totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Gilph]

3 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

Hoping to use it to ship Karborundum off the surface of Thalia in GPP rather than futz around with shuttles...  I should have some results in a day or two, provided everything doesn't explode on landing

You're trying to handle Karborundum on the surface of Thalia? You are very brave....

[Terwin]

3 hours ago, DYUS555 said:

My friend, and in CKAN your masterpieces when they appear?
Thank you! (sorry for the translator)

MKS will not appear on ckan until Allista updates planetary construction to 1.4.1 and updates the metadata to reflect that.

MKS has a dependency on PC, and while MKS includes an updated version of PC core, CKAN does not account for that and will wait for Allista to mark PC as updated.  

Also RoverDude(and many other mod makers) have had problems both with ckan and with users complaining to the mod makers about problems caused by ckan not installing things properly, so do not ask about ckan support as RoverDude does not support ckan.(fortunately, he is willing to take pull requests, so those that enjoy the ease of using ckan can still enjoy his mods)

[Terwin]

On 3/17/2018 at 2:53 PM, AtilaElari said:

I'm also trying to get into the mod and my brain starts to melt a little. So before I spend several hours of real time establishing a base, I'd like to ask you if I understand things correctly.

My goal is to establish a base capable of assembling modules and ships from Ground Construction DIY kits. For that I need MaterialKits. To that end I need to mine Metallic Ore, Substrate and Minerals, refine them and then process in the Workshop.

My first destination is Minmus. It has no places that have all 3 resources in one spot. So I will need to establish at least 2 mining location. Am I correct in assuming that I can establish a drill+container-only mining outpost, enable Planetary Warehouse on the container and then use Logistics module on the main base to transport mined ores for refinement across unlimited distance?

To create material kits you need:

* Sources for Metallic ore, Substrate, and Minerals  (drills work, but if not all are available in the same place, mining outpost(s) may be needed, dirt+ sifter is also an option, but is generally much slower)

* Refining capacity for the above(Ranger portable smelters would be the minimum, MPUs work well for unmanned/mining bases, I generally use one or more 3.75m industrial refineries for manned bases.  The refined resources are called metals, polymers, and chemicals)

* Manufacturing capacity(Ranger workshop or Tundra assembly plant, the assembly plant can also make machinery once those resources are available)

* Power supply.  This is usually solar panels or a power plant depending on tech level and intended usage.

* Storage: a place to store created material kits, plus at least a little storage for both the raw and refined resources(12+ hours worth is preferred to avoid loss of efficiency during catch-up).

 

Having an engineer(or other kerbal with the appropriate skill) on board will greatly speed up the production process, but is not required.  An engineer will boost mining, refining, and manufacturing; boosting your entire production line.

Having a kerbal on board will also require life support(Supplies and habitation) if you have USI-LS installed.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Terwin

[Gilph]

1 hour ago, Terwin said:

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 3:53 PM, AtilaElari said:

I'm also trying to get into the mod and my brain starts to melt a little. So before I spend several hours of real time establishing a base, I'd like to ask you if I understand things correctly.

My goal is to establish a base capable of assembling modules and ships from Ground Construction DIY kits. For that I need MaterialKits. To that end I need to mine Metallic Ore, Substrate and Minerals, refine them and then process in the Workshop.

My first destination is Minmus. It has no places that have all 3 resources in one spot. So I will need to establish at least 2 mining location. Am I correct in assuming that I can establish a drill+container-only mining outpost, enable Planetary Warehouse on the container and then use Logistics module on the main base to transport mined ores for refinement across unlimited distance?

To create material kits you need:

* Sources for Metallic ore, Substrate, and Minerals  (drills work, but if not all are available in the same place, mining outpost(s) may be needed, dirt+ sifter is also an option, but is generally much slower)

* Refining capacity for the above(Ranger portable smelters would be the minimum, MPUs work well for unmanned/mining bases, I generally use one or more 3.75m industrial refineries for manned bases.  The refined resources are called metals, polymers, and chemicals)

* Manufacturing capacity(Ranger workshop or Tundra assembly plant, the assembly plant can also make machinery once those resources are available)

* Power supply.  This is usually solar panels or a power plant depending on tech level and intended usage.

* Storage: a place to store created material kits, plus at least a little storage for both the raw and refined resources(12+ hours worth is preferred to avoid loss of efficiency during catch-up).

 

Having an engineer(or other kerbal with the appropriate skill) on board will greatly speed up the production process, but is not required.  An engineer will boost mining, refining, and manufacturing; boosting your entire production line.

Having a kerbal on board will also require life support(Supplies and habitation) if you have USI-LS installed.

Also, it was horrible luck that you do not have a single biome to support all three. That is not very common. But, if you have one that has two out of three, you only need to have one remote miner.

Other things to consider:

• The remote MPL can process a refined product (Chemical) from the raw product you are drilling at that site (Minerals), but it doesn't have to. I sometimes use the small MPLs attached to drills only to perform the unattended push function to PL and never turn on the MPL conversion. It makes it much lighter because it does not need Machinery. But, if you need just a little extra that your main base can't support, they also work well in that regard.
• The local storage size (directly attached to the refinery) for the raw resources is key, as Terwin mentioned above. I rarely use anything less than a 3.75 container (or larger) anymore for the higher volume raw resources (Minerals, Silicates, etc), especially for the resources mined remotely. Check the Ranger inflatable storage stats (when inflated) to see if it matches your needs. They have created a lot of new profiles that work nicely.
• One big tank seems to work better than multiple smaller tanks. I have had unexpected behavior in the past using the latter.
• Remember that the storage that is on the converter part is not warehouse enabled, so it cant be scavenged and shared. I have gotten into the habit of removing the contents from the converters and moving it to the storage tanks that are warehouse enabled and turning off the storage on the converter (not Machinery, or others required for the part to work).

Edited March 19, 2018 by Gilph
clarification

[juanml82]

Question, is it possible (or better said, what do I need to delete?) so I can have MKS and EPL but let EPL use rocket parts for building, as it's the original way, instead of material kits and specialized parts?

Also, is there a point in using the new kerbal jobs MKS adds? It looks like the default 3 jobs can do what the new jobs can do, but the new jobs can't do what the default jobs can. For instance, a scientist can replace a medic (I think) but a medic can't reset the goo and science jr (I think)

[voicey99]

14 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

Question, is it possible (or better said, what do I need to delete?) so I can have MKS and EPL but let EPL use rocket parts for building, as it's the original way, instead of material kits and specialized parts?

If you want to go EPL Easy Mode delete UmbraSpaceIndustries\MKS\Patches\PatchManager\ActiveMMPatches\MKS_EL_Resources.cfg.

15 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

Also, is there a point in using the new kerbal jobs MKS adds? It looks like the default 3 jobs can do what the new jobs can do, but the new jobs can't do what the default jobs can. For instance, a scientist can replace a medic (I think) but a medic can't reset the goo and science jr (I think)

The chief attraction is the fact they are cheap. The more the merrier with MKS, since your colony ratings increase faster and generate more rewards, so in Career they function as cheap seat-fillers who are still useful when you have several so you can save your more expensive kerbonauts for actual missions. In Sandbox or Science, they don't serve a special purpose.

[Terwin]

1 hour ago, juanml82 said:

Also, is there a point in using the new kerbal jobs MKS adds? It looks like the default 3 jobs can do what the new jobs can do, but the new jobs can't do what the default jobs can. For instance, a scientist can replace a medic (I think) but a medic can't reset the goo and science jr (I think)

As I primarily get my kerbonauts from rescues(where I have specialists disabled), I only use the Kolonist specialist, and that is because they improve all 3 bonuses while only taking one kerbonaut worth of supplies and habitation.

Also, by the time I am hitting Duna, I generally no longer need to worry about funds, so hiring non-kolonist specialists is no longer a concern.

[Gurki]

Ok, @RoverDude I think I finally understand why I don't see this "Start T-Credits".

Simply because they were gone with the "SwappableConverter Fixes" (aka 0.54.1 update) !

This and the fact that I've done all my tests using a fresh and clean game ...

Issue created on github (Because I love seeing my tickets resolved ) PR will follow soon

 

Edit:

PR done. Also, two other questions:

• Is it possible to turn TransportCredit visibility to true ?

Knowing how much credits are available without poping up the orbital windows would be really handy.

Unfortunately, even with the visibility set to true, whether from the RESOURCE node (parts cfg files) or from the RESOURCE_DEFINITION node (Settings.cfg), already launched ships don't show their actual TransportCredits amount.

The only way I found is to edit the isVisible value from save file.

• Turn off DumpExcess ?

Mom always told me to don't throw away my money

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Gurki

[Gilph]

Hi,

I updated the wiki for the Organics conversion rates. The doc thread is old and I was not sure whether I should put it there.

[TDplay]

Hi and sorry to bother you but I've run into an issue.

For some reason, only the MEU-100 and 100A drills is showing up, the other drills are not for some reason. I've installed MKS via the latest version of USI Constellation (2018.03.11.01) on KSP 1.4.1 (AVC complained about incompatibility when I put it on 1.3.1) and I've tried manually updating USITools (which fixed Kolonisation tab not showing issue I was having) and CCK.

[Jebs_SY]

Yes, regarding the missing drills... there is still the error, that the game seems to not want to load the textures of the big drills @RoverDude.
Tried it with a manual MKS 0.55 installation on a clean KSP 1.4.1 installation, see errors below.
Removing the texture line from the model section of the drill parts makes them load fine.

As a side note ... I also had this problems (with the same fix) on 1 or 2 NON USI parts on other mods.

BR
Jebs_SY

 

Spoiler

[LOG 20:13:06.813] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'MKS.Drill.01A'
[LOG 20:13:06.858] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/MKS_Drill_02/MKS_Drill_02'
[ERR 20:13:06.859] PartLoader: Encountered exception during compilation. System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at PartLoader.ReplaceTextures (UnityEngine.GameObject model, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 textureNames, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 newTextures) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.CompileModel (.UrlConfig cfg, .ConfigNode partCfg, Single scaleFactor, .AvailablePart partInfo) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader+<CompileParts>c__Iterator1.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

[ERR 20:13:06.859] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

[LOG 20:13:06.859] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/MKS_Drill_02A/MKS_Drill_02A'
[ERR 20:13:06.860] PartLoader: Encountered exception during compilation. System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at PartLoader.ReplaceTextures (UnityEngine.GameObject model, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 textureNames, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 newTextures) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.CompileModel (.UrlConfig cfg, .ConfigNode partCfg, Single scaleFactor, .AvailablePart partInfo) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader+<CompileParts>c__Iterator1.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

[ERR 20:13:06.860] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

[LOG 20:13:06.860] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/MKS_Drill_03/MKS_Drill_03'
[ERR 20:13:06.860] PartLoader: Encountered exception during compilation. System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at PartLoader.ReplaceTextures (UnityEngine.GameObject model, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 textureNames, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 newTextures) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.CompileModel (.UrlConfig cfg, .ConfigNode partCfg, Single scaleFactor, .AvailablePart partInfo) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader+<CompileParts>c__Iterator1.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

[ERR 20:13:06.860] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

[LOG 20:13:06.860] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/MKS_Drill_03A/MKS_Drill_03A'
[ERR 20:13:06.860] PartLoader: Encountered exception during compilation. System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at PartLoader.ReplaceTextures (UnityEngine.GameObject model, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 textureNames, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 newTextures) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.CompileModel (.UrlConfig cfg, .ConfigNode partCfg, Single scaleFactor, .AvailablePart partInfo) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader+<CompileParts>c__Iterator1.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

[ERR 20:13:06.860] PartCompiler: Cannot compile part

[LOG 20:13:06.860] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/MKS_EL_LaunchPad/MKS_EL_LaunchPad'
[LOG 20:13:06.878] PartLoader: Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/MKS_EL_LaunchPad/MKS_EL_LaunchPad' has no database record. Creating.
 

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Jebs_SY

[Choc113]

Do I still need to add the "extraplanetary launchpads" mod to use the UKS mobile launch platform and the UKS orbital shipyard? I did not add them when updating mods to 1.4 as there was forum talk saying they where to be "depreciated" soon. I assumed this meant that the platform and shipyard would work without the need to instal the "extraplanetary launchpads" mod but I currently can't get them to work. Am I missing something or do I need the  "extraplanetary launchpads" mod to use them still?

[halx]

are we still using EL and Ground Construction to construct additional base parts in-SITU (just ground construction?) or we need to ship in the DIY kits?  Been out for a bit just wonderin' what people are using nowadays. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by halx

[TDplay]

I have a question about Orbital Logistics, can I use them to transfer resources from, say, my Mun base to my Kerbin station? As they were being developed, there were talks of inter-planetary auto-shipments, such as mining on Minmus and sending across the system.

[notthebobo]

31 minutes ago, TDplay said:

I have a question about Orbital Logistics, can I use them to transfer resources from, say, my Mun base to my Kerbin station? As they were being developed, there were talks of inter-planetary auto-shipments, such as mining on Minmus and sending across the system.

Orbital Logistics only works within a sphere of influence, so Mun to Kerbin won't work.

[Gilph]

We really should discuss the lack of a Machinery transfer mechanism. My old workarounds don't work anymore and the perform maintenance is no longer useful. I'm testing flying vessels and landing them with a smaller amount of Machinery, and then transferring from a vessel that manufactures Machinery, but it does not work.

Say I have 3 vessels all in range. Base 1 is a large manufacturing vessel that makes Machinery, and stores them in a USI_Warehouse tank, like a 1.25 tank that holds 600. Bases 2 and 3 have parts that consume Machinery that also has an extra USI_Warehouse tank. I want to manually move Machinery from the tank in Base 1 to the tank in Base 2, and there is no way to do that. If I could do that, I can then move it locally to the parts, or if I lock the Machinery level in the part, the part will consume the Machinery from the tank. I dont really want to perform maintenance anymore for a few reasons, not the least of which it takes it from random sources and not just the Base 1 tank.

Would you consider a screen in Logistics just for machinery transfer? It would not list the whole Machinery level/capacity of the vessel, just the USI_Warehouse tank level/capacity. So the levels of machinery in the parts themselves are ignored, preventing manufacturing issues. ATM, I am using save file editing and Hyperedit to move it, which is not ideal.

Thanks

[sh1pman]

2 minutes ago, Gilph said:

I dont really want to perform maintenance anymore for a few reasons, not the least of which it takes it from random sources and not just the Base 1 tank.

But maintenance should only take machinery from containers with enabled warehouse module. You don't even need additional machinery containers, having just one at the manufacturing base is enough. 

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, Choc113 said:

Do I still need to add the "extraplanetary launchpads" mod to use the UKS mobile launch platform and the UKS orbital shipyard? I did not add them when updating mods to 1.4 as there was forum talk saying they where to be "depreciated" soon. I assumed this meant that the platform and shipyard would work without the need to instal the "extraplanetary launchpads" mod but I currently can't get them to work. Am I missing something or do I need the  "extraplanetary launchpads" mod to use them still?

Yes, you need EL to use those parts.  'Depreciated' means they're going away soon - and that you should avoid using them.  It's best to use EL parts from other mods.

1 hour ago, halx said:

are we still using EL and Ground Construction to construct additional base parts in-SITU (just ground construction?) or we need to ship in the DIY kits?  Been out for a bit just wonderin' what people are using nowadays. 

Ground Construction is fully integrated - and currently requires DIY kits.  Off-Kerbin building of DIY kits is still a work in progress.

EL is still supported through patches allowing survey builds and EL workshops.  (As well as a couple of deprecated parts that might still be around.)

[Gilph]

1 minute ago, sh1pman said:

But maintenance should only take machinery from containers with enabled warehouse module. You don't even need additional machinery containers, having just one at the manufacturing base is enough. 

True, but that is now a problem. Consider this.

Base2 has 4 AM modules making Organics. All 4 have a full level of Machinery to work at full speed. To keep them at full speed, I lock the Machinery storage. But it has to consume from somewhere. So, I add a USI_Warehouse tank, but it's empty. If I start conversion, it will complain there is no Machinery. I want to fill that tank with Machinery so it's consumed from that storage, not the part storage. How do I fill it? If I move Machinery from one of the parts to the tank, lock the tank, and PM the part, it just takes it from the tank, even though I locked it. There are other Machinery warehouse containers in range, but they are not being used for the transfer.

Now consider i have 5 of these bases, all with warehouse tanks that are partially full. If I PM a part, it will take from those tanks, and I really dont want that.

 

[notthebobo]

47 minutes ago, Gilph said:

True, but that is now a problem. Consider this.

Base2 has 4 AM modules making Organics. All 4 have a full level of Machinery to work at full speed. To keep them at full speed, I lock the Machinery storage. But it has to consume from somewhere. So, I add a USI_Warehouse tank, but it's empty. If I start conversion, it will complain there is no Machinery. I want to fill that tank with Machinery so it's consumed from that storage, not the part storage. How do I fill it? If I move Machinery from one of the parts to the tank, lock the tank, and PM the part, it just takes it from the tank, even though I locked it. There are other Machinery warehouse containers in range, but they are not being used for the transfer.

Now consider i have 5 of these bases, all with warehouse tanks that are partially full. If I PM a part, it will take from those tanks, and I really dont want that.

 

Won't an Engineer in a Workshop automatically perform maintenance on anything within local logistics range?

On 3/19/2018 at 4:39 PM, Gurki said:

Ok, @RoverDude I think I finally understand why I don't see this "Start T-Credits".

Simply because they were gone with the "SwappableConverter Fixes" (aka 0.54.1 update) !

This and the fact that I've done all my tests using a fresh and clean game ...

Issue created on github (Because I love seeing my tickets resolved ) PR will follow soon

 

Edit:

PR done.

I can confirm that loading 0.55.0 fixes the problem; "Start T-Credits" now appears in the logistics modules. Thanks, @Gurki

[Gilph]

Just now, notthebobo said:

Won't an Engineer in a Workshop automatically perform maintenance on anything within local logistics range?

Yes, but that mechanic is not really relevant for me anymore. I have no use for PM at all. Since you can't define the source, it will take from unexpected places. If I only have one warehouse tank in my manufacturing base as the only possible source, I now give up all possibility of controlling the load using locked Machinery settings, or I'll always be less than 100% load because I cant fill a Machinery warehouse tank to use as the source and it will just consume the Machinery on the part. That really limits your options. That is useful in exactly one use case, and one I don't use.

[Gurki]

@notthebobo time to work on the wiki with nice screenshot now

I think that it should be mentioned that currently, all extra credits above 100K (internal storage per logistics module) is dumped to the void ... Still configurable into the cfg file though, as well as the ability to display credits on the resources panel/part menu/Kolony inventory tab.

[notthebobo]

Orbital Logistics added to the Logistics wiki page.

[Gilph]

Looks really good, thanks for that.

Seems like Transfer Credits are only local to the vessel that makes them. They are not shared within the warehousing range. Will that always be the case? If so, then every facility that manufactures something to be transferred by OL needs a fuel tank and MK storage.

[Loren Pechtel]

1 hour ago, Gilph said:

Looks really good, thanks for that.

Seems like Transfer Credits are only local to the vessel that makes them. They are not shared within the warehousing range. Will that always be the case? If so, then every facility that manufactures something to be transferred by OL needs a fuel tank and MK storage.

Couldn't you make one central warehouse that makes the credits and does the transfers?  Use planetary logistics to get the stuff into it.