totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[RoverDude]

3 hours ago, Distriaction said:

Hi everyone, 
I have this problem with resources..

Extraplanetary launchpads is using Metal Ore,Metal  and RocketParts as consumables for building stuff .  And I know that with MKS installed it should transition to using Material kits and SP... But it does not . Same thing with Planetary base systems parts...  not using MaterialKits and SpecializedParts....Maybe I am doing something wrong?  Tried surfing every wiki, but cant find a solution...

in the most popular MKS guide there is a screenshot of EL using there resources.

Also I found some patches  that should work \GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\MKS\Patches\PatchManager but in my game they do not , like deleting EL parts (Some thing with Firespitter parts, but I dont know if this is related)

Official EL support is long since deprecated.  Feel free to module manager up something, or just use the EL production chain.

[Chilkoot]

Hi folks - I'm trying to get a WOLF resource system up and running on Minmus, but am unable to progress past the initial depot.

I've landed the depot modules and biomes are showing up in the WOLF dashboard now.  The problem is setting up any kind of production - WOLF won't permit me to connect modules unless all requirements are met (shown in the planner).  The problem is that to get to a state where I can harvest something, the web of interdependencies requires ~20 modules to be landed at the same time.

Am I missing something here?  I've read through the docs on GitHub, but am quite stuck trying to spin up any kind of WOLF resource collection or production outside of Kerbin.

[modus]

Well, yeah, I've launched some pretty ugly big...things to get it all going. 

That said, you don't always have to launch and land everything at once, you can feed WOLF gradually. That's how I did it, at least.

[RoverDude]

Just now, modus said:

Well, yeah, I've launched some pretty ugly big...things to get it all going. 

That said, you don't always have to launch and land everything at once, you can feed WOLF gradually. That's how I did it, at least.

Assuming you're on bleeding edge, yeah production takes a lot of modules.  A way to get past some of the harvester infrastructure is to use the low-efficiency power modules and the low-efficiency harvesters to bootstrap things, then do zero cost transport routes to your central base location.  You will still need to land a ton of stuff for life support or manufacturing, but at least you'll have all of the raw materials.

[Parmenio]

7 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

The problem is that to get to a state where I can harvest something, the web of interdependencies requires ~20 modules to be landed at the same time.

Sometimes you just have to add things piecemeal. Not sure what you are specifically trying to do, but I'd look into just starting with the basics....food, matkits...then add from there. What I always try to do when creating a new colony/station is establish a WOLF trading route first...ship in some of the basics....get the WOLF production up and running....then stop the transfer in once the colony/station is self-sufficient. 

[modus]

Just now, RoverDude said:

Assuming you're on bleeding edge, yeah production takes a lot of modules.  A way to get past some of the harvester infrastructure is to use the low-efficiency power modules and the low-efficiency harvesters to bootstrap things, then do zero cost transport routes to your central base location.  You will still need to land a ton of stuff for life support or manufacturing, but at least you'll have all of the raw materials.

I think you wanted to quote @Chilkoot? 

My WOLF things are up and running (ish)

[JamesonKerbal]

9 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

The problem is that to get to a state where I can harvest something, the web of interdependencies requires ~20 modules to be landed at the same time.

 

That's not unusual. I was landing depot components on Minmus using three to four layers of nine modules on a small lander (the landers got a bit bigger for Mun and Duna).

One way you can make things easier for yourself is to send heaps of Fertilizer, Food, Water, Oxygen and Material Kits to Minmus via cargo routes. Then as you establish local life support and MK production, you can dial back the exports from Kerbin to Minmus (and send them to your next expansion site).

I used one site as my "landing" site for resources -- basically lots of cargo route capacity between Minmus Orbit and Minmus Greater Flats -- then built routes from Greater Flats to each of the depots using a nuclear powered rover with the WOLF Cargo Kontainers. From each depot I'd harvest all the interesting stuff (Metallic Ore, Exotic Minerals, etc), process locally what made sense to process locally (eg: combining Metals, Polymers and Chemicals into Material Kits while saving some metals and polymers for Alloys and Synthetics), then export the entire production to Greater Flats. Then on Greater Flats use all the raw, refined and manufactured materials to produce stuff I wanted to export to Minmus Orbit (mostly Material Kits, Specialized Parts, Alloys, Electronics, Robotics, Synthetics).

Sorry for the essay. I'm done with my WOLF expansion across the Kerbol system so now I can get back to updating the tutorial on the wiki.
 

Spoiler

Here's a small lander for Minmus industry. This just harvests some silicates and produces silicon.

 

 

[Chilkoot]

11 hours ago, JamesonKerbal said:

That's not unusual. I was landing depot components on Minmus using three to four layers of nine modules on a small lander (the landers got a bit bigger for Mun and Duna).

One way you can make things easier for yourself is to send heaps of Fertilizer, Food, Water, Oxygen and Material Kits to Minmus via cargo routes. Then as you establish local life support and MK production, you can dial back the exports from Kerbin to Minmus (and send them to your next expansion site).

I used one site as my "landing" site for resources -- basically lots of cargo route capacity between Minmus Orbit and Minmus Greater Flats -- then built routes from Greater Flats to each of the depots using a nuclear powered rover with the WOLF Cargo Kontainers. From each depot I'd harvest all the interesting stuff (Metallic Ore, Exotic Minerals, etc), process locally what made sense to process locally (eg: combining Metals, Polymers and Chemicals into Material Kits while saving some metals and polymers for Alloys and Synthetics), then export the entire production to Greater Flats. Then on Greater Flats use all the raw, refined and manufactured materials to produce stuff I wanted to export to Minmus Orbit (mostly Material Kits, Specialized Parts, Alloys, Electronics, Robotics, Synthetics).

Sorry for the essay. I'm done with my WOLF expansion across the Kerbol system so now I can get back to updating the tutorial on the wiki.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Here's a small lander for Minmus industry. This just harvests some silicates and produces silicon.

 

 

This is super helpful - thanks so much, and thanks to the others here for the insights.

Part of my mistake has been trying to figure this stuff out while in a career game, which is not a forgiving learning/tinkering environment.  Gonna flip over to sandbox and try exactly what you've outlined above, then find a way to ramp up to sustainable production in a way I can "afford".

The concept and paradigm of WOLF is really well done.  Bob, if you're reading this, serious kudos to you on this brainchild.  The way you manage to shoehorn so much new gameplay into KSP 1 is pretty astounding.

[RedDwarfIV]

Hi. I'm confused about how to use Planetary Logistics. I tried reading an MKS guide, but all it said was that I needed a Tundra Logistics Module (which I have) and a storage part set to Planetary Logistics: On (which I have) and that the Logistics Module would, even when unmanned, "push" a resource into Planetary Logistics.

I have a water mining unit on Minmus. It is successfully mining water and at this point I have 4,000 units of it in the storage tank. I have an agricultural base on Minmus with an empty water tank and a manned Tundra Logistics Module. Its water tank is also set to Planetary Logistics: On.

I don't see any options on the tank or the Logistics Module for "pushing" resources into Planetary Logistics. The menu on the right hand side comes up with tabs including Planetary Logistics, but it doesn't show resources like the Local Resources tab does. 

Please could I get an explanation for how I am supposed to use this function? I'm very invested in this mod in my current playthrough, and I'd love to keep going with it, but this is a wall I've slammed into. My only alternative would be sending an entire water tanker lander out to Minmus and shuttling water around, if I'm unable to get Planetary Logistics working. Any help would be appreciated.

[Terwin]

24 minutes ago, RedDwarfIV said:

Hi. I'm confused about how to use Planetary Logistics. I tried reading an MKS guide, but all it said was that I needed a Tundra Logistics Module (which I have) and a storage part set to Planetary Logistics: On (which I have) and that the Logistics Module would, even when unmanned, "push" a resource into Planetary Logistics.

I have a water mining unit on Minmus. It is successfully mining water and at this point I have 4,000 units of it in the storage tank. I have an agricultural base on Minmus with an empty water tank and a manned Tundra Logistics Module. Its water tank is also set to Planetary Logistics: On.

I don't see any options on the tank or the Logistics Module for "pushing" resources into Planetary Logistics. The menu on the right hand side comes up with tabs including Planetary Logistics, but it doesn't show resources like the Local Resources tab does. 

Please could I get an explanation for how I am supposed to use this function? I'm very invested in this mod in my current playthrough, and I'd love to keep going with it, but this is a wall I've slammed into. My only alternative would be sending an entire water tanker lander out to Minmus and shuttling water around, if I'm unable to get Planetary Logistics working. Any help would be appreciated.

When the storage tank of your water miner gets full, it should automatically deposit half of its contents into planetary storage.  This also happens between 'chunks of the stock 'catch-up' mechanic which lets processes like ISRU 'catch up' to the current time by processing 6 hour 'chunks' of the back-log at a time.

Once you have water in your (Minmus) planetary storage, if you have a MKS process which consumes water turned on and attached to your empty water tank, it should attempt to 'pull' water from the planetary warehouse to fill the tank. 

note: Kerbals count as a MKS process that consumes supplies for the purpose of pulling supplies from the planetary warehouse. 

[RedDwarfIV]

9 hours ago, Terwin said:

When the storage tank of your water miner gets full, it should automatically deposit half of its contents into planetary storage.  This also happens between 'chunks of the stock 'catch-up' mechanic which lets processes like ISRU 'catch up' to the current time by processing 6 hour 'chunks' of the back-log at a time.

Once you have water in your (Minmus) planetary storage, if you have a MKS process which consumes water turned on and attached to your empty water tank, it should attempt to 'pull' water from the planetary warehouse to fill the tank. 

note: Kerbals count as a MKS process that consumes supplies for the purpose of pulling supplies from the planetary warehouse. 

Ah, thanks!

...maybe I shouldn't have used a 3.5 metre tank for the mining rig... It's gonna take forever to fill up.

[Terwin]

10 hours ago, RedDwarfIV said:

Ah, thanks!

...maybe I shouldn't have used a 3.5 metre tank for the mining rig... It's gonna take forever to fill up.

You can always send a rover with a Klaw and additional drills/power.

Also, as it will use the stock catch-up mechanic, you can also do other things(including fast forward at KSC) then come back from time to time to let it catch-up.

[RedDwarfIV]

2 hours ago, Terwin said:

You can always send a rover with a Klaw and additional drills/power.

Also, as it will use the stock catch-up mechanic, you can also do other things(including fast forward at KSC) then come back from time to time to let it catch-up.

Since I only seem to have small resource drills unlocked, I could send more of those and have my engineer attach them. He'd have to fly all the way from the refinery site, though.

I've been letting it do that while I work on my Minmus fuel refinery. Which I have also been having problems with, but that's a Ground Construction issue, not MKS.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by RedDwarfIV

[JamesonKerbal]

On 2/5/2022 at 3:05 AM, Chilkoot said:

Gonna flip over to sandbox and try exactly what you've outlined above, then find a way to ramp up to sustainable production in a way I can "afford".

What I'm focussing on for the next iteration of the walkthrough is:

• Produce just enough material kits, food, water, oxygen at Kerbin to bootstrap production on Minmus
• Focus on producing 5 Specialized Parts (for 1 3.75m hopper), 1 each of Synthetics/Alloys/Robotics/Electronics (in that order) to provide materials for hoppers in Minmus orbit
• Once Minmus shipyard is self-sustaining, double the production at Minmus so stuff can be exported to Kerbin Orbit
• Once Kerbin shipyard is self-sustaining, disconnect the Minmus shipyard from the depot and export those resources to Kerbin Orbit
• Use those extra resources to bootstrap Mun shipyard

The basic ratio of consumption of building materials is in the ballpark of:

• 100,000 Material Kits
• 100 Specialized Parts
• 100 Synthetics
• 10 Alloys
• 1 Robotics
• 1 Electronics
• 1 Prototypes

So the biggest jumps towards self-sustainability are to produce those resources in that order.

The production required from Minmus will then be the minimum required to run 1 x 3.75m hopper of each building material (but not Prototypes) and (for establishment) 3 hoppers of Material Kits:

1. Material Kits x 25 (15 + 5 + 5)
   • Chemicals x 25 (1 x 25)
   • Metals x 50 (2 x 25)
   • Polymers x 50 (2 x 25)
2. Specialized Parts x 5
   • Refined Exotics x 10 (2 x 5)
     • Exotic Minerals x 20 (2 x 2 x 5)
     • Rare Metals x 30 (3 x 2 x 5)
   • Silicon x 15 (3 x 5)
3. Alloys x 6 (1 + 5)
   • Metals x 6 (1 x 6)
   • Rare Metals x 24 (4 x 6)
4. Synthetics x 6 (1 + 5)
   • Exotic Minerals x 24 (4 x 6)
   • Polymers x 6 (1 x 6)
5. Electronics x 1
   • Material Kits x 5
   • Synthetics x 5
6. Robotics x 1
   • Alloys x 5
   • Material Kits x 5

These numbers along with a "ready reckoner" spreadsheet will be going into the next iteration of the walkthrough. The Ready Reckoner will allow you to enter the WOLF resources harvestable from a particular biome, and translate that into how much of which resource to fabricate, making sure to reserve resources for other fabrication lines (so for example reserving about half the Exotic Minerals to split between Synthetics and Specialized Parts). It also allows you to specify the import of some resources eg: polymers to make Synthetics from abundant local exotic minerals, so you can make better use of limited route capacity. Thus instead of exporting 60 exotic minerals to combine with 15 polymers elsewhere to produce 15 synthetics, you import 15 polymers and manufacture 15 synthetics on-site, which only consumes 15 route capacity. While route capacity is cheap, my route building rover is slow and I am impatient.

Exporting food, water and oxygen from Kerbin significantly reduces the up front cost of this first Minmus expansion because you can start producing the materials you need to build the life support systems to make Minmus independent. Resource extraction first, life support second.

Putting all the above together, for my specific save game I can put my first lander on Greater Flats and start producing 15 Material Kits and 1 Alloys straight away, then land a second lander at Lesser Flats to produce 6 synthetics (which exported back to Greater Flats gives me 1 Synthetics and 1 Electronics). Then a third expansion to Midlands provides the materials required to start producing Specialised Parts,  then the fourth expansion has Minmus self-sufficient in production and starting to export to Kerbin. After that there will be a bunch of expansions to extract all the available resources of interest (notably rare metals, exotic minerals, substrate). I gather everything in Greater Flats (a hub-and-spoke approach), combine what I can into Sp/Alloys/Synthetics/Electronics/Robotics in approximately 5:1:1:1:1 ratio before exporting to Kerbin (along with heaps of Fuel). Note that Material Kits production is simply maximised using all left-over Chemicals, Polymers and Metals. You can never have enough Material Kits.

Apologies for the essay.

[JamesonKerbal]

@Chilkoot also in a career game you should be able to make money by bringing the stuff you're building back to KSC and recovering the vehicle.

Per unit mass or even per unit, Robotics are the most valuable short of Prototypes (but Prototypes are the end-game of this entire production chain). You can directly make money by plonking down a tiny first depot that just produces alloys, export those all the way back to Kerbin KSC,  then recover that vessel. For example if you route the resources back to Kerbin orbital shipyard you can bring the harvested resources back to KSC using the SSTO that you launched the bootstrap resources with.

Another option is to set up a route from Kerbin Orbit to KSC, then at KSC you'd have a WOLF Harvesting Hopper connected to a Kontainer configured for Alloys (in the first instance), then "launch" a new Kontainer, transfer the Alloys to this new Kontainer, then recover that "vessel". That import process will eventually provide the funds to buy the next round of resources required to expand infrastructure on Minmus.

So start off with producing 1 alloys, raise funds for expansion with those alloys, then advance the infrastructure to produce robotics, then import those instead of alloys.

I'll see if I can modify the Minmus portion of my walkthrough to at least include the necessary infrastructure in a sidebar to help people think about financing an industrial expansion in career mode.

Edited February 7, 2022 by JamesonKerbal
alloys are produced not extracted

[RedDwarfIV]

Me again. The Planetary Logistics is working fine, I now have 30k units of Water sitting in the tank at my main Minmus base.

Now I'm confused as to how I generate Supplies. I have a Duna Agricultural Module and a Tundra Agricultural Module. Both are set to Agriculture (S). I have water, I have Substrate, I have electricity. I have an empty Supplies container. I have a Scientist sitting in the Duna module. But my Supplies resource is refusing to go up.

Do I need more Scientists/Farmers? 

One other issue is that I had my engineer set the Tundra module to Agriculture (S), but the right-click control still says "Activate Cultivate (S)".  It says above that in the right-click menu that it is set to Agriculture. Am I missing something?

[Kerbals_of_Steel]

2 hours ago, RedDwarfIV said:

Me again. The Planetary Logistics is working fine, I now have 30k units of Water sitting in the tank at my main Minmus base.

Now I'm confused as to how I generate Supplies. I have a Duna Agricultural Module and a Tundra Agricultural Module. Both are set to Agriculture (S). I have water, I have Substrate, I have electricity. I have an empty Supplies container. I have a Scientist sitting in the Duna module. But my Supplies resource is refusing to go up.

Do I need more Scientists/Farmers? 

One other issue is that I had my engineer set the Tundra module to Agriculture (S), but the right-click control still says "Activate Cultivate (S)".  It says above that in the right-click menu that it is set to Agriculture. Am I missing something?

Firstly, do you have fertilizer onboard?

Secondly (and please double check this one because I'm not 100% sure myself) I think Agriculture actually produces Organics, not Supplies. You don't need Organics until later in the game when you are making other things.

 

KoS

[RedDwarfIV]

6 minutes ago, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

Firstly, do you have fertilizer onboard?

Secondly (and please double check this one because I'm not 100% sure myself) I think Agriculture actually produces Organics, not Supplies. You don't need Organics until later in the game when you are making other things.

 

KoS

There is fertiliser, as it's needed for the Agroponics systems already used to keep the base at a steady level of Supplies. (That reminds me, I need to launch a processing unit to generate more Fertiliser from the minerals and gypsum...)

I've tried it with the Duna and Tundra modules set to Cultivate and to Agriculture. Neither produced Supplies.

[modus]

@RedDwarfIVDo you have machinery?

Edited February 9, 2022 by modus

[RedDwarfIV]

3 hours ago, modus said:

@RedDwarfIVDo you have machinery?

Yes, the Tundra and Duna modules each have at least 100 Machinery.

[modus]

hmm. 

Not really sure if this is up to date, but in the Wiki for the Duna module, under 'crew', it says: "Max 2, must include Pilot".

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Parts-(Duna-Series)

maybe you can try that?

[RedDwarfIV]

1 hour ago, modus said:

hmm. 

Not really sure if this is up to date, but in the Wiki for the Duna module, under 'crew', it says: "Max 2, must include Pilot".

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Parts-(Duna-Series)

maybe you can try that?

Ah. That would explain it. I have two pilots on the base, one of them doing nothing. I'll try shifting them to the Ag module. Thanks!

[cactuscrazez]

What does the bleeding edge version have that the version here doesnt have? The main reason I want this mod is because I want to be able to build stuff and launch rockets from off kerbin. IIRC Global construction was removed a while back. Does this mod still have in situ building? Im a bit confused 

[JamesonKerbal]

9 hours ago, cactuscrazez said:

Does this mod still have in situ building?

The Bleeding Edge version has orbital ship yards which gives you the ability to build ships in orbit, though the mechanism is different to the old DIY pack + workshop approach. You just provide the materials and the ship pops into existence near the shipyard. Building things on the ground is gone for now.

[GDorn]

My pulse drills have no mechanism for starting them.  I launched with them configured for MetallicOre, grappled an asteroid, and nada.  There's also no button for changing their type (to switch back to Ore in case that was the problem) despite having the MaterialKits and SpecializedParts on-board to do so.  Is this a mod conflict, a bug, or just normal behavior and I'm missing something?

No amount of retracting/deploying or reloading saves fixes it.  The vehicle has no Engineers on board, but I inferred from the description that that isn't needed for the `-A` variants.

Edited February 10, 2022 by GDorn
ETA engineers note