To Mech-Jeb or not to Mech-Jeb, that is the question...

[Menelmacar]

I really don\'t get where this 'you can\'t cheat in a single-player game' idea comes from... Plenty of games have cheats which when used incorrectly ruin the point and fun of the game. Because this game is currently sandbox-style of course it doesn\'t feel like cheating but in .cfg editing parts in extreme you\'re just cheating yourself out of the feelings of achievement you might get, unless you\'re the type who feels achievement doing anything with an unimaginably powerful, unbreakable rocket... if so - you\'re far more easily entertained than most, I should hope. When I was young I remember a guy bragging how he beat Doom on Ultra-Violence with IDDQD and IDKFA... did he want me to congratulate him for sitting there more or less watching a film?

[ultrasquid]

When playing a game in alpha stage of development, it seems to be our duty as players to push the game to its limits and report any difficulties. The way you do that is up to you, and it is just as, if not more, important to test it at factory defaults as it is to test it with hacked cfgs and mods. Both are fully legitimate.

When mission objectives and scoring become implemented, then we can talk about what constitutes cheating. Until then, just do what makes you happiest playing with this wonderful toy, and report back if you do something interesting or happen to break it somehow.

[Endeavour]

I use it for the surface information and orbital information tabs. Also, the kill rotation function on the Smart A.S.S. is far better than the ASAS in everyway, so I like to use that. The autopilot things usually don\'t work for me.

[Misterspork]

I really don\'t get where this 'you can\'t cheat in a single-player game' idea comes from... Plenty of games have cheats which when used incorrectly ruin the point and fun of the game. Because this game is currently sandbox-style of course it doesn\'t feel like cheating but in .cfg editing parts in extreme you\'re just cheating yourself out of the feelings of achievement you might get, unless you\'re the type who feels achievement doing anything with an unimaginably powerful, unbreakable rocket... if so - you\'re far more easily entertained than most, I should hope. When I was young I remember a guy bragging how he beat Doom on Ultra-Violence with IDDQD and IDKFA... did he want me to congratulate him for sitting there more or less watching a film?

What it means is that unless you are playing something where it can be considered a competition with another player if you use something which gives you a plain advantage over the other player it is considered cheating.

However, playing a single-player game where you have complete freedom over what you can do, if you PERSONALLY find enjoyment in messing around with cheats and blowing &$@% up then there is NOTHING wrong with that and anyone that tries to yell at you about it is most likely in the wrong.

For example, if I personally find more enjoyment in NOT DOING THE EXACT SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN MANUALLY but letting Mechjeb do it that is MY opinion and MY choice and not YOURS(Not directed at anyone).

[Anomalous_Matter]

In my opinion, the way to use Mechjeb is not to enable it every time you can\'t get something done, but for doing things automatically once you know you could already do it on your own. For example, I can get a hundred-meter-perfect orbit by myself and get satisfaction out of the fact that I did it, but I can still use Mechjeb and get satisfaction out of knowing that I can do that same thing manually if I choose.

Another reason I might use Mechjeb at times is when the overall purpose of a mission requires multiple relatively boring steps (finding out what it\'s like to EVA on Minmus requires exiting the atmosphere, orbiting, inclining the orbit, circularization, landing in a suitable spot, and then takeoff and doing everything backwards again) that I know I could accomplish, but I decide to let the computer take me there and then I can focus on the actual achievement in question.

My only exception to this rule is when letting Mechjeb do it for me first will let me know how to to it myself - for example, my first Minmus landing was thanks partially to Mechjeb. But after this I could do it all by myself, because I\'d watched and learned when to do the insertion burn, when to incline the orbit, how much fuel I\'d have left when I landed. It\'s the same way with rendezvous and interplanetary missions (in the future). I know I\'m not going to be able to compute all these numbers and calculations in my head, so I watch what Mechjeb does and then do roughly the same on my own. I use it like a hands-on teaching tool that shows me how to do things correctly/efficiently.

[greatorder]

I use mechjeb when I just can\'t be bothered with testing multiple times to see if it\'s orbit-capable.

aside from that, I\'ll use my own damned fingers!

[Vanamonde]

It\'s none of my business how other people prefer to play, but I tell you one thing that bugs me. In a video or screencap I\'ll see a lander parked in a precarious spot, or some bizarrely big and unwieldyg ship in space, and start to wonder what I\'m doing wrong or if I just suck at the game. And then I\'ll spot that little mechjeb thing tucked away somewhere on the ship and think, 'Oh, right. You couldn\'t do that either.' That\'s how it\'s possible to cheat in a single-player game. The law should be that there are no bragging rights if you didn\'t do it yourself. Yes, I said 'law.' Because that\'s how critical this issue is!

[pebble_garden]

You know what I wish for? An instrument package that gives me the same kind of readouts as MechJeb, but without the autopilot functionality. It\'s terribly useful information.

But since they\'re bound up in a single box, I don\'t use it and make do with the native, non-MechJeb information.

[ElJugador]

Personally, I\'m a \'Mission Control\' player. I prefer designing craft than flying them, although I could probably fly into orbit or do a Hohmann transfer to the Mün.

[SiliconPyro]

I have nerve issues in my hands. I may intend to press a key lightly, but it could end up like I\'m mashing it for a few seconds. This is why I often find myself backspacing through repeated letters while typing. For me, MechJeb relieves a lot of frustration, like when I sent a perfectly good rocket into a tumble at about 50km. Sometimes I make it through a flight, sometimes I don\'t. That said, I\'ve accomplished everything I\'ve done with MechJeb without it at least once, actually several times since I landed on the Mun at least three times before even knowing about MechJeb. I actually did a complete cartwheel while on final descent and managed to save it, only lost one landing leg on that one. I don\'t use MechJeb for much automation other than ascent though. I use it for information (like true altitude).

[LaydeeDem]

When it comes to newbies landing their first rocket on the mun with MJ, it does get me slightly steamed. There is no acomplishment to watching a lander land. BUT, its orbital info is a treasure trove. I only use the ascent autopliot for comsat launches. Imo, mechjeb is nice, but don\'t get happy when it lands a mun lander for you.

[MuXu96]

I like to work without mods

the old fashion way^^

[samstarman5]

Well, it\'s not like anyone can use mechjeb. You still need to know the basics to use it in the first place.

In the future, if this does become a stock addition, I\'d like several modules for different kinds of computing. Possibly different parts for a basic computer to a larger but more high-tech one. Then it would be fair.

Even in campaign, I doubt this is something you would start out with, or at least the complete extent of it for that matter.

From what I understand of mechjeb so far, I would go so far as figure that it will be pretty close on how the pilots will handle the craft when you hand it over to them. When we kiss ASAS and SAS goodbye. Though how that performs will depend on how good the kerbals are.

But I would expect that feature to be a bit yet down the road. No rush.

[Khrissetti]

It depends what I\'m trying to do. If I\'m challenging myself to land on the Mun for the first time, of course I won\'t use MJ, what would be the point? On the flip side, if there\'s a certain feature I want to explore or a design I want to test I\'ll use MJ because I\'m not particularly interested in how I got there.

For instance, if I want to have a look around KSC2 with EVA i\'ll probably use MJ to put me as close to the site as I like with a good degree of accuracy. as good as EVA is, I don\'t fancy wasting half an hour walking from the ship to where I want to go because I landed a kilometre away from where I wanted to get to (Likewise, I don\'t want to re-run the whole mission again for the sake of shaving a km off my landing site.) If you want to do that, fine, nobody is stopping you from using whatever techniques you like. What may be an exercise in futility and frustration for me might be exactly what you want to do.

Basically, enjoy the game however you want to.

[TheKerbinator]

These discussions make me laugh. There are three kinds of people in this thread:

1. The civil people. These are the (rare) users who simply state their opinion, without any offense to anyone who might disagree. You can recognize them by speaking from their own point of view ('I don\'t feel a sense of achievement with MechJeb')

2. The condescending people. The users who insist that the way you are doing it is wrong. These people love to tell you how you should play your sandbox game and how you should feel playing it. Please stop worrying about the pleasure of other people. Everybody on this forum is here because they love the game, with or without MechJeb

3. The wannabe peace keepers. By far the most annoying of all. These are the people who think they can and have the influence to end this discussion. Apparently they see people fighting and raging where in fact they are just having a healthy discussion. All these people do is crank their head backwards and start shouting: 'STOP! STOAP! STOP!!'. They usually add some attempt at a definitive say (something like: 'I WILL EXPLAIN IT FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!') where they expect all other users to nod at their screens in unison and the thread to die out. In reality, their post is just another opinion among countless others, and a very unimpressive one at that.

Please, do go on for our amusement.

[rkman]

These discussions make me laugh. There are three kinds of people in this thread:

1. The civil people. These are the (rare) users who simply state their opinion, without any offense to anyone who might disagree. You can recognize them by speaking from their own point of view ('I don\'t feel a sense of achievement with MechJeb')

2. The condescending people. The users who insist that the way you are doing it is wrong. These people love to tell you how you should play your sandbox game and how you should feel playing it. Please stop worrying about the pleasure of other people. Everybody on this forum is here because they love the game, with or without MechJeb

3. The wannabe peace keepers. By far the most annoying of all. These are the people who think they can and have the influence to end this discussion. Apparently they see people fighting and raging where in fact they are just having a healthy discussion. All these people do is crank their head backwards and start shouting: 'STOP! STOAP! STOP!!'. They usually add some attempt at a definitive say (something like: 'I WILL EXPLAIN IT FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!') where they expect all other users to nod at their screens in unison and the thread to die out. In reality, their post is just another opinion among countless others, and a very unimpressive one at that.

Please, do go on for our amusement.

I suppose that makes you type 2.

[rcoobc]

I\'ve never used Mech-Jeb, and I without doubt would feel less of an achievement doing so. I\'ve never used Quick-Save - Quick-Load either, although mainly because I don\'t know the button to Quick-Load (hey it\'s only been around for a few days, right?)

I didn\'t have a clue about the game when I started, it took hours to put a rocket into space. Many more hours where spent crashing into the mun. Finally I managed it, and now I consider myself a pretty decent kerbonaut.

The only thing I\'ve yet to achieve is to get 2 ships to rendezvous

[Khrissetti]

Quick-Save F5

Quick Load - Hold F9

[Felsmak]

I prefer do do landings on my own, but it does have its uses sometimes. It's great for learning when to do a transfer and I also use it when testing new designs, just to find out if it can actually make it to where I want to go. I also use it for tedious things that I'd rather not do repeatedly, such as launching lots of comsats.

EDIT: Arise, ancient and pointless discussion from the past! Arise, and walk the forums anew!

Edited August 17, 2012 by Felsmak

[Naiba]

Never used mech-jeb, partly because searching through the endless stream of mods with the forum’s search tool, especially for something as popular as mechjeb, is like sticking pieces of broken glass in my eyes, and partly because I’ve never really needed it.

Maybe I'll want something with some of its capabilities when docking's added.

[Paprika]

I get big lag when near to kerbin so I use it for take-off, it prevents unwanted manslaughter of kerbals. It's great for targetted landings too if I want to rescue a rare survivor, I can't figure out how it gets so close to the target site yet.

[Pawelk198604]

Personally, I dislike the idea of a flight autopilot that flies the ship for you. Most of the fun for me is getting to do exactly what you want yourself, without the aid of a machine. For example, getting to a metre-perfect circular orbit by hand is far more rewarding than if a machine had done it for you. The same goes for rendezvous and landings.

Now, I know many people prefer the more scientific side of KSP (i.e. the Kerbin Geographic Society) and I appreciate the need for simple, fast orbits in order to collect data with the minimum fuss, but when I hear of people performing their first ever moon landing/rendezvous/minmus landing etc, with mechjeb, I wonder \'where\'s the achievement?\' Now, obviously there\'s the rocket design that, since 0.16, has (I think) made it easier to get items into orbit, and that does require skill, thought, and planning. But when it comes to it, I\'d feel that I cheated if I were to use a computer to perform the actual landing. I\'d prefer to be in touch with the ship itself.

(I don\'t mind using it for orbital info, but I never really play the game accurately enough to warrant needing orbital information to 2d.p.)

Besides, if you perform every landing and rendezvous using mechjeb, you never learn to do it manually. I don\'t know about anybody else, but my first ten landing attempts exploded, but I slowly got better and now, if a ship is capable of landing at all, I can land it 99% of the time using no RCS. The same for rendezvous and rescue landings, although I have only ever performed three rendezvous manoeuvres, I found each one massively easier than the last... But with mechjeb, you just don\'t get the chance to learn... which I find to be an opportunity wasted, so essentially, I reckon that for the true KSP experience, players really ought to steer relatively clear of mechjeb until they\'re confident in manual flights, since it\'s a learning experience that way. I\'ve learnt more about orbital manoeuvring than I could have thought possible since playing KSP.

So, any thoughts on the subject. I can tell that there will be two completely different categories of people, and, indeed, \'mediators\' in between, but try to keep it civil.

EDIT: This was NOT meant to be me telling everyone that mechjeb is wrong! :S It was giving my current views on the plugin, and asking for others\' views on the same.

It's useful when you are newbie like mine:-)

I do my first Mun landing using MechJeb but i want to learn and do it myself someday

[air805ronin]

Honesty time:

I started playing on Tuesday. I had never heard of it and someone mentioned it in a vlog. I picked up the demo....flew two rockets into a rather cruddy parabola and was hooked. I bought the full paid version, fired it up, and did a couple more and looked up a youtube video on how to get into an orbit.

Once I could reliably do that, I watched some video to figure out the transfer. I wound up orbiting Kerbol a few times till I figured out how to manipulate my capture by the Mun.

so then I spent a whole evening trying to land on the Mun. when I thought i finally had it I was unfortunately on the dark side and didn't realize how fast I was approaching the ground. Still, I thought I was on the right track.

So I downloaded Mechjeb and let it run the same mission I had just run. the same starting orbit, roughly the same transfer, the same orbit around the Mun. Even tried landing on the dark side with it. However I learned my method had been properly executed, and that I really needed to be burning my engines much sooner and harder than I had been.

Do I use Mechjeb? Not much. I did want to use it because there is only so much I can pick up off youtube videos.

[Warshawski]

I mostly use MechJeb to keep my craft stable, because the KillRot function is sooo much more convenient than babying the SAS/RCS buttons while I try to make orbit. All of my landings are done by hand.

[Fox967]

I learnt a lot from Mechjeb, especially how to land. So i have Mechjeb to thank for that. Now i can do it manually, which i love doing as every time is different and exciting (especially the way i end up fudging things up )

But if you don't want to use it, don't. Personally, i don't care either way But i don't think anyone should berate other players from playing how they want to play a game. Its like making fun of people for setting their game on 'Easy' instead of 'Hardcore', when all the player wants to do is have fun...

(Not saying anyone IS doing this here, by the way, just saying my opinion ).