totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[EndAllFilms]

When I already download the USI It came to this

[RoverDude]

47 minutes ago, EndAllFilms said:

When I already download the USI It came to this

I think we covered this in a different forum - gonna need a lot more info.

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, EndAllFilms said:

When I already download the USI It came to this

You posted the same thing in your other thread and the answer is still the same. Your gamedata folder is a mess. It has mks mod folders in the wrong place. Those folders don't magically end up in the wrong place all by themselves. You need to start over and put the mods in properly. 

 

This also seems to be an existing save?  Are you trying to use an existing save with a different version of MKS?  Sometimes mod updates are save breaking

[Kielm]

USI Constellation Pre-Release appears to have an issue with orbital logistics. I've conducted one orbital transfer successfully, now whenever I load the Orbital Logistics tab of the Kolonization dashboard it goes blank, the window becomes unresponsive and I have to reload the game to recover. 

Logs are filled with this:

[ERR 01:26:43.046] GUI Error: You are pushing more GUIClips than you are popping. Make sure they are balanced.

[EXC 01:26:43.047] InvalidOperationException: Sequence contains more than one element
	System.Linq.Enumerable.SingleOrDefault[TSource] (System.Collections.Generic.IEnumerable`1[T] source) (at <fbb5ed17eb6e46c680000f8910ebb50c>:0)
	KolonyTools.OrbitalLogisticsTransferRequest.get_Origin () (at <0ff508c2dce54aae8f06e282317e32e6>:0)
	KolonyTools.OrbitalLogisticsTransferRequest.get_OriginVesselName () (at <0ff508c2dce54aae8f06e282317e32e6>:0)
	KolonyTools.OrbitalLogisticsGuiMain_Scenario.DrawWindow () (at <0ff508c2dce54aae8f06e282317e32e6>:0)
	KolonyTools.KolonizationMonitor.ShowOrbitalLogistics () (at <0ff508c2dce54aae8f06e282317e32e6>:0)
	KolonyTools.KolonizationMonitor.OnWindow (System.Int32 windowId) (at <0ff508c2dce54aae8f06e282317e32e6>:0)
	UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (System.Int32 windowID) (at <fa6f9762ac624af092525d37c9d516c4>:0)
	UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.GUI+WindowFunction func, System.Int32 id, System.Int32 instanceID, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, System.Int32 forceRect, System.Single width, System.Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) (at <fa6f9762ac624af092525d37c9d516c4>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

I'm going to be somewhat reliant on Orbital Logistics at this point in the career game so if there's anything I can do to workaround this please let me know!

EDIT:

Removing the transfer history from the save file seems to have fixed it. It may be because I transferred 2x resources in one run?

EDIT the second:

This happened when I set up an orbital transfer and then changed scenes. Once I change scenes the dashboard tab is effectively broken until I manually clear the transfer history out of the save file. Provided I don't change scenes until the transfer is done, and then immediately clear the history, it works. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Kielm
Picture

[Mossconfig]

So, as I understand it the Tcredit cost is a reflection of how much mass is lost form point A to B. Could it be made to run off cost lost to destinaton? Somehow capture the cost at the start and finish, and use that? That way SSTOs and SRBs can provide the benefits they are supposed to.

[Kielm]

42 minutes ago, Mossconfig said:

So, as I understand it the Tcredit cost is a reflection of how much mass is lost form point A to B. Could it be made to run off cost lost to destinaton? Somehow capture the cost at the start and finish, and use that? That way SSTOs and SRBs can provide the benefits they are supposed to.

As I understand it the mechanic will soon be changed to incorporate payloads/containers, and the cost will be calculated based on the mass lost transporting that payload/container from A to B. So more efficient craft (e.g. SSTOs) would benefit more.

EDIT: See here

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Kielm

[RoverDude]

7 hours ago, Mossconfig said:

So, as I understand it the Tcredit cost is a reflection of how much mass is lost form point A to B. Could it be made to run off cost lost to destinaton? Somehow capture the cost at the start and finish, and use that? That way SSTOs and SRBs can provide the benefits they are supposed to.

It's a reflection of a lot of things, but mass is used as a catch-all (though we're adding special parts to use for the cargo capacity part of the equation).    SSTO's already provide a massive benefit.  Not sure what you mean by SRBs though.  And cost would be a lot more complex to calculate, since now you care about not only what changed from point A to point B, but what specific PARTS changes from point A to point B, and that really doesn't add any benefit for the implementation cost.

Edited January 16, 2021 by RoverDude

[ShakeNBake]

Kinda off topic, since the topic of the week seems to be WOLF, but has anyone done any big installations using the Atlas domes? I’m planning on kolonizing the Jovian system in RSS and am looking for some construction inspiration for a giant garden on Europa. I see that there are some new parts coming soon, but since I’m still on 1.8, new releases might break my hack job of an install.  5 way symmetry is a structure I have never played with before. Gonna take a new thought process.

Thnx.

[TomfooleryYT]

On 1/15/2021 at 9:56 AM, RoverDude said:

best bet is a clean install, then install your mods, then copy over your save.

Turns out it was Infernal Robotics messing things up. However, I'm now having an issue with MKS as I can't use orbital logistics anymore? any way to fix this? 

[Kielm]

@TomfooleryYT you have to remove the historical transfers from the orbital logistics section in your save file. I only spotted this myself yesterday.

Look for something like this

Spoiler

	SCENARIO
	{
		name = ScenarioOrbitalLogistics
		scene = 5, 7, 8
		TRANSFER
		{
			DestinationVesselId = 2929967568
			OriginVesselId = 2873289384
			DestinationVesselName = Minmus Station II
			OriginVesselName = MKS Kolony V - MK
			DestinationModuleId = 02243398-d7bd-461a-9c54-c127e52f2930
			OriginModuleId = 1902ada6-f82b-4aef-87fd-56077de88f05
			Mass = 3.19999957
			Cost = 358.180298
			Status = Delivered
			Duration = 16494.906915715728
			StartTime = 36003512.595484108
			RESOURCE
			{
				ResourceDefinitionId = 2079929862
				TransferAmount = 3000
			}
			RESOURCE
			{
				ResourceDefinitionId = 1173844497
				TransferAmount = 199.99933399985972
			}
		}
	}

 

and replace it with this:

Spoiler

    SCENARIO
    {
        name = ScenarioOrbitalLogistics
        scene = 5, 7, 8
    }

i.e. remove the transfer history. Until a fix comes out, don't switch craft once you start a transfer - wait for it to finish or leave the orbital logistics window open and manually delete the history, or you'll have to do this every time. 

@RoverDude another issue with Orbital Logistics / T-Credits in one of the ATLAS parts - I can't build any, it complains that the T-Credits are full when there are zero:

EDIT: The ATLAS 10m factory has no storage for Transport Credits in it's config file. I've manually added one in for now. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Kielm

[TomfooleryYT]

1 hour ago, Kielm said:

@TomfooleryYT you have to remove the historical transfers from the orbital logistics section in your save file. I only spotted this myself yesterday.

Look for something like this

  Reveal hidden contents

	SCENARIO
	{
		name = ScenarioOrbitalLogistics
		scene = 5, 7, 8
		TRANSFER
		{
			DestinationVesselId = 2929967568
			OriginVesselId = 2873289384
			DestinationVesselName = Minmus Station II
			OriginVesselName = MKS Kolony V - MK
			DestinationModuleId = 02243398-d7bd-461a-9c54-c127e52f2930
			OriginModuleId = 1902ada6-f82b-4aef-87fd-56077de88f05
			Mass = 3.19999957
			Cost = 358.180298
			Status = Delivered
			Duration = 16494.906915715728
			StartTime = 36003512.595484108
			RESOURCE
			{
				ResourceDefinitionId = 2079929862
				TransferAmount = 3000
			}
			RESOURCE
			{
				ResourceDefinitionId = 1173844497
				TransferAmount = 199.99933399985972
			}
		}
	}

 

and replace it with this:

  Reveal hidden contents

    SCENARIO
    {
        name = ScenarioOrbitalLogistics
        scene = 5, 7, 8
    }

i.e. remove the transfer history. Until a fix comes out, don't switch craft once you start a transfer - wait for it to finish or leave the orbital logistics window open and manually delete the history, or you'll have to do this every time. 

I've Tried this and it doesn't seem to work. I still can't use orbital logistics. @RoverDude any potential fix for this?

Edited January 16, 2021 by TomfooleryYT

[Kielm]

Whoops, sorry that didn't work for you.

I've had the same bug multiple times over the last couple of days and removing the historical transfers from the save file (and then loading the fixed save file) has worked 100% of the time for me, so I assumed it would work for you too.

I guess orbital logistics has more bugs than just that right now, hopefully there will be a fix soon.

[ShakeNBake]

Well, It's Something. I hope there will be an option to have the domes sit flat somehow. That would make it able to flow nicely into Planetary Base Systems.

[Mossconfig]

Spoiler

OUTPUT_RESOURCE

{

ResourceName = LiquidFuel

Ratio = 0.0208333

DumpExcess = false

}

OUTPUT_RESOURCE

{

ResourceName = Oxidizer

Ratio = 0.02546275

DumpExcess = false

}

What does the dumpExcess line do? Does it stop supply is one or the other is filled, or does it turn any unused oxidizer into LF?

[roffl8]

Hey, when recovering Containers from your mod i get negative funds back. Tried to recover mined Exotic Minerals and instead went bankrupt

 

I hope this is the right place to ask and not some other Mod causing this. Other mods i have: KSPI-E, Near Future, GU, KAS 

 

[TheDog]

2 hours ago, roffl8 said:

Hey, when recovering Containers from your mod i get negative funds back. Tried to recover mined Exotic Minerals and instead went bankrupt

 

Seems to be a stock bug affectung all sort of fuel switchers (not only configurable containers, but also ifs, firespitter, wbi, ...).

I just happened to notice first with CC:

I have filed a bug report with squad:

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/26988

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by TheDog

[RoverDude]

3 hours ago, Mossconfig said:

  Reveal hidden contents

OUTPUT_RESOURCE

{

ResourceName = LiquidFuel

Ratio = 0.0208333

DumpExcess = false

}

OUTPUT_RESOURCE

{

ResourceName = Oxidizer

Ratio = 0.02546275

DumpExcess = false

}

What does the dumpExcess line do? Does it stop supply is one or the other is filled, or does it turn any unused oxidizer into LF?

It makes sure if you do not have space for something, it does not stop the entire conversion process, essentially dumping any resource that does not fit.

 

2 hours ago, roffl8 said:

Hey, when recovering Containers from your mod i get negative funds back. Tried to recover mined Exotic Minerals and instead went bankrupt

 

I hope this is the right place to ask and not some other Mod causing this. Other mods i have: KSPI-E, Near Future, GU, KAS 

 

Yeah, I have to dig in and see what's up.

[Kielm]

WOLF is proving more difficult to get into than I thought it would. 

In my career game, I've progressed as far as putting a few ATLAS domes on Minmus and cranking out enough goods to be able to build ships from scratch, as well as make the colony self-sustaining. In a bid to reduce part count and take advantage of more resources (as well as abstracted shipping into the station that's currently in orbit), I thought I'd have a look at WOLF. 

Unfortunately, I'm a little stuck:

1. I need Kerbals in my WOLF setup to support various modules
2. Kerbals need their own WOLF versions of life support and habitation
3. WOLF life support and habitation requires a source of water (or hydrates) and fertiliser (gypsum)
4. There do not appear to be any biomes on Minmus that contan both water and gypsum. 
   1. Note: There are biomes containing hydrates and gypsum, but the conversion rate for hydrates (5->2?) means that I'd need a cumbersome amount of WOLF modules and bulk harvesters just to make the water, which would probably cause the maintenance & power requirements to snowball out of control
5. I can't ship water in, because the biomes that have water don't have gypsum, so they can't be used for life support either
6. ???

In MKS I can bypass some of these with either automated remote miners or alternative production chains, but I can't do that in WOLF (unless there's a route I've missed).

So... is this an intended limitation? Do I have to start in a biome with full life support, or can I run at a defecit and build out extraction/shipping in other biomes before adding kerbals and starting it up? Or is it simply intended that we're supposed to start on Kerbin?

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, Kielm said:

WOLF is proving more difficult to get into than I thought it would. 

In my career game, I've progressed as far as putting a few ATLAS domes on Minmus and cranking out enough goods to be able to build ships from scratch, as well as make the colony self-sustaining. In a bid to reduce part count and take advantage of more resources (as well as abstracted shipping into the station that's currently in orbit), I thought I'd have a look at WOLF. 

Unfortunately, I'm a little stuck:

1. I need Kerbals in my WOLF setup to support various modules
2. Kerbals need their own WOLF versions of life support and habitation
3. WOLF life support and habitation requires a source of water (or hydrates) and fertiliser (gypsum)
4. There do not appear to be any biomes on Minmus that contan both water and gypsum. 
   1. Note: There are biomes containing hydrates and gypsum, but the conversion rate for hydrates (5->2?) means that I'd need a cumbersome amount of WOLF modules and bulk harvesters just to make the water, which would probably cause the maintenance & power requirements to snowball out of control
5. I can't ship water in, because the biomes that have water don't have gypsum, so they can't be used for life support either
6. ???

In MKS I can bypass some of these with either automated remote miners or alternative production chains, but I can't do that in WOLF (unless there's a route I've missed).

So... is this an intended limitation? Do I have to start in a biome with full life support, or can I run at a defecit and build out extraction/shipping in other biomes before adding kerbals and starting it up? Or is it simply intended that we're supposed to start on Kerbin?

The low efficiency resource harvesters are bootstrappers.  They don't require Kerbals, and you get free power with a depot.  Use enough to get your first unit of life support, then build out from there.  Use electric rovers to cross some biome thresholds for your initial bootstrap routes, since you can do that without anything required for TCreds (and there's enough biome overlap you can probably find two close together - or even be tricky and ship from A->B, then B->C with zero-TC cost rovers.

Once you can support the better harvesters, switch to those.  

 

[Kielm]

31 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

you get free power with a depot.

Is this a bug in the USI Constellation Pre-Release then, or is it simply not reporting the power because the depot's not established yet? The depot does not appear to provide any power. All I've done is survey that biome, there's no WOLF modules in it yet. 

EDIT: The planner was wrong. I established the depot on a hunch and the power is now showing in that biome, thanks.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Kielm

[RoverDude]

15 minutes ago, Kielm said:

Is this a bug in the USI Constellation Pre-Release then, or is it simply not reporting the power because the depot's not established yet? The depot does not appear to provide any power. All I've done is survey that biome, there's no WOLF modules in it yet. 

Yeah establishing a new depot will give you some power.   Probably a UI nuance - the freebies are not shown there it looks like, though generally the workflow is to establish the depot then start planning the expansions vs all in one go.

 

[Kielm]

Welp, 

Just spent some time getting familiar with WOLF (and trying to fix a unity crash in KSP but that's another story) and I have to say it's pretty damn impressive. Like MKS It takes a bit of adjustment to get used to the production chains, and I've yet to pull any resources out with a hopper but this is going to open up a whole host of options!

I started with a small science outpost on Minmus, used a rover to gather as much science as possible and processed it on site. Most of the supplies and incremental improvements were shipped into Kerbin orbit via KSTS, and a fairly decent SSTO I designed using Mk4 spaceplane systems that carries ~46tons up to 100km:

Spoiler

The Duna and Ranger series of parts, along with local logistics feature of this mod really helped build out the Minmus base, as I could just add to it as I needed to expand - and local logistics took care of balancing supplies. A tiny Akita rover was responsible for all the prospecting:

Spoiler

When it came to getting resources to the base, I made extensive use of planetary logistics, and dropped a few remote automated miners in key locations. They all look the same, just with different drill/ILM setups:

Spoiler

 A couple of Tundra modules made their way into the mix for some of the more advanced processing, which led to reaching a high enough part count to cause me problems at time warp > 100x. Still, I wanted to use it as a testbed for future colonisation missions, and learned a lot - always carrying extra ILMs, checking hatches, command and life support tanks on everything, etc.

When I started branching out to MaterialKits (shipping in DIY containers) and then GC's DIY Kit Assembly, things started to go really slow. I had to include a PAL to move the containers around, and when put together with all the existing base items things became almost unplayable. Still, I needed more production so I opted to go for a giant (for me!) ATLAS base to replace the existing setup. One base, ~100 parts. Sadly I don't have pictures of the original science base but here's the ATLAS monstrosity, GC Assembly line and PAL construction vehicle I used for moving containers around. It was all built in-situ from the original base, and took ~220 days for assembly, and about ~60 days for final construction:

Spoiler

Next up came the construction of Minmus station, which will be the construction point for most orbital craft in the future. I had originally planned to use TransportCredits to ship up everything required as the cost doesn't seem to be too high, but after playing with WOLF for a little bit I'm tempted to move it into a lower orbit and utilise the WOLF hoppers. Here's the current Minmus station, making extensive use of Station Parts Redux, which was a joy to build with and works really well with MKS:

Spoiler

The great thing about Ground Construction's kits is the way it allows you to build from orbital dockable containers in-situ, so the majority of the station had DIY kits attached to ports that could be built out from shipped up Material Kits. 

While all this has been going on my bootstrap ship has arrived at Duna. I repurposed a Tug I was using to ship containers from Kerbin -> Minmus and used it to push the bootstrap base and a rover all the way to Duna. It has 7000 delta-v pushing a 35t payload (thanks, CryoEngines!) so it's more than up to the task. Here's the tug (on the right, consisting mostly of LH2 tanks) and bootstrap base (on the left). The rover has already been landed:

Spoiler

And finally, the Akita rover on Duna with it's lander, ready to start all over again:

Spoiler

Once I've found a good place to land the bootstrap automated miner, I'll leave it there to push a couple of years' worth of Metals, Polymers and Chemicals into the planetary logistics while the first Duna colony ship makes it's way there. I've yet to designed what form that will take, however!

Thanks again for the hard work on the mod, it's been a blast so far. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Kielm

[alphaprior]

I'm trying to learn this complex mod but there are no tutorials or simple examples how to do anything rather descriptions of what each item does.
Wiki does not help much neither videos or a forum post I found here. 

 I haven't started a base yet I have no idea how to. How to land vehicles, What to build first etc.
For the moment I only want to start producing fuel on Mun or Minmus so I don't have to rely on expensive launches from Kerbin.
There is a Material Processing Unit which says it can convert ore to LFO or Liquid Fuel. But I can find no such option, only crusher/smelter and resources like silicon, chemicals, metals etc.
I did a test drive on launchpad just to see if it works but it didn't produce or spend anything but electricty.

I dont' mind which module I need to use I just want to produce fuel. I have to mine ore then process it somewhere. How? 

[Kielm]

@alphaprior

This is not a small mod, it's a beast - life support, colonisation, resource gathering, refining, processing and uses. You can find a wiki here - you may want to bookmark it to refer to it later. 

You don't need this mod if all you want to do is refuel - you can accomplish that with the stock ISRU parts & drills - try googling "KSP Ore Mining" or searching for similar videos on YouTube. 

This guide by bigcalm on MKS is quite recent, it's pretty comprehensive for an overview and look at how stuff works. 

Hope that helps!

 

[notthebobo]

12 minutes ago, Kielm said:

Hope that helps!

 

Great resource, @Kielm, It's now on the wiki's Tutorial page.