BDArmory missiles keep missing

[NFunky]

Hey guys, I've only just started messing around with BD Armory and it looks really cool.  The only thing is, all the videos I can find online are about combat in the atmosphere, and I'm more interested in exoatmospheric fights.  I'm thinking classic space battles meet real physics kind of thing, so no need for realistic scenarios or special space weapons.

While experimenting, I sent up a couple craft to test out short range missile combat in orbit.  They were easily able to lock on with radar at about 15 km, but when I fired AIM-120s at the first target, they all missed, no matter what the range I fired at.  I didn't even bother to try the sidewinders, as I figured they'd only home on a ship making a burn or otherwise heating up.

So does anyone have any experience with BD Armory in space?  Why are the missiles missing?  What weapons DO work in space, and are should I be using a different type of missile than air-to-air for space-to-space purposes?

Also, I had a theory about the 120s.  I thought they used reaction torque and engine gimballing, but if they are only using control surfaces, that would explain why they are unable to guide properly.  Is this right?

[luizopiloto]

@NFunky , your thread was moved into the right forum section.

[DoctorDavinci]

To answer your question ... 

The weapons in BDAc are for use in the atmosphere ... Air to air missiles are desgned for use in the air, not in space (hence the term air to air ... in space no one can hear you scream there is no 'air')

Space battles are currently out of the scope of BDAc 

There are weapon packs for BDAc such as future weapons, however I am unsure if any contain missiles meant to be used outside of an atmosphere

[DarkOwl57]

Well ACTUALLY I have debunked 2 things on this thread

1) The Sidewinders DO actually home in on engines; Burning or not.

2) There is actually a BDA missile that is good for space; the HE-KV1 I think. It's got thrust vectoring and it can move around in Space or any other area with low gravity. 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

2 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

2) There is actually a BDA missile that is good for space; the HE-KV1 I think. It's got thrust vectoring and it can move around in Space or any other area with low gravity. 

Except for the fact that the HEKV  is broken and has been broken since at least KSP 1.0.5

[DarkOwl57]

1 minute ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Except for the fact that the HEKV  is broken and has been broken since at least KSP 1.0.5

?

[DoctorDavinci]

3 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

1) The Sidewinders DO actually home in on engines; Burning or not.

Yes they do ... when inside of an atmosphere but not in space

4 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

2) There is actually a BDA missile that is good for space; the HE-KV1 I think. It's got thrust vectoring and it can move around in Space or any other area with low gravity. 

It was designed for use in space, however we have not updated its code to make it work ... it has been labelled as broken since before 1.0.5 and will likely remain that way for the forseeable future

[DarkOwl57]

Just now, DoctorDavinci said:

It was designed for use in space, however we have not updated its code to make it work ... it has been labelled as broken since before 1.0.5 and will likely remain that way for the forseeable future

Well whenever I've tried it in the atmosphere it's just fine! maybe I should check up on it...

1 minute ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Yes they do ... when inside of an atmosphere but not in space

Really? When I tested it it hit the target SSTO with ease

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

3 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

?

Broken  :  to become inoperative or to malfunction, as through wear or damage: or in this case code changes concerning missiles and detached craft

https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BDArmory/issues/25

[DarkOwl57]

Well then... Weird..

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

The above replies are correct in that there are no missiles from the mod that work in space (well, other than going in a straight line if you don't lock them I guess). Considering what you said you were doing however, it might be significant that guns and lasers seem to work quite fine in space.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

I believe the guy you need to speak to is @panzer1b who's the only one I know actively creating battles in space, he's very likely to some useful input

[adsii1970]

1 hour ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Yes they do ... when inside of an atmosphere but not in space

It was designed for use in space, however we have not updated its code to make it work ... it has been labelled as broken since before 1.0.5 and will likely remain that way for the forseeable future

Most unfortunate. It was my favorite way to get rid of space junk. Just out of curiosity and not meaning to start anything by this question - is there any reason this one has not been updated?

[DoctorDavinci]

20 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

Most unfortunate. It was my favorite way to get rid of space junk. Just out of curiosity and not meaning to start anything by this question - is there any reason this one has not been updated?

Mainly this is due to the BDAc team just getting the mod to work in 1.2 but also due to the immense amount of work that has been going on in preparation for the refactor of the BDAc code

Baha originally labeled it as broken due to the HKEV not fitting in with his original concept of where he wanted to take BDA ... the reason he left it in is so that it wouldn't break anyones crafts that happened to have one attached

Edited January 16, 2017 by DoctorDavinci

[adsii1970]

8 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Mainly this is due to the BDAc team just getting the mod to work in 1.2 but also due to the immense amount of work that has been going on in preparation for the refactor of the BDAc code

Baha originally labeled it as broken due to the HKEV not fitting in with his original concept of where he wanted to take BDA ... the reason he left it in is so that it wouldn't break anyones crafts that happened to have one attached

Thank you for the explanation. I know that it takes a lot of work to revamp an older mod and make it work in 1.2 I do appreciate all you do bringing back life to these old mods. I had no idea why it was ever dropped in the first place, but knowing it didn't fit Baha's concept for his mod does make sense. Is it on the eventual "we'll get around to fixing it" list?

[DoctorDavinci]

I will refer you to the issues list on @Papa_Joe's github repository for BDAc

This is where we keep track of bugs and enhancement requests

https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BDArmory/issues

Edited January 16, 2017 by DoctorDavinci

[NFunky]

Thank you all for the replies.  I couldn't seem to find answers in any past threads, so this has been very enlightening.  I've got a few questions in light of this information.

 

Is it worth searching/waiting for a mod with vacuum capable missiles?  Is anyone working on that?

 

And, can I make my own missiles using the 'missile guidance module' and the 'small high explosive warhead'?  Could I just attach them to a small rocket of some sort?

 

Finally, are there any mods whatsoever, that I may not have heard of, that are more focused on space warfare?

[DoctorDavinci]

31 minutes ago, NFunky said:

Is it worth searching/waiting for a mod with vacuum capable missiles?  Is anyone working on that?

Yes, it is worth searching as new mods pop up all the time but can get lost in the multitude of currently maintained mods for KSP

33 minutes ago, NFunky said:

And, can I make my own missiles using the 'missile guidance module' and the 'small high explosive warhead'?  Could I just attach them to a small rocket of some sort?

Very possible, although you would need to include RCS or some sort of directional control as you will have no control of the direction of travel (the vector) of the modular missile ... the way a missile will behave is completely different in orbit as compared to in atmosphere ... Remember that in orbit, or outside of any atmosphere for that matter, the missile will not have the benefit of it's stabilizer fins which means no matter how hard it tries to turn, it isn't going anywhere as it takes the air affecting the control surfaces to change the missiles orientation (vector)

40 minutes ago, NFunky said:

Finally, are there any mods whatsoever, that I may not have heard of, that are more focused on space warfare?

Personally I am not sure of this ... Perhaps there are those in the community that can direct you to what you are looking for, however I myself do not know of anything that is directly related to what you are looking for except for Future Weapons, of which I'm not sure if it even has any missiles

[NFunky]

Thank you so much for the answers!  Everything is making sense.

 

I had a thought, and was wondering if it's at all doable.  I'm something of a rookie, but I know the basics of editing cfg files.  I was wondering if I could insert a simple reaction wheel module into the cfg for the AIM-120 to allow it to steer without air?  Would the weapon guidance even use the reaction wheel?

 

Also, I've built a nice little modular missile, but the guidance does not seem to work.  I can't tell exactly what's happening, but the missiles fly in the right direction, but miss the target.  They then continue to perform turn-around maneuvers to try again, but still never hit it.

[RandomGuy1824]

It is possible that the missile can't turn tight enough to hit the target. If not it might be a strange bug. I have also been expirementing with modular missiles and I can't figure how they target the enemy, is it like radar or something like that?

[Ultimate Steve]

Or maybe the missile is going so fast that it phases through the target.