[1.2.x] EVE-acuation (design challenge)

[Dr. Jet]

Scenario:

Kerbal astronomers have discovered few F-sized (extra-large) asteroids that are going to "rendezvous" with Eve. It would be just an amazing spectacle to watch if there was not a kerbal colony (6 kerbals at least) functioning at the shore of Explodium sea. Regardless will it be a direct asteroid hit or not - you'll have just one try at the nearest launch window to launch something and evacuate all colonists at once before they will get smashed, crashed, exploded or flushed away by gigantic tidal wave.

Report must have:

1. Mod list.
2. At least one screenshot of colony you are rescuing and the number of colonists it contains.
3. Lander parameters.
4. "Pics, or it did not happen" © .

Craft files (or KerbalX.com links) are not obligatory, but are very welcome.

Mods recommended:

1. TAC Life Support (or another balanced LS).
2. MechJeb or KOS. It's a DESIGN challenge, not a piloting skill challenge. MechJeb is assumed to be used. Manual control will have a small design reward though and KOS control - some more noticeable reward.

Mods allowed:

1. HyperEdit is allowed for accurately placing your colony on the shores. It's not "build a colony" mission afterall. Other usage will be penalised.
2. KIS, KAS, KJR and other utility mods.
3. Any design assistance tools.
4. Any part mods that aren't disallowed.

Mods disallowed:

1. Anything with atmospheric nuclear engines.
2. Anything with airships/baloons.
3. Anything with special Eve-optimized engines.
4. Anything with FTL engines and other highly imbalanced parts.
5. Anything that changes Eve size, gravity or atmoshere.

Additional rules:

1. No external seats are allowed. Even if they are shielded by cargo bay or fairing. Unnecessary risk is not an option on rescue mission.
2. Pods and passenger parts lighter than 840 kg per kerbal are considered vacuum-use-only and thus unable to survive landing or launch in harsh environment of Eve. Either shield those by cargo bay or fairing or attach a heavy heatshield to imitate extra rigidness and thermal protecion. Remember, you still need the colonists to get inside somehow. (Example: Mk1-2 Command Pod on top of PPD-10 Hitchhiker Storage Container, PPD-10 is enclosed inside a fairing, while pod is not. Construction is OK as it allows kerbals to enter shielded PPD-10 through command pod.)
3. No Air Intakes allowed. There is no use for them on Eve except for drag physics cheating. 
4. Arriving just a couple of days before asteroids, you don't have much time left for ISRU refuelling. ("Colony has an ISRU thus it produced some fuel" is a viable presumption though.)
5. Colony (initially) does not have any working means of transportation (rovers, planes, etc.), wheels on colony modules included.
6. It's expected to have an honest report of failure and HyperEdit (or Alt+F12 cheat orbit) usage numbers.

 

Score system:

Basic score and achievements:

"EVE-acuator" (+100): main task completed (bring at least 6 colonists to low Eve orbit for rendezvous with return vehicle)
+10 for returning all rescued colonists to Kerbin from LEO (remember of life support if you use it).
+5  for using a life support system (allows some achievements)
+5  for every extra colonist rescued over initial 6.

Colony score bonus:
+5: for self-sufficient colony design (you'll need a life support system (preferrably TAC LS) and either KPBS or one of RoverDude colony mods for resource production).
+15: for pics of how your colony modules reentry from low Eve orbit, land and be assembled (HyperEdit or Alt+F12 your colony to LEO, don't waste a launch window for it) 

Lander design score and achivements:

"Wet" mass categories:
+50: under 200t (seems impossible, but who knows?)
+40: under 250t
+30: under 300t
+20: under 350t 
+10: under 400t 
+5:  under 500t 

"Purist" (+20): Use only stock parts except for MechJeb box or parts needed for other achievements (KOS, TAC LS, RT) . It's HARD, believe me.
"Slim Fit" (+15): You lander should fit in 10m diameter to be protected by single inflatable heatshield during reentry.
"Proper Protection" (+5): Lander or at least it's major part must stay inside a fairing during fast and fiery part of atmospheric reentry.
"Like a Warhead" (+10): Your lander design doesn't use any wings, RCS, reaction wheels or airbrakes during reentry relying only on fairing shape and bottom-heavyness to retrograde aerodynamically on ballistic trajectory. (Most likely you'll need "Proper Protection" for this to work.)
"Power Pillar" (+5): Your lander must keep TWR higher than 1.7 on all ascent stages until it's almost in space. Eve don't forgive low-TWR designs anyway.
"Looks Real" (+5): Your lander shape is generally aerodynamic. All boosters must have proper aerodynamic caps. Upper docking port (if you have it) must be shielded or have an aerodynamic cap attached.
"Tumbler Toy" (+5): Lander design must assure vertical stability when landing on a noticeable slope.
"Passive Safety" (+5): your lander does not need even a slightest engine assistance to land safely on chutes.

"Foolproof" (+5): Your lander design is good enough to withstand suboptimal manual control on both descent and ascent. Either manned or remotely controlled.
"Remote Control" (+5): Your lander does not need a pilot onboard to land or fly. (stock KerbNet mechanics).
"Advanced Remote Control" (+10): You use RemoteTech AND your lander lands unmanned. (Orbital remote control from 6-kerbal crew is allowed).
"AI Mission" (+10): You not only designed a proper Eve lander, but wrote a working KOS code for it!
"Advanced AI Mission" (+30): You have wrote so much KOS code that your whole EVE-acuation mission is now fully KOS-controlled!

Mission score and achivements:
(Those still depend mostly on proper vehicle design rather than skill.)

"Sniper" (+15): Land within 1 km from colony.
"Marksman" (+10): Land within 1-3 km from colony.
"Good Aim" (+5): Land within 3-5 km from colony.

"Wheel Assist" (+5): drop a transport mean (rover) to move your colonists to the lander a bit faster.

"Poseidon" (+25): Splash into sea instead of proper landing, but still be able to finish mission after that. 

"Plan B" (+5) have working LES on your lander, so that you can try "plan B" when your first attempt fails.

Chose only one of "plan B"-s mentioned below - you won't have enough time for "Plan C". Full points if your main lander fails and "Plan B" worked, half points if you succeeded with first lander but still have "Plan B" as a spare option.

"Going Nomads!" (+20) for landing a huge rover (mobile base) with enough LS supplies for all colonists to be evacuated to nearest mountain and wait there for the next launch window and next lander.
"Move It!" (+30) for landing a rover, capable of moving the base itself to the mountains (in 1-2 runs maximum). Base should still be self-sufficient in new place.
"Try Again!" (+40) for bringing TWO identical humongous Eve landers within same single interplanetary launch.

Score Penalties:
-10 for each try you failed terribly and had to reload 
-10 for each time you use HyperEdit (or Alt+F12 cheat orbit) to test your lander  (no penalty for colony preparing operations)
-5 for each colonist you had at colony when EVE-acuation mission started from Kerbin, but was not able to rescue by some reason.
-5 for each LKO launch after the first one to assemble or refuel the expedition vehicle DURING THE EVE LAUNCH WINDOW. Preliminary preparations are not penalised.
-10 for refuelling lander from colony fuel tanks. Relying on endangered colony supplies is unnecesary risk for sure!

---

Edited December 1, 2016 by Dr. Jet
picture, explaining rule #2

[Foxster]

Sorry, I'm having a dense day - What do we have to do for this challenge?

There are a lot words and I still can't see what you want. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Foxster

[Dr. Jet]

3 minutes ago, Foxster said:

Sorry, I'm have a dense day - What do we have to do for this challenge?

Rescue 6+ kerbals from colony base near the Explodium Sea in one launch. Main part of challenge is designing an Eve lander capable of doing it within rule restrictions.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Dr. Jet

[Foxster]

1 minute ago, Dr. Jet said:

Rescue 6+ kerbals from colony base near the Explodium Sea. Main part of challenge is designing an Eve lander capable of doing it within rule restrictions.

Ah, right, got it. 

I'll have a try at "Purist". I only do non-mod challenges because anything is possible/easy with enough mods. 

[septemberWaves]

I'll probably try a heavily-modded version of this some time. It'll certainly give me an excuse to use SpaceY's 10m parts.

 

Also, you might want to ban any mods that allow editing of the Kerbol system. Sigma Dimensions, for example, can shrink Eve or change its atmosphere, which would certainly be bad for this challenge.

Edited November 29, 2016 by eloquentJane

[DustInTheWind]

Wait, so if a hitchhiker, lander can, or any crew cabin are used, they have to be enclosed in a faring?

You can't transfer crew to parts behind a faring unless the faring is so large you can clip the camera through it. Unless you use some mod that will do that.

[Signo]

15 hours ago, Foxster said:

anything is possible/easy with enough mods. 

This should be written in huge capital blocks on top of the forums.

[Foxster]

Here's a stock entry from me to get you started: The Eve Oh. 

171.7t wet mass. MJ used for stats and for re-orbiting flight. 

It could be shaved down quite a bit but I was only aiming to get below the 200t target. 

Full story: http://imgur.com/a/lHCjV

Hang on - was this supposed to be a whole mission from Kerbin or was it about just the lander as you said before?

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Foxster

[wibou7]

44 minutes ago, Foxster said:

Here's a stock entry from me to get you started: The Eve Oh. 

171.7t wet mass. MJ used for stats and for re-orbiting flight. 

It could be shaved down quite a bit but I was only aiming to get below the 200t target. 

Full story: http://imgur.com/a/lHCjV

Hang on - was this supposed to be a whole mission from Kerbin or was it about just the lander as you said before?

 

I find hilarious that you did the challenge on what would be considered "super hard" difficulty without even reading the whole thing

Nice design btw... How come you have a TWR < 1.0 in Mechjeb for stage 2? Isn't that a problem, on Eve of all place?

 

[Foxster]

8 minutes ago, wibou7 said:

How come you have a TWR < 1.0 in Mechjeb for stage 2? Isn't that a problem, on Eve of all place?

Those numbers aren't terribly reliable. They get a tad more accurate once on the surface of Eve and the landing junk is dropped. But you are right that that stage is a bit low for TWR.

The earlier stages have a high TWR though, meaning there's a good head of steam by the time that stage kicks in.The craft is pretty high by then and the initial TWR is close to 1 and it's only a few secs before it goes over 1, so it's fine.    

I could have tweaked the fuel loads of the stages but it would have meant making the craft look less pretty.  

[DustInTheWind]

Great entry @Foxster, however the crew cabins weigh 500kg per kerbal which is disqualified according to rule 2 and are supposed to be in a cargo bay or behind a faring if used. I think the OP didn't give that rule adequate consideration as you can't transfer crew to parts behind a faring unless the faring is so large you can clip the camera through it.

[Foxster]

8 hours ago, DustInTheWind said:

Great entry @Foxster, however the crew cabins weigh 500kg per kerbal which is disqualified according to rule 2 and are supposed to be in a cargo bay or behind a faring if used. I think the OP didn't give that rule adequate consideration as you can't transfer crew to parts behind a faring unless the faring is so large you can clip the camera through it.

Oh there were so many rules I couldn't take them all in. 

It does say in rule 2: "or attach a heavy heatshield to imitate extra rigidness and thermal protection" and I did have the heaviest heatshield on the craft. 

To be honest I could care less about winning or even having a valid entry, it was just a bit of fun to make a working craft. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Foxster

[tseitsei89]

Yeah sounds interesting but there are just too many rules for me to actually be willing to compete

[Dr. Jet]

Yep. Rule #2 was written to encourage usage of heavier crewed parts (and thus building more complicated lander than in other Eve challenges).

---

Foxter's 6-man design would be 215 points... if only it fulfilled the demands of rule #2.

To fulfill it either a 2040kg penalty payload for using too light crew parts will be needed or a different "too-light-crew-parts-are-fairing-protected" design with one heavier crew part as unprotected entrance.

Potential achievements: "EVE-acuator", "Purist", "Slim Fit", "Looks Real", "Foolproof", "Remote Control", "Sniper".

No "Power Pillar" potential achievement, as TWR readings on screenshot are very weird (most stages are below 1.0). Also... mere 6900 dV??? For Eve sea-level launch??? 

 

BTW, this peculiar design is making 3 passengers of 6 to survive through launch and ascent hanging on their seatbelts - ass up, face down. 

 

P.S. Checked this design ingame. It has 7560 dV without detachable parts. Still don't understang how it reached orbit with starting sea-level TWR of 1.57... 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Dr. Jet
(840-500)*6=2040, not 1020

[Foxster]

*sigh* What's wrong with a simple challenge to make a 6-Kerbal lander? 

Anyway, rule 2 says "...or attach a heavy heatshield to imitate extra rigidness and thermal protection" - which I did. I used the biggest heaviest one available. 

Here's a non-VAB screenshot on Eve, which shows the craft ready to launch after staging off the landing stuff. You can see the TWRs are good and the dV is 7411. 

Here's the craft file if anyone wants to try it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3bxy8x4tz5yktb/Auto-Saved Ship.craft?dl=0

Try it. It's dead easy to get into orbit. Take it straight up to about 25km, staging as needed. Then do a gentle gravity turn to orbit. Needs nothing special. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Foxster

[Dr. Jet]

No. Penalty payload (heatshield) should be on ASCENT stage, simulating that crew parts are more rigid than they are. 

It's too easy challenge with ultralight crew parts like Mk1 Crew Cabin, Mk1 Lander can or PPD-10 Hitchhiker Storage Container and without a weight penalty or at least design complication penalty. 

Also... how did you load kerbals there? No ladders... and Mk1 Crew Cabin has the only entrance at it's "butt", though each one of those "butts" is blocked by nosecones...

[Foxster]

Sorry, this is all too complicated for me. You seem to be adding rules and requirements as you go along. 

Good luck with the challenge, hopefully others will be bright enough to figure it all out, but I'm out of here. 

[Dr. Jet]

3 minutes ago, Foxster said:

Sorry, this is all too complicated for me. You seem to be adding rules and requirements as you go along. 

Good luck with the challenge, hopefully others will be bright enough to figure it all out, but I'm out of here. 

No. It's all there in the starting post. Rule #2. Nothing was added.

If it was THAT easy - it won't be even a challenge, right? 

[Dr. Jet]

Picture explaining rule #2 is added.

P.S. Something is strange with Imgur today... It tells me that file is uploaded, but it never appears in image list... Had to use TinyPic service instead...

Edited December 1, 2016 by Dr. Jet

[jinnantonix]

From what I can see, Foxster has a really good design for the ascent vehicle, getting 3 x Mk1 crew cabins (3t + of payload) into Eve orbit is the big challenge here, he appears to have solved it.  All that is required to satisfy rule #2 is to enclose the upper section in a fairing, and add a Mk1 lander can at the bottom of the craft which is decoupled prior to launch.  The Kerbals enter the command pod, and transfer into the Mk1 crew cabins.  

I have a sea level ascent vehicle, all stock parts, similar to Foxsters (a bit bigger at 245t) which I can modify as above and satisfy all of the design requirements, a 6 man rover to pick up the Kerbals and transport them, and a NERV powered transfer vehicle (with 2x hitchhikers) to get to Eve, refuel at Gilly and return all Kerbals, landing at the KSP.

However the whole issue of building the colony has me a bit confused, and all the mods like LS etc  blows out the game time too much.  This challenge is just way too complicated.  If you set this up with a simpler scenario focussed solely on the craft design I might give it a shot.

[SiriusRocketry]

Holy mother of necro, Batman!

Holler for a mod @Vanamonde, is this eligible for locking?

[Vanamonde]

39 minutes ago, SiriusRocketry said:

Holy mother of necro, Batman!

Holler for a mod @Vanamonde, is this eligible for locking?

No. OP is still active on the forum and might like to have the thread revived.