there, i find in almost all cases its better for you to wait and plan it on a different launch since the science you can get from the first trip can get you the accelerometer,  which will help mountains for when you head back to land.  On normal i think its like 100 points per report.
 

On normal, your first launch can get you the first 5 science nodes.   5 goo cans(launch pad, flying low, upper atmo, space low, your landing biome) 3 crew reports(launch pad, space low, your landing biome) and 3 eva (launch pad, landing biome, flying over landing biome)

your second launch can get you another 5.  2 goo cans (landing biome, space high),4 crew reports (flying low, upper atmo, space high, landing biome). 15 Eva reports (upper atmo, space high, all low orbit biomes, landing biome and flying over landing biome). 7 thermo reports (launch pad, flying low shores, upper atmo, space low, space high, flying over landing biome, landing biome),6 barometer (launchpad, flying low, upper atmo, space low, space high, landing biome)

third launch wil be the first trip to Mun and minmus, aswell as leaving kerbins SOI.  10 material bays(launch pad, flying low, upper atmo, space low, space high, Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high) 5 goo can, (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high), 5 crew reports (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high) 29 eva reports (mun high and all 17 mun low orbits, minmus high and all 9 minmus low orbit, kerbol high, 5 thermo (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high) 5 baro (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high).    Now i think thats all of them.

with the science from those 3 launches on normal, you will have everything you need to land on all 17, and all 9 biomes of Mun and minmus, with all the science except for the gravioli, in a single launch,  which will leave you after 4 launches with around 1500science points remaining.   You can give your 4th launch extra fuel and plan to fly it by duna and ike after all your landings, and grab the last bit of science to finish the tree,

remember to head back to the space center between landings and check the contracts,  very often the plant flag ones will pop up and youll be able to completed 10+ of these with just your 4th launch.

[WanderingKid]

6 hours ago, DD_bwest said:

Third launch wil be the first trip to Mun and minmus, aswell as leaving kerbins SOI.  10 material bays(launch pad, flying low, upper atmo, space low, space high, Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high) 5 goo can, (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high), 5 crew reports (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high) 29 eva reports (mun high and all 17 mun low orbits, minmus high and all 9 minmus low orbit, kerbol high, 5 thermo (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high) 5 baro (Mun low, Mun high, minus low, minmus high, kerbol high).    Now i think thats all of them.

Be careful with this ploy.  You lose out on a LOT of easy cash from the world records contracts but you have to be gentle with them, and getting the cash to upgrade to this size of a ship can be almost unreasonable on anything but easy mode.  The tactics above are great for old science career, but current funded career requiring base upgrades slows down your 'high speed' progression significantly.

Might as well work with it.  Get used to working with less and your game will be both more fun and you'll be a stronger player to boot.

[DD_bwest]

8 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

Be careful with this ploy.  You lose out on a LOT of easy cash from the world records contracts but you have to be gentle with them, and getting the cash to upgrade to this size of a ship can be almost unreasonable on anything but easy mode.  The tactics above are great for old science career, but current funded career requiring base upgrades slows down your 'high speed' progression significantly.

Might as well work with it.  Get used to working with less and your game will be both more fun and you'll be a stronger player to boot.

I did this just over a month ago.   There is easy cash with those contracts, but you can more then make up for it by abusing the flag planting contracts on your next launch and The bonuses you get for doing things the first time can help make that up aswell.  if you place a command ship in orbit of either mun or minmus, you can go to the space center and look at contracts, there is almost certainly a flag contract worth 50k advance and 100k completion, if there isnt you can warp a few days and there will be one.  then go make you landing and return to orbit.  go back to the space center and repeat the process.  I made the decision to do it that way so that i would ensure i unlocked the accellerometer before my 4th launch, as i needed the few k science points it would provide by reports in every mun and minmus biome.

also the ship size needed for the 3rd launch really isnt that much and that expensive. The trick is to make sure you get propulsion systems from your second launch. and you can get an extra 40k if you go back to the space center on your first orbit before you come down, as there will be a contract to return from orbit. and also keep an eye out for returning science, which will be happening anyways.  oh and you dont upgrade your mission control or tracking until after your in orbit of mun,  so its not exactly for anyone who has no idea what they are doing.    once you get in orbit of mun tho you should have enough to go back and upgrade them so that transfering between moons wont be as bad

the method i described isnt really needed lol its just the way to complete the entire tech tree in the fewest possible launches within a normal career.   that being 4 as i havent found a way to do it in 3 yet lol.

[WanderingKid]

2 hours ago, DD_bwest said:

also the ship size needed for the 3rd launch really isnt that much and that expensive. The trick is to make sure you get propulsion systems from your second launch. and you can get an extra 40k if you go back to the space center on your first orbit before you come down, as there will be a contract to return from orbit. and also keep an eye out for returning science, which will be happening anyways.  oh and you dont upgrade your mission control or tracking until after your in orbit of mun,  so its not exactly for anyone who has no idea what they are doing.    once you get in orbit of mun tho you should have enough to go back and upgrade them so that transfering between moons wont be as bad

I see the difference between us, you're on Normal.

That's heavily skewing our different perceptions, as I play on hard.  The ship you describe above, Mk1 pod/16 chute, Heat shield for re-entry from Minmus, separator (assuming I get out and get all the science), 5 goo cans and 10 Mat Juniors is 24 parts by itself (That payload weighs in at 3.565t too). 

This means you're absolutely upgrading your VAB and Launchpad (you're not launching that in 18 tons with enough d/v) before you launch the third ship, which runs 550,000 in hard, as well as upgrading the Astronaut training center for another 150,000 for EVAs, so 700,000 before you even build the ship.  The ship itself is a pittance compared to this, of course, but just the payload costs 28,122.

After that, you're looking at twin upgrades to the Science center, which costs in the realm of 4 million, to spend all those points.  That alone is worth milking every 'first event' contract I can get my grubby mitts on, as well as working on a skintight budget while getting science... which I just remembered is also at 60% of normal's intake, so the science itself adds up differently as well.

You had me rather confused, as I'm currently writing a walkthrough for doing Hard Career and I was banging my head going "How the hell are they PAYING for all of that?!"   Well, that and I hate sitting there for ages waiting for EVA targets to get underneath me.  ONE orbit, then I'm outta there.

I'm also intrigued by your preference on getting to Propulsion Systems.  There's only two engines there, the Ant and the Spark.  The Spark has value, absolutely, but there's a weight difference where the Terrier's stronger ISP comes into play over the 0.4 tons the spark saves you, and it's around 8 tons. That's merely a pair of FL-T400s attached to the science payload (since you didn't mention fuel systems, which means you can't crossfeed yet for an asparagus build).

If you get a chance, can you take some screens of your ship?  I'm very curious.

Side note: You're counting Kerbin Space High twice for things like goo between trips two and three if I'm reading what you wrote correctly, but that's not exactly critical here.

Edited December 8, 2016 by WanderingKid

[DD_bwest]

57 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

I see the difference between us, you're on Normal.

That's heavily skewing our different perceptions, as I play on hard.  The ship you describe above, Mk1 pod/16 chute, Heat shield for re-entry from Minmus, separator (assuming I get out and get all the science), 5 goo cans and 10 Mat Juniors is 24 parts by itself (That payload weighs in at 3.565t too). 

This means you're absolutely upgrading your VAB and Launchpad (you're not launching that in 18 tons with enough d/v) before you launch the third ship, which runs 550,000 in hard, as well as upgrading the Astronaut training center for another 150,000 for EVAs, so 700,000 before you even build the ship.  The ship itself is a pittance compared to this, of course, but just the payload costs 28,122.

After that, you're looking at twin upgrades to the Science center, which costs in the realm of 4 million, to spend all those points.  That alone is worth milking every 'first event' contract I can get my grubby mitts on, as well as working on a skintight budget while getting science.

You had me rather confused, as I'm currently writing a walkthrough for doing Hard Career and I was banging my head going "How the hell are they PAYING for all of that?!"   Well, that and I hate sitting there for ages waiting for EVA targets to get underneath me.  ONE orbit, then I'm outta there.

I'm also intrigued by your preference on getting to Propulsion Systems.  There's only two engines there, the Ant and the Spark.  The Spark has value, absolutely, but there's a weight difference where the Terrier's stronger ISP comes into play over the 0.4 tons the spark saves you, and it's around 8 tons. That's merely a pair of FL-T400s attached to the science payload (since you didn't mention fuel systems, which means you can't crossfeed yet for an asparagus build).

If you get a chance, can you take some screens of your ship?  I'm very curious.

Side note: You're counting Kerbin Space High twice for things like goo between trips two and three if I'm reading what you wrote correctly, but that's not exactly critical here.

I have a bunch of hard careers, I was just doing that on normal to see how little i could do it in.  It was the result of a discussion with a friend about the best first 3 launches you could do on normal, and after a bit of mucking around i got my first 3 to almost what i described, and he goofed asking it it could be completed in 5, which was my initial goal.  I got it down to 4 tho when i realized my design over did it on fuel for all the landings, and i had just enough to swing by duna and ike.

abusing flag contracts is still a great way to make money, another thing i can say for "how are they paying for that?"   is similar to what you said about being gentle with it.  its a very good idea to go back to the space center constantly and see if there is a contract for you to do something your going to essentially be doing anyways.  As soon as you have been to a target, contracts are available for it.  so if you have a contract to go to Mun, orbit and come back.  when you get there, go to the space center and you will have a contract asking to bring back science, if its not there a warp for a few days will bring it.    

as per side note: Its probably my punctuation confusing it, the 3rd launch only goo cans mun, minmus and kerbol biomes, since the second launch takes kerbin space high.

and ofcourse all the EVA reports for flying low over a biome is simply jumping and hitting EVA report in the air lol

i should have all my ships from that whole thing saved so ill see if i can grab some shots.   The 4th looked kinda.. well it got the job done lol

Edited December 8, 2016 by DD_bwest