totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[sh1pman]

Just now, Gilph said:

Happened to me in a GPP non USI career. My scientist changed to an engineer in a lab on a space station on Niven. May be a stock issue since we run different configs.

For me it happened on Ceti. I also play GPP.

[Gilph]

1 minute ago, sh1pman said:

For me it happened on Ceti. I also play GPP.

I had noted it in the GPP forum a few weeks ago. Maybe a Kopernicus issue?

[sh1pman]

2 minutes ago, Gilph said:

I had noted it in the GPP forum a few weeks ago. Maybe a Kopernicus issue?

Unlikely, why would it mess with kerbal professions?

[Gilph]

16 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

1.)
I need some help, please.  I have an MKS base on the MUN
Supplies are being created for 3 kerbals at a rate that give them the self sustainability.

However; the problem I am having it with chemicals.  I cannot seem to keep flowing to keep up with machinery production.

When you run into these types of issues, the first thing to check is tank size.  This has been discussed a few months ago in the forum, but I'll give the highlights.

Chemicals are one of the largest things you need to manufacture if you wish to manufacture everything to be self sustainable. The way that catch-up mechanics work with MKS manufacturing, this requires a chemical tank size that can hold 6-12 hours of chemical consumption. Since Chemicals require Minerals and converts it with 20% efficiency, you need to have a max 1-5 ratio of Chemicals to Minerals storage (can be adjusted). If your tanks are smaller than this, then you won't make the maximum amount per day. When I resolved this in my base, everything worked as expected. The only issue I had left was if I used more than one tank to get the capacity. It did not seem to recognize the total capacity correctly. So for the large items like this, I stopped using inflatable storage and used single very large tanks.

Hope this helps.

[sh1pman]

33 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

@RoverDude - I have added that information to the same album [link below] ,  can you point me to the wiki location for the Inventory usage?  I ask, as I think it only shows local/active craft resources?  Also, recently when I visit each drill site.  [Occasionally, I go to drill's site to allow for the resources to 'catch up] , I have been getting a message that there is insufficient power and my drills stop running.; the reactor, it is operational and 100%, this has only just recently started to happen and only if I stay on the craft for a duration.

https://imgur.com/a/8saDv

Did your colonization score increase? It makes drills work faster and consume more power per second.

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, sh1pman said:

Did your colonization score increase? It makes drills work faster and consume more power per second.

It's Geology score that makes drills go faster, not Colonisation. Geology affects converters too, so if it increased chemicals consumption would increase but so would production at the same rate (normal prod. * geo rating²).

[sh1pman]

2 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

It's Geology score that makes drills go faster, not Colonisation. Geology affects converters too, so if it increased chemicals consumption would increase but so would production at the same rate (normal prod. * geo rating²).

I call all three of them "colonization score" 

I guess that's the root of @gamerscircle's power problems

Edited October 10, 2017 by sh1pman

[voicey99]

4 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

I call all three of them "colonization score" 

That could lead to issues when talking about them.

4 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

I guess that's the root of @gamerscircle's power problems

Probably, since the exponential increase becomes a problem after a while. Maybe the maximum scores should be capped? In any case, @gamerscircle use the "Governor" tweakable on the parts to throttle production if you don't have enough power or need the input resources for other stuff. Note the "100%" on the reactor means it's running at full capacity.

Edited October 10, 2017 by voicey99

[sh1pman]

2 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

That could lead to issues when talking about them.

How do you call all three of them with one word, then?

[RoverDude]

Refer to them as Kolony Rewards - that's the inclusive term.

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

How do you call all three of them with one word, then?

Still "colonisation ratings", but I refer to the specific category where needed. For example, "colonisation" could have been referring to all three or the "Kolonisation" sub-score.

Kolony Rewards is the stuff you collect from the Pioneer module, not the numbers.

Edited October 10, 2017 by voicey99

[sh1pman]

Just now, RoverDude said:

Refer to them as Kolony Rewards - that's the inclusive term.

Got it.

7 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Probably, since the exponential increase becomes a problem after a while. Maybe the maximum scores should be capped? In any case, @gamerscircle use the "Governor" tweakable on the parts to throttle production if you don't have enough power or need the input resources for other stuff. Note the "100%" on the reactor means it's running at full capacity.

Aren't they capped at 500% already?

[RoverDude]

Yep 500% is the cap

[gamerscircle]

1 hour ago, Gilph said:

When you run into these types of issues, the first thing to check is tank size.  This has been discussed a few months ago in the forum, but I'll give the highlights.

Chemicals are one of the largest things you need to manufacture if you wish to manufacture everything to be self sustainable. The way that catch-up mechanics work with MKS manufacturing, this requires a chemical tank size that can hold 6-12 hours of chemical consumption. Since Chemicals require Minerals and converts it with 20% efficiency, you need to have a max 1-5 ratio of Chemicals to Minerals storage (can be adjusted). If your tanks are smaller than this, then you won't make the maximum amount per day. When I resolved this in my base, everything worked as expected. The only issue I had left was if I used more than one tank to get the capacity. It did not seem to recognize the total capacity correctly. So for the large items like this, I stopped using inflatable storage and used single very large tanks.

Hope this helps.

Hi there @Gilph ,

Thanks for the reply -

1.) The dill site for the minerals is on the other side of the planet, this is connect via a MPU and the raw are flowing from the planetary warehouse fine.
2.) At the base, I have 2 dedicated 2.5 MPU for chemical production with a Inflatable storage module connected and configuration for Minerals/Chemicals 

When I start to ramp up for the Specialized Parts and the Machinery side of things, I saw that the chemicals were not being produced quickly enough.

3.) My solution was to bring out an Industrial Refinery with all 3 bay set for chemicals.

Opt.3 still didn't seem to be able to keep up with the chemical demand so my last ditch effort was to bring out a recycle module , but still when I had recyclables, the chemicals were not keeping up.

I hope that helps, as I thought I had a okay understanding of MKS, but..

1 hour ago, sh1pman said:

Did your colonization score increase? It makes drills work faster and consume more power per second.

Yes.. that number does seem to be going up.... as the base expands?

[sh1pman]

16 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

Yes.. that number does seem to be going up.... as the base expands?

It increases with time, depending on how many specialists you have on the planet. Check KSPedia for more info about Kolony rewards.

[voicey99]

33 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

1.) The drill site for the minerals is on the other side of the planet, this is connect via a MPU and the raw are flowing from the planetary warehouse fine.
2.) At the base, I have 2 dedicated 2.5 MPU for chemical production with a Inflatable storage module connected and configuration for Minerals/Chemicals 

When I start to ramp up for the Specialized Parts and the Machinery side of things, I saw that the chemicals were not being produced quickly enough.

3.) My solution was to bring out an Industrial Refinery with all 3 bay set for chemicals.

Opt.3 still didn't seem to be able to keep up with the chemical demand so my last ditch effort was to bring out a recycle module , but still when I had recyclables, the chemicals were not keeping up.

I hope that helps, as I thought I had a okay understanding of MKS, but..

MPUs are very slow at processing resources (a fully set Industrial Refinery produces 3x as much as a 3.75m MPU and 10x as much as a 2.5m), though they do not use crew multipliers which mean they are still faster on automated bases (crew production multiplier here is 0.05 + ([lvl of most skilled engineer/technician on board +1] * 0.2)). It's better to centralise your resource processing on a base that has access to a reasonable engineer and an Industrial Refinery with MPUs relegated to efficiency parts to boost production. Unless you have a lot of them, MPUs are not going to be able to keep up with any serious processing module, though they are good for use on seldom-visited mining outposts to provide a small amount of resources.

33 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

Yes.. that number does seem to be going up.... as the base expands?

I believe it is generated over time on a basis of how many kerbals of the relevant specialisation (different specs generate points in different ratings) you have on board and maybe how many MKS parts there are on the vessel (please correct if wrong). The relevant bonus here is the Geology rating, in that it acts as a multiplier to the output of (almost) all processing parts and drills (convert the % into a decimal and square it to find the multiplier). This ramps up exponentially (capped at 25x), so you will need exponentially more power generating capacity to keep up with production over time (unless you manually rein it in with the governor).

Edited October 10, 2017 by voicey99

[sh1pman]

19 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

a fully set Industrial Refinery produces 3x as much as a 3.75m MPU

Are you sure about that? I thought they were roughly equal in speed per module.

[voicey99]

6 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Are you sure about that? I thought they were roughly equal in speed per module.

Both have three modules, but a 3.75m MPU produces 7.2/s, an IR produces 21.96/s per module.

[sh1pman]

7 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Both have three modules, but a 3.75m MPU produces 7.2/s, an IR produces 21.96/s per module.

Which is strange, considering that they have the same amount of machinery. I thought @RoverDude once said that they should be of comparable efficiency.

[voicey99]

9 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Which is strange, considering that they have the same amount of machinery. I thought @RoverDude once said that they should be of comparable efficiency.

They are designed to be left alone for long periods in between maintenance cycles, so they have a disproportionately high amount of machinery for their production and a lower consumption rate per unit of production as well. They do have the same resource I/O ratio (5:1), though.

Edited October 10, 2017 by voicey99

[Gilph]

1 hour ago, gamerscircle said:

Hi there @Gilph ,

Thanks for the reply -

1.) The dill site for the minerals is on the other side of the planet, this is connect via a MPU and the raw are flowing from the planetary warehouse fine.
2.) At the base, I have 2 dedicated 2.5 MPU for chemical production with a Inflatable storage module connected and configuration for Minerals/Chemicals 

When I start to ramp up for the Specialized Parts and the Machinery side of things, I saw that the chemicals were not being produced quickly enough.

3.) My solution was to bring out an Industrial Refinery with all 3 bay set for chemicals.

Opt.3 still didn't seem to be able to keep up with the chemical demand so my last ditch effort was to bring out a recycle module , but still when I had recyclables, the chemicals were not keeping up.

I hope that helps, as I thought I had a okay understanding of MKS, but..

Hi,

Yeah...you need 3-4 Tundra bays if you are making RE and MK full time. But my point was regarding the tank storage that is locally attached to the Refineries. One RE bay and one MK bay consumes like 500 chemicals per day at 100%.  When your bonuses get higher (or if you have more than one MK or RE bay), you need 1500-2000 per day or more. Budgeting for 12 hours of tank space gets you 4000, which is a 2.5m tank. If you don't have a tank roughly that size, then you may run out of Chemicals during a 6 hour run of catch-up processing.

[gamerscircle]

3 hours ago, voicey99 said:

That could lead to issues when talking about them.

Probably, since the exponential increase becomes a problem after a while. Maybe the maximum scores should be capped? In any case, @gamerscircle use the "Governor" tweakable on the parts to throttle production if you don't have enough power or need the input resources for other stuff. Note the "100%" on the reactor means it's running at full capacity.

I don't think it is the power, I think.. the chem production is keeping up.
The reason for the MPU was that I wanted to create a medium range version over the top, since I am attempting to push towards Duna , then Jool [maybe] and I wanna get the mass that I take out lower.

14 minutes ago, Gilph said:

Hi,

Yeah...you need 3-4 Tundra bays if you are making RE and MK full time. But my point was regarding the tank storage that is locally attached to the Refineries. One RE bay and one MK bay consumes like 500 chemicals per day at 100%.  When your bonuses get higher (or if you have more than one MK or RE bay), you need 1500-2000 per day or more. Budgeting for 12 hours of tank space gets you 4000, which is a 2.5m tank. If you don't have a tank roughly that size, then you may run out of Chemicals during a 6 hour run of catch-up processing.

So.. about 3-4 Chem tundras per RE Tundra?

I didn't consider any 'local' dedicated storage because I thought that the Inflatable storage module would be enough and if more was needed, it would do a pull.  This was my logic, but it would seem that I need more 'local' storage to accommodate for the process.

[Gilph]

14 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

So.. about 3-4 Chem tundras per RE Tundra?

3-4 per one RE 3.75 Tundra bay and one Assembly MK bay. They both need chemicals. If you have a few MPUs making Chemicals, you can get away with 3. The Wiki has the conversion rates.

Yes, I made the same assumption and had the same problem. But, during catch up processing, the simplified version is that it only does one pull every 6 hours, which is different than the real time pulls when the vessel is in focus. So if you need 1000 chemicals in 6 hours and you have space for 800, you are only going to use 800 (actually a bit less). Many factors go into that number but if you budget for tank space at 12 hours of consumption, you will be fine.

[Das_Sheep]

So here's a quick question - regarding hiring of kerbals, how/ can you increase the experience level they can be hired at? Currently mine can only go as high as 2.

[Aelfhe1m]

47 minutes ago, Das_Sheep said:

So here's a quick question - regarding hiring of kerbals, how/ can you increase the experience level they can be hired at? Currently mine can only go as high as 2.

You can't. It's hard coded into the DLL.