[1.8.x] Kerbal Foundries -- Continued - Tracks, Wheels, and Gear

[kcs123]

14 hours ago, ronin95 said:

I doubt it since its not my first time modding kerbal and ive had this mod working in the past but ill give it a read. Its in gamedata and the build tab appears for the mod and nothing is in it except the one part.

Log is here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pTzLAOS8cRo2II8xxYVWOSgtmN4PlcPz/view?usp=sharing

Belive me, even veteran players can found useful tips in that thread, it is easy to create silly mistake on install, even if it is not your first time installing mod.

I didn't go trough all log file yet to pinpoiont exact culprit, but I have already found several issues on the begining of log file.

1st issue is that you are using moded game over steam install folder.  Sooner or later steam verification can screw your installs on updates. To avoid this, rather keep stock game clean on install and once you have only stock game and stock DLCs in steam folder and nothing else, copy that to some other folder. You can have multiple KSP instances without issues except maybe for HDD storage space.

That way, even on regular KSP updates your moded KSP instance will reamain stable (as much as KSP and mods can be stable). After official KSP update, steam will rewrite your files and there is good chance that some mods would not work properly on first day of KSP update.

In log you have several lines like this one:

Cannot create config from file 'D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\WarpPlugin\Patches\EnginePlacement.cfg'.

Depending on mod, it may or may not be issue to prevent some mods working properly and it may interfere with other mods too, to not work as intended. For some mods such thing may be harmless, for some mods not, though.

2nd issue is that it seems that you have several instances of miniAVC installed. That is known that can cause issue on few latest KSP releases. It can prevent other mod plugins to load properly. Try to install zeroAVC to remove those legacy miniAVC that can cause issue.

ADDON BINDER: Cannot resolve assembly: MiniAVC-V2.XmlSerializers, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null

MiniAVC-V2 -> Assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\EasyVesselSwitch\Plugins\MiniAVC-V2.dll

Above is new AVC version, but you also have older AVC plugin:

MiniAVC -> Executing: MiniAVC - 1.4.0.2
 (Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)
MiniAVC -> Assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\FShangarExtender\MiniAVC.dll

You also heve a lots of MM patches from "000_FilterExtensions", deleting some part nodes etc. I can't say what was intended and what not as I didn't used that mod, so take that with a grain of salt, I may be wrong on that one that can cause issues.

I have found some possible conflict between filter extensions and BDArmory mod:

[Filter Extensions 3.2.0.3]: BDArmory: No subcategories valid, abandon instantiation of BDArmory

Sorry, I have run out of available time to search further, if I'm on your place, I would create clean KSP install trough steam. Copied that clean KSP instance elsewhere on HDD and install mods over that instance. Backup your savegame files before doing that, of course. After that install zeroAVC to remove all deprecated miniAVC plugins that are bundled with some mods that you are using.

I suspect that Filter extensions is in conflict with KSP foundries and some other mods, but I'm not certain due to lack of time to inspect logs more thoroughly. Maybe somene with even more experience with reading logs and mods that you are using can help you better.

 

[ronin95]

I appreciate the help. Ill try the zeroAVC and moving it to another directory. TBH I didn't expect another update then they announced another update. 

2 hours ago, kcs123 said:

I have found some possible conflict between filter extensions and BDArmory mod

As for the BDarmory thing I'm confused as to how that's an issue as I'm not currently running the mod and it has never been on this instance of ksp. I do wonder if the filter extensions mod may be acting up in general since there have been parts in questionable places that technically fit but didn't make sense to me and some parts not showing up unless I go the mods tab.

 

You figured it out. The filter extension mod was the culprit. Thanks

Edited June 12, 2021 by ronin95

[kcs123]

4 hours ago, ronin95 said:

You figured it out. The filter extension mod was the culprit. Thanks

You are welcome. I have found later on some more possible issues. That might be sorted out after removing miniAVC, but you should check log again after sorting out other discovered issues.

[HighLogic]: =========================== Scene Change : From MAINMENU to SPACECENTER (Async) =====================
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

Unloading 2 Unused Serialized files (Serialized files now loaded: 9)
Uploading Crash Report
NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Renderer.set_enabled(UnityEngine.Renderer,bool)
  at scatterer.SkySphereContainer.Cleanup () [0x0000e] in <8a7e85ab53e34a8ea72ad172e9ac0f8f>:0 
  at scatterer.SkyNode.Cleanup () [0x00075] in <8a7e85ab53e34a8ea72ad172e9ac0f8f>:0 
  at scatterer.ProlandManager.OnDestroy () [0x0000e] in <8a7e85ab53e34a8ea72ad172e9ac0f8f>:0 
  at scatterer.ScattererCelestialBodiesManager.Cleanup () [0x00027] in <8a7e85ab53e34a8ea72ad172e9ac0f8f>:0 
  at scatterer.Scatterer.OnDestroy () [0x00056] in <8a7e85ab53e34a8ea72ad172e9ac0f8f>:0 
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Logger:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

I think that one comes from scatterer mod, so better double check if you have installed that properly and/or maybe scatterer is in conflict with some other mod you have installed.

Beside kerbal foundries, there were parts from some other mods that were also hidden/uninstalled. This piece of log tells me that:

Contract Log: ContractDefs prebuilt craft at D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program/KSP_x64_Data/../GameData/Squad/Contracts/PreBuiltCraft/RoverContract/Contract Rover 1a.craft invalid.
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

Vessel Contract Rover 1a is missing part roverBody.v2
Vessel Contract Rover 1a is missing part externalTankRound
Vessel Contract Rover 1a is missing part domeLight1
Vessel Contract Rover 1a is missing part longAntenna
Vessel Contract Rover 1a is missing part stripLight1
Vessel Contract Rover 1a is missing part roverWheel2

and several other crafts that were "live" in your kerbal universe with similar issues of missing parts.

If you still have that nullreference error in log from scatterer after reinstall, bring new log file in scatterer thread. It would be offtopic for kerbal foundries, but good example for others to help themselfs if someone encounter similar problem.

[Dirt_Merchant]

Sorry if this has been addressed, but is there any way to make this play well with parallax mod?

[wreckreation]

First, awesome mod!  Have used it since 1.8.

Just wanted to report Foundry wheels behave oddly in 1.12.1.  I realize this will probably be fixed when the author updates the mod, but thought the info may prove useful.

Specifically, when the weight of the vehicle is high, or spring tension is set high, the wheels bounce and shimmy, even when the vehicle is not moving.  Increasing the damping doesn't seem to help that much. 

The really interesting thing is that reverting to the SPH, even to lower the weight or spring tension, doesn't fix it.   Once the wheels are 'broken' in this manner, they stay broken.  Only scrapping the 'broken' wheels and replacing them with fresh ones from the parts list will eliminate the erratic movement (assuming you also reduced weight and/or spring tension).  

In fact, the 'broken' wheels misbehave in the SPH as well; if you remove the wheels and try to reattach them, they either disappear, or 'attach' a good distance away from the attachment point.  Again, scrapping them and putting on 'fresh' ones from the parts list cures the problem.

I expect this will be fixed in time.  Just wanted to give a heads up.

EDIT: I've now found similar behavior in stock wheels, specifically the Rovemax XLs.  If you place enough weight on them, they spontaneously bounce around as well and won't stop.  (I did have to toughen them up with a module manager patch so they could take the weight without popping.)   However, they *aren't* 'broken' in the SPH; no need to scrap and replace.  If you reduce the weight of the vehicle and re-launch with the same wheels, they behave normally.  So they don't seem to be 'broken' the way the Foundry wheels get.

Hope this helps.  Cheers.

Edited July 20, 2021 by wreckreation
new, additional information

[TOMMY (JEB 2.0)]

i dont want to sound like a annoying amazing person but id like to know if there's any updates related to this mod (ie. in progress bugfixes)

[lekkimsm2500]

On 8/13/2021 at 6:40 PM, TOMMY (JEB 2.0) said:

i dont want to sound like a annoying amazing person but id like to know if there's any updates related to this mod (ie. in progress bugfixes)

You're far from the only one wanting to know if this will get  1.12.2'd.

I've been missing adjustable landing gear for so damn long. They really were a treat to have.

[Shadowmage]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:08 AM, lekkimsm2500 said:

You're far from the only one wanting to know if this will get  1.12.2'd.

I've been missing adjustable landing gear for so damn long. They really were a treat to have.

Is it not working under the recent KSP versions?

Never hurts to give it a try...

[Manul]

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Is it not working under the recent KSP versions?

Landing gear does, Kf Long Track does't. In 1.12.1 it oscillates with increasing amplitude until the vehicle falls apart.

[MedicRules41]

1.12.2 here, with a fair number of other mods installed, not seeing any issues. Threw together a silly-looking vehicle just for testing; tracks and wheels both seem stable, no unusual oscillations.

Notably, the MechJeb rover autopilot will apply power, but does not steer KF wheels (or tracks). Within +- 3 degrees of the waypoint bearing, MJ will attain the desired speed; outside of that cone it seems to linger around 3 m/sec.

I don't mean to pester, but would like to make a request: now that 1.12.2 is here and we have a (presumably-)stable long-term codebase, would it be possible to get a functional set of patches for the stock wheels?

https://i.imgur.com/yNTahQq.png

https://i.imgur.com/phCwKYM.png

Not too good with imgur, so not sure why the embedding doesn't work, but there are some screenies of the test vehicle and the autopilot.

[Shadowmage]

8 hours ago, MedicRules41 said:

I don't mean to pester, but would like to make a request: now that 1.12.2 is here and we have a (presumably-)stable long-term codebase, would it be possible to get a functional set of patches for the stock wheels?

Honestly one of the most reasonable requests I've seen posted.

I did have a set of patches for the stock wheels put together at some point, but hadn't been updated in quite some time  --  https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/tree/master/KerbalFoundries-Patches

Probably a good starting point; unless the stock parts have changed, the existing patches should likely continue to work.  There were definitely a couple that needed some tweaks though.
 

I'm not sure I'll personally have time to get too involved in the near future (life and work still occupying my time), but hopefully the link above can provide something functional in the interim (or possibly provide others a start on the conversion).

[Daniel Prates]

9 hours ago, MedicRules41 said:

1.12.2 here, with a fair number of other mods installed, not seeing any issues.

Same here, seems to be working fine with 1.12.2

[Colonizor48]

It works okay with 1.12 albiet the friction of some wheels seems to be wierd. But still im using bdarmory and a tone of other mods.

[desepticon]

Seems to be a missing texture for the hover part's "exhaust". I just get pink rings.

[Spike88]

On 8/26/2021 at 5:09 AM, desepticon said:

Seems to be a missing texture for the hover part's "exhaust". I just get pink rings.

The part probably pulls it’s texture from a stock part to save on RAM. Squad changed the hierarchy of some stock parts, so the part is trying to pull from the old location. But without looking at the part, this is just my hypothesis.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Spike88

[Araym]

On 8/26/2021 at 11:09 AM, desepticon said:

Seems to be a missing texture for the hover part's "exhaust". I just get pink rings.

 

On 9/1/2021 at 10:57 PM, Spike88 said:

The part probably pulls it’s texture from a stock part to save on RAM. Squad changed the hierarchy of some stock parts, so the part is trying to pull from the old location. But without looking at the part, this is just my hypothesis.

There are some various parts from KF that fail to show their textures, even if they are actually in KF's Assets folder.
(Folding and Extending landing leg, for example)

 

EDIT:

I forgot to install TextureUnlimited. MY BAD
That could be also the issue related to @desepticon too

Edited September 9, 2021 by Araym

[desepticon]

16 hours ago, Araym said:

EDIT:

I forgot to install TextureUnlimited. MY BAD
That could be also the issue related to @desepticon too

I have that installed on my game.

[viperwolf]

This a great mod, bc nothing really adds wheels. I have issues with one of the stock wheels on my rover builds. They shake like they are having a spasm. These work great and they are SCALED.  I try and use the least amount of mods I can, but these wheels for rovers are great. 

I did not see any conflicts concerning the mods I have

-Tweakscale- I know is not needed for this

-Rocket Sound Enhancement

-Kerbal Reuseability Expansion

-Restock- not restock plus

 

[dieDoktor]

Hi there! I really like how the adjustable landing gear look in this mod but I was wondering if you can point out to me how to edit their maximum loads (via part files)? Right now they're all set to have a max load of 5(tons I think?) and obviously I can scale the wheels but in order to make them support some of my larger designs they get a bit silly. It would be nice if I could fiddle with some config files to make the larger wheel sets have a much higher default load.

Thanks!

[Daniel Prates]

6 hours ago, dieDoktor said:

Hi there! I really like how the adjustable landing gear look in this mod but I was wondering if you can point out to me how to edit their maximum loads (via part files)? Right now they're all set to have a max load of 5(tons I think?) and obviously I can scale the wheels but in order to make them support some of my larger designs they get a bit silly. It would be nice if I could fiddle with some config files to make the larger wheel sets have a much higher default load.

Thanks!

 

I dont really know how your design is but the more realistic aproach would be to add more gears, perhaps another pair or two so that the weight is distributed amongst them. Sure beats the rather gamey aproach of going into the configs and just doubling the weight limits.

[dieDoktor]

4 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

 

I dont really know how your design is but the more realistic aproach would be to add more gears, perhaps another pair or two so that the weight is distributed amongst them. Sure beats the rather gamey aproach of going into the configs and just doubling the weight limits.

I appreciate the wisdom of going for the more realistic approach, but it still would be nice to have, for example, the extra large ALG wheels have a significantly higher max load by default since that makes a certain logical sense to me.

Of course, I wouldn't bother you if I hadn't already made some attempt to do this on my own, but the only relevant parts in the part's files didn't seem to do anything when I poked at it.  So that brings me back here and wondering what am I supposed to edit to do what I want.

Thanks!

[Daniel Prates]

2 hours ago, dieDoktor said:

, but the only relevant parts in the part's files didn't seem to do anything when I poked at it

 

Well you see that's weird, the weight should be distributing and wheel stress had to be decreasing. Share us some pictures, wheel stress can be caused by other factors, not only total overall weight - also, tweakscaling things all over the place isnt good. It works fine for size and fuel quantities (blunt things, lets call it) but more complex values like thrust, isp etc., and so also wheelstress, those scale weirdly. It is always preferable to use more of the intended part that to just double its size.

Airplane/spaceplane  is a cool subject, lets discuss your case further! Share some pictures!

[Shadowmage]

2 hours ago, dieDoktor said:

I appreciate the wisdom of going for the more realistic approach, but it still would be nice to have, for example, the extra large ALG wheels have a significantly higher max load by default since that makes a certain logical sense to me.

Of course, I wouldn't bother you if I hadn't already made some attempt to do this on my own, but the only relevant parts in the part's files didn't seem to do anything when I poked at it.  So that brings me back here and wondering what am I supposed to edit to do what I want.

Thanks!

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/blob/master/GameData/KerbalFoundries/Parts/ALG-Large.cfg#L214

That is the line that controls the 'max load' of the wheel at its default scale, listed in....metric tons I believe (been awhile...).  Your actual load for that wheel should only  be 25-30% of that 'max' value to accommodate for driving forces -- the 'max' value is the point where the wheel starts to incur damage/starts to over-stress -- if it exceeds that max for too long, it will break.

Anyway, you can patch that value to increase it to whatever you want (an absurdly large 999999?).  Or patch that KSPWheelDamage module out entirely to remove the ability for it to break altogether.  Can also simply turn off damage/breaking in the mod settings IIRC (though that applies to all wheels).

[dieDoktor]

3 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

 

Well you see that's weird, the weight should be distributing and wheel stress had to be decreasing. Share us some pictures, wheel stress can be caused by other factors, not only total overall weight - also, tweakscaling things all over the place isnt good. It works fine for size and fuel quantities (blunt things, lets call it) but more complex values like thrust, isp etc., and so also wheelstress, those scale weirdly. It is always preferable to use more of the intended part that to just double its size.

Airplane/spaceplane  is a cool subject, lets discuss your case further! Share some pictures!

Hmm, learning! Didn't think wheelstress would be in that second category haha.  In any case, it doesn't help that the OPT mod I'm using parts from to make real large planes is, well, real large; so it's all super heavy. It would have been nice to have the  mod include it's own wheels but oh well.

At the moment I'm kind of just screwing around with the new parts to get a feel for everything before starting a serious career save, so don't judge me too hard but here's One of my tests (40tons!) 

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/blob/master/GameData/KerbalFoundries/Parts/ALG-Large.cfg#L214

That is the line that controls the 'max load' of the wheel at its default scale, listed in....metric tons I believe (been awhile...).  Your actual load for that wheel should only  be 25-30% of that 'max' value to accommodate for driving forces -- the 'max' value is the point where the wheel starts to incur damage/starts to over-stress -- if it exceeds that max for too long, it will break.

Anyway, you can patch that value to increase it to whatever you want (an absurdly large 999999?).  Or patch that KSPWheelDamage module out entirely to remove the ability for it to break altogether.  Can also simply turn off damage/breaking in the mod settings IIRC (though that applies to all wheels).

Thanks! I'll have to play around with that for a little while since editing the file here doesn't change what the part description says is the max so it was a little confusing at first attempt. Don't know why I didn't think about turning off damage in the first place, oops.

[Daniel Prates]

54 minutes ago, dieDoktor said:

Hmm, learning! Didn't think wheelstress would be in that second category haha.  In any case, it doesn't help that the OPT mod I'm using parts from to make real large planes is, well, real large; so it's all super heavy. It would have been nice to have the  mod include it's own wheels but oh well.

At the moment I'm kind of just screwing around with the new parts to get a feel for everything before starting a serious career save, so don't judge me too hard but here's One of my tests (40tons!) 

 

I would like to see a lateral view of it with the CoM and the CoL shown; but right away I can see that four main gears, on a two on the front, two on the back arrangement, is troublesome as when you pitch to take off or when you are landing, you are bound to be not totally level for some moments, even if for mere split seconds. That being the case, for a few critical seconds all that weight is resting on two gears alone, it is no wonder they fail. See, it is all design. 

Try placing all four on the same alignment and see if it works; think about puting a 5th right on the middle just in case. Carefully bring it as close to the CoM as you can, then bring it back the other way a little bit from then nose; the steering wheel is not supposed to bear loads, the plane is just supposed to tilt to its side and not hit the ground, that's it: 95% of the weight has to sit on the main gear. But it wont work if, when you pull up to take off, two of them lift the ground and two dont and all the weight sit upon them and overload the gears!

 

If you open the part UI during flight, pin it and watch it during the takeoff or landing, the wheelstress meter will tell you when you are forcing the gears too much. I bet it is what I imagine. Tell me later if I got it right, it is bound to be something like that.

PS:  I know what you are thinking. What about those antonovs with 16 wheels, the b52 with its car-like arrangement etc? Well you see, those have wings with high incidence angles, their "wing pitch" is is super upward. When the plane speeds up, it lifts the ground all level-like, it doesnt suport itself alone on the last two poor pair of wheels. If you build a plane that has to "roll" the nose upward, that "bogey" arrangement design doesnt work.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Daniel Prates